Game Design Shaman Ability Tree Suggestion

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Note: Numbers in parentheses are related to the screenshot below to show their location.

This suggestion is to swap the location of the 'Haunting Memory'(3) and 'Hymn of Hate'(4) abilities in the ability tree for Shaman whilst also making a slight change to Hymn of Hate. I'll explain the change first, then the reasoning. In addition to swapping these 2 abilities, Hymn of Hate should no longer require Mask of the Lunatic to be active. Also, Hymn of Hate should no longer require Mask of the Lunatic to be learnt in order to learn Hymn of Hate. Now I will explain the reasoning behind this idea. As of right now, as a DPS Ritualist Shaman, switching masks is something you generally don't want to do because Mask of the Lunatic gives you a 25% damage buff. Because of this, DPS Shaman currently has no efficient option to reset spell costs in many situations. Totem throwing a totem is not always something you want to do. Using Haul to reposition is not always something you want to do. Using Uproot resets your costs, yes, but requires it to be used multiple times in a row, which can be an issue when you're low on mana. The main spell in the rotation is obviously Aura, but when there's no other alternatives, you're forced into normal attacking. This is a problem because it forces Ritualist Shaman to play either Melee DPS or Hybrid. This is the main reason I am proposing this change. Now to explain how the change will work. Firstly, Haunting Memory(3) is an ability that obviously requires as mask to be active as that is part of its core functionality. Secondly, the location Hymn of Hate(4) is currently in, is in a route required to unlock Mask of the Fanatic, even though Hymn of Hate has no real reason to be tied to this line of the tree. Additionally, by switching these 2 abilities, the other archetypes would be able to make use of Hymn of Hate through the abilities Overseer(1) and Flaming Tongue(2) by using Uproot→Flaming Tongue conversion to reset totem duration. Also, when playing as an Acolyte Shaman in the current game, it is impossible to make use of Flaming Tongue if you also have Mask of the Lunatic taken. This means that as a healer, you're also locked out of the option to quickly reset your spell costs except by re-placing your Totem. Additionally, the effect of Hymn of Hate also applies healing to allies within the range of enemies that were killed by the initial Aura cast. This can be used to pseudo-increase the healing range and would be a very cool effect to have, and would make the complexity of mastering the class much more impressive. It would also allow healers to reset their totem duration by taking Overseer and using Uproot→Flame Tongue on it in the cases where you don't want to move the totem, but you also don't want to go stand on top of the totem and aim straight up/down because Mask of the Fanatic is preventing you from casting Flame Tongue, while also making your movement very slow.

 

i'm not sure what you want to do?
move hymn of hate to make it optional? Haunting Memory is basically useless outside of making Uproot nodes work (it's not for full Ritualist), Hymn of Hate requires MotL to activate and unlock so its position makes sense. Also, why remove its requirement of Mask of the Lunatic. As flawed as it may be, Hymn of Hate is designed for Ritualist. It is a Ritualist ability, not a Summoner or Acolyte ability. It makes zero sense to want Mask of the Lunatic to lose the one thing it needs to be unique just to buff Invigorating Wave and Sac Shrine.

 

This shouldn't be in Feedback. It should be in Suggestions. Read the posting information before posting.

 

It literally says in the "How to suggest" sticky:
"5. Feedback or suggestion? (if you want something that is in the game that is changed or you don't like something then you should use the Feedback Section)"

Ok, allow me to clarify. Hymn of Hate is not "designed for ritualist". It is an ability with a requirement that does a thing completely unrelated to it's requirement and it's place in the ability tree is purely there to gatekeep the rest of the tree if you don't take it. The reason I want to switch it with Haunting Memory and remove the requirement from Hymn of Hate is because by switching them, Hymn of Hate will no longer block access to the rest of the Ritualist section of the ability tree, and therefore doesn't need to be tied to it. Also, Haunting Memory is an ability that literally DOES NOT WORK if you don't have Mask of the Lunatic so allowing it to be in an arbitrarily open space like it is now makes no sense because you have no way to access it without entering through the Ritualist tree anyway. On the other hand, Aura is a default spell that can be used with all 3 archetypes and doesn't need to be locked behind Mask of the Ritualist because it doesn't need to require wearing a mask in order to do what it does; while Haunting Memory literally wouldn't work without wearing a mask because that is the whole schtick of the ability. Also, switching them would allow you to play a spellspam build using Acolyte while not being forced to arbitrarily take points in ritualist because Hymn of Hate effectively buffs your damage and healing by killing mobs and allowing the blood Aura to continue chaining. In addition, if you're playing with masks anyway, it would be better for a healer to have Mask of the Fanatic equipped when doing this because damage resist is important in the healer keeping themself alive, but they can't because Hymn of Hate requires Mask of the Lunatic to be equipped, unnecessarily. Regarding your comment about Haunting Memory being useless except for making uproot nodes work, no. The entire point of ritualist is to constantly be changing masks to gain damage bonuses and debuff the enemy. You are looking at things far too much 'as they are now' and not 'how they would be if this was changed'. Also, Hymn of Hate is not 'the 1 thing Mask of the Lunatic needs to be unique' because the only thing Mask of the Lunatic needs is itself. It literally buffs all your damage by 25%. There's no reason for it to have an extra benefactor as the main thing it does aside from buffing your damage is turn off Flaming Tongue and Uproot, which prevents you from being able to reset your totem with Overseer. The entire premise of how you're allowed to create your own utility which exists in every other class tree is simply not present in the Shaman tree and this change seeks to remedy that. While not a perfect solution, it's a start, and it's one that I think will help allow more variance in build paths. More options isn't a bad thing.

 

With this logic you can also say that Totemic Shatter and Frog Dance should lose their ties to Ritualist and moved away from the main path.

You really sound like you DON'T want a strict upgrade to aura to be forced. Which, is kinda weird.

The difference between Hymn of Hate and Haunting Memory is that HoH is needed for MotL's playstyle and HM is there so that you can activate Blood Sorrow in Ritualist-Acolyte set-ups. It's not for Ritualist. It basically does nothing for it.

And Aura isn't locked behind MotL, is it?
Each mask has an upgrade that enhances the spell it cost-reduces. Arguably, Hymn of Hate doesn't make any sense with Ritualist being the low AoE archetype and should be detached from Totem like Frog Dance.
Haunting Memory should not be required for Ritualist because it can LITERALLY PREVENT YOU FROM GAINING THE EFFECTS OF YOUR NEW MASK.

But your point that a Ritualist-specific upgrade should become a general upgrade when it is, I don't know, REALLY POWERFUL, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. (Mask of the Lunatic increases damage dealt to you as a downside.)
It's like saying Rebound and Double Totem should go in the Ritualist tree to make it easier for every archetype to get them. Just because an upgrade works well with another archetype does not mean it needs to be moved to a different archetype.

it is necessary for that exact reason, so that MotF Acolyte Aura healing is Not Possible.
Besides, Ritualists healing comes in the form of Regeneration-Totemic Shatter
I feel that you are looking through this from an Acolyte lense.

No, it isn't? The entire point of ritualist is mid-combat flexibility. You can go from a slow-fighter-healer tank to a highly mobile light damage playstyle, and then to basically normal shaman but more damage to you and enemies + Hymn of Hate. Haunting Memory has anti-synergy with that playstyle because it makes you either: 1. look away from all enemies while switching masks or 2. hit an enemy and not get the benefits and effects of your mask. I have a level 70 shaman that is entirely ritualist, and I don't use Haunting Memory because it is inconvenient. Making chants more viable would be the best way to encourage mask-switching, so you only want to wear a mask for the first few seconds.

Ritualist is good now, it would be worse after, and the only one who benefits would be Acolyte (and maybe Summoner for invigorating wave)

Hymn of Hate is MotL's specific spell upgrade for Aura. It makes the playstyle of MotL more unique than without. The damage is just that, a damage increase. MotL arguably messes with spells less than the other two, but Hymn of Hate was and is an ability for MotL.

All masks have this effect, as uproot is needed for the mask input.

There are a lot of options. Summoner + Acolyte is almost nonexistent, but Ritualists mixes well with both. (btw it's not meant to be super easier to max out an entire spell or build, you need to trade off points in one archetype to get another's ability) Storm Dance, MotL, maybe even MotF all mix with the other archetypes. Being in the middle, Ritualist can grab fun things like Blood Connection, Rebound, and Double (Triple) Totem. The only thing this would do is make it more annoying to play full Ritualist and strictly buff Acolyte (the most powerful already). By the way, Archer (especially the old one) and Mage trees are very much worse for combining archetypes. Boltslinger and Sharpshooter used to be next to each other, and Arcanist still has no way to trigger any of Lightbender's healing abilities.

Nope, it would mean every Ritualist would be forced to take an unnecessary trade-off ability designed for Acolyte, and every Acolyte would grab Hymn of Hate. Right now, if you want Hymn of Hate, you have to work for it as an Acolyte. You have to actually commit to it and create a hybrid tree. There's a choice between full Acolyte or MotL Acolyte. This suggestion would make full Acolyte strictly better. (You no longer need to take any ritualist for amazingly powerful buff)

If this is your stance, why take away Ritualist's option to NOT TAKE A VERY BAD FULL RITUALIST ABILITY.