Some people would argue that they're not, others that they are.
Both sides lack clear definitions on all terms, hence why this debate in particular won't go anywhere until people can discuss the terms they're supposed to argue with.
" A person who is born with XX chromosomes is biologically female, however, they may have the brain structure and chemistry of a male.
Their gender is male/lesbian. They think, dress, and act like a male because they have male brain structure and chemistry, even though they were born with a female reproductory system. "
a lesbian is quite literally a woman who likes women. Trans men are men, they can acknowledge being biologically female but since they are not women they cannot be lesbians. Idk why this is such a debatable topic all of a sudden, I guess words really are losing their meaning now huh
You're quite literally saying "Their gender is male but they are a lesbian" though?? Men cannot be lesbians, I promise you its not that hard of a concept to grasp
A female, by biological sex, who prefers women in a romantic relationship, has more male biological structure and male chemistry in their brain. They act as if they are more male than female. They are lesbians. Now, do you understand what I said?
What does it take for you to consider somebody a woman ? Do you think self-identifying as a woman is the only factor by which to base your assertions of that person ?
a trans man is a transgender man, and from what ive heard from several trans people "transsexual" is mostly just an outdated term meaning the same thing so, uh
So self identity is all that is required, okay.
You don't need to look at biology.
You don't need to look at their brain structures.
You don't need to look at how they're socialized and how they purport themselves in public.
You don't even need them to want to transition or change their appearance
biology and brain structure doesn't really have anything to do with being trans, though? all trans people also don't have the ability to transition for various reasons (such as money or personal safety), so while that one is definitely linked saying you can only be trans if you transition is a bit iffy
I am NOT going to go through the past 11 comments to repeat what I have already asked. If you want to just ignore what has been asked of you, so that we can have a reasonable discussion, if you want to claim that I've said something that I haven't, or that you've answered questions that you haven't, you've come to the wrong discussion.
"And around we go, again. I'm not even going to try to explain it. Biological sex =/= gender. Proven. Biologically proven.
Why some people still believe that the earth is flat, I just do not understand."
"I am NOT going to go through the past 11 comments to repeat what I have already asked." All you've done for the past 11 comments is repeating what you've said over and over and accusing me of "dodging questions" and misunderstanding, so if you have any other questions state them outright or drop it. Maybe drop the 'nice guy' act too, since you're clearly not that lol
Fair warning: we can have an open and honest discussion of these topics, here, as long as anyone is honest, answers questions asked of them, asks questions that are not rude, and is not abusive of anyone else. If you violate those common rules of dialogue, your comments will be deleted. Act poorly enough, and staff will deal with your behavior.
1) A transgender man is a person who is assigned female at birth - they have the sex organs of a female.
2) A transgender woman is a person who is assigned male at birth - they have the sex organs of a male.
3) While transgender and transsexual do overlap, they are NOT the same thing.
4) Transsexual people have a sexual identity that does not match their physical sex.
"So self identity is all that is required"? Yea, I cut the rest out. I'm going to guess that you mean for a person's gender identity. Other than for purposes of self-preservation, I'd have to go with how a person feels and acts. What else is there?
"Trans men are men, they can acknowledge being biologically female but since they are not women they cannot be lesbians."
"a trans man is a transgender man,"
A transgender man is biologically female. Ok. So, you are saying that someone who is biologically female cannot be a lesbian? Confused much?
Yea, I can talk like this, too. But, I don't wanna. It's really dumb how many peeps wanna lie about what someone else said, and then, when they get called out on it, just wanna bash the other person. And make up all kinda excuses for what their own probs are. Sorry (not) for not putting up it. Sorry (not) for trying to talk with peeps straight up.
If you aren't going to respond to my questions so that we can have a discussion, then do not post on my profile. This discussion will not devolve into an argumentum ad hominem. I will answer any question, from anyone, that I can, however, that will be at my discretion. I have shown you where your statements do not make sense, and I've repeated my questions. Address those, or leave. It's your choice.
Moe you stated that there are practically infinite number of genders, so tell me why I can't idetify as a God. I know you answered my question before, but that wasn't legitmate answear.
Because "G/d" isn't a gender. Gender's are recognized, and defined as, being along a spectrum of self-identified behaviors and emotions that lie along a range of male to female. It's like saying "Name a number", and someone wanting to claim that burgundy is a number. It doesn't make sense.
Honestly, I feel like this has become a full on flame-war. Like politics, subjects like this that could offend people shouldn't be talked about THIS much. Maybe we should just drop it before someone starts hating someone
You're a bit late becouse this had already happend. Plus it's not like I'm we're sending eachother death threats, we're just having a bit of an argument.
Of course, as long as we use the phrase "non-binary" as any gender that lies along the female-male spectrum, including agender, and genderfluid. That falls under the NIH and WHO definitions, too.
If you define "gender" as being a spectrum between the values man and woman, then by your own admission, lack of a gender cannot be part of said spectrum.
Try making a gradient between green and purple, you won't find any black or transparency in it, no matter how you set it up.
And if you say "Well agender is just outside the spectrum" then it undermines the notion you've been pushing for. It'd be just special pleading; You'd be ignoring how things can be outside of the spectrum while also saying it should be defined as one.
If we take it as a range of colors, I'd have to agree, but that's not how I see it as working. Because it's a biological range, if both ends affect it equally, then the middle ground should be neutral, I believe. I have to compare it more towards the balance of an acid with a base, where there is a middle, neutral ground.
I think it's much closer to a homeostatic function, like control of blood pH, as above. With the difference being that it is much more common for the values to be clustered at one end or the other of the range. Change the in utero hormonal balance, and the value gets shifted to one extent or another away from either end of the range. But it's not a simple 2 ended range.
Except it s. The spectrum is always between one thing and another. You can either be closer to male or female. Saying you're non-binary is the same as me saying I identify as a God. They both are outside the spectrum. If I can't idetify as a God, then other people can't idetify as non-binary.
pH is also a spectrum, or continuity. There are so many things in biology, chemistry, physics, etc., that have a range of values, where the middle value is 0 between multiple extremes.
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