Progression Remove the ID system (among other things).

Amen. I guess the bad suggestion of one is enough to wound the pride of many.

 

I know you're responding to the first post as-is, so fair enough on that one. But the title itself is misleading: Once I put it into words, I ended up not actually suggesting the removal of the ID system at all. Later on, I even ended up agreeing rare mobs should probably still drop things. Notice I just said drops, though. Caves, dungeons, secrets, and the like would, in my mind, still exist. There are at least 5 different caves within a 4 minute walk of Ragni. Would it really worsen the game all that much if you, just before reaching the spider forest, turned 90 degrees to the right, saw the cave with the cultists, and thought "Yeah, I probably need some stuff"?

And maybe you can answer this question: Why this attitude towards crafting? Like, presumably someone thought it would be a fun addition to the game at some point. Why else would they go through all this trouble?! Why all this resistance to a mechanic in the game when I'm not only not telling people to do it, I'm suggesting it be easier to do? So you think it's bad. Cool. Presumably someone can make it better, and I'm all for people just doing other stuff to get items.

Fair enough. What about mid-game resources? After level 30, you're not crafting by accident here.

Another guy had suggested somehow "splitting" items to add more slots. Trading the strength of the item for more utility. That said, late-game crafting has already selected a population of players that likes grinding. You don't make it to 120 because you hate sitting around trying to get stuff. I don't personally imagine early crafting to imagine much "poof" unless you're trying to make something ridiculous like stuffing 20 rotten flesh onto your weapon the moment you reach the level requirements.

Yeah, that's one of those things I was told about by another person on here. I knew Grind Spots existed, but to learn that it takes mere hours to max out your level was surprising to me.

How many do you think would get jeweling up if it required level 20? Like, sure, you can imagine some insane number for the late game, but even if at some point in the hypothetical future, CT randomly decided to make a quest like that, no sane Human Being would do it immediately with the first quest to introduce requirements. Hell, I can imagine Cook Assistant having a modest cooking requirement right off the bat. You walk to the bakery, help out with the first cake for cooking XP, then when it fails, you level up and can officially start the quest. Bam! Cooking requirement, free prof training, and maybe ingredients to make your first cooking craft that you can do right there in the shop. How scary would that be?

 

With the current state of crafting and the time it takes to level professions, adding a proffing requirement to quests anywhere above level 20 is a really bad idea. Now, if the time it takes to level professions was significantly lowered, we'd be having a different discussion. I'd still personally be against adding profession requirements, for reasons I'll explain later in this post, but it would be much more up to debate.

Here's why I don't think that profession requirements should ever be added, regardless of what improvements are made to professions in the future. This is a bit opinionated, but I'd like to think I have some good reasoning behind it.

Ultimately I think there are two ways to approach this debate. There's the in-universe perspective and the real-world perspective. The in-universe perspective would tell us that crafting requirements for quests make sense. Like you've said, something like Cook Assistant would make sense to have a cooking level requirement, or Dwarves and Doguns part III would logically require the player to have experience with jeweling. The real-world perspective, on the other hand, would tell us that adding profession requirements would not make sense. It would suggest that adding such a requirement reduces the player's ability to play the game how they want, which is an unfavorable outcome if you're prioritizing player enjoyment and retention. As someone who cares a lot about game design, I find the real-world perspective to be much more convincing, which is why I care so much about player freedom. The way I see it, if the player isn't having fun they're much more likely to blame the game for it if they're being led or encouraged to play in a certain way. If the game tells a player to do something and the player doesn't enjoy it, they're might quit. If the player decides to do something on their own and doesn't enjoy it, they're more likely to think "maybe that was a bad idea, I'll try doing something else". That's very important if you want players to keep playing your game. And making a game that can retain its players is far more important to me than a game that makes in-universe sense with its mechanics. That's why I think adding crafting requirements to quests, while it might make in-universe sense, is an overall bad idea.

 

i hope they remove IDs now idk how u guys dragged this out to a page 6

 

I'll be the first to say professions aren't the greatest feature of the game. But I have to wonder if they'd ever be fixed when the standard response to incorporating them is "No, they suck, and you don't have to do them anyway". Clearly someone thought they'd make the game better. The idea that they're not just optional, but toxic to the experience, suggests there's something to be changed. Putting aside the idea of a skilling hub in Durum isles, even modest requirements starting at the early levels would surely put some pressure to make levelling them, you know, enjoyable. Can you think of a better excuse to get people to use the thing organically and level up without sitting at a farm? This thread's had a bunch of good ideas so far; I'd love to hear more.

With a lot of "BUT HOW WILL I GET ITEMS?!" and calling OP dumb.

 

If this is implemented then we will have to grind 20+ hours for gear. That’s how we will get items. People don’t want to do that. End of story.

Sorry for posting this I just want to vent my frustration with this guy. Please do not keep this post alive.

 

Right. I don't know any other way to get items in this game. What are dungeons?

 

Right. The 8 armor pieces and 2 weapons per class. Those will provide lots of skill expression. Oh wait. I’ll also have to spend hours completing the dungeons with under leveled gear from the previous dungeon. Oh wait. If we add new armor prices to the shops then we will have to grind for HOURS to get replacements because one doesn’t fit our build.

Stop responding to him just let this die.

 

Shops, quests, and markets should be added to the game. I feel like just making people choose between grinding mobs and grinding dungeons for loot is bad game design.

 

The thing is you don’t really grind for loot. You can get usable gear in about 5 minutes from mobs. Forcing player to spend hours upon hours is not a good a replacement. Also where would we get the emeralds to buy our gear?

 

Right. You don't grind for loot. You don't do anything for loot. It falls on your lap. This is the issue I was pointing out.

Look, this late into the thread, I've got people simultaneously telling me they don't bother with mob loot, and people telling me it's the primary source of equipment. I'm done engaging this when nobody seems to agree whether it's actually doing any good.

Where do you get them now? Certainly not selling equipment. Most of your money probably comes from quest rewards and scrapped ingredients if you're not doing dungeons and raids.

 

Ok, erm, crafting isn't really mandated in Wynn, and for a good reason to. If you want that, play Craftsman, but otherwise, the crafting mandation makes no sense. This is just asking Wynn to become a 100% craft-based system, scrapping the literal YEARS of balancing and developing Wynn has gone through, all to make these few things set into place? It kind of is really detrimental to the entire staff team.

Furthermore, this makes very long-term grinding NEEDED, no matter what playstyle you are in. Like some have already said, this is against what Wynn is, and to be honest, you're basically describing Hypixel Skyblock.... Quests have requirements that make them painful, but they give you so minimal XP its terrible. There are resource hubs that warp you to places, which you have to grind even to let the Hypixel community stop bullying you. There is an insane long-term grind for items you need to get .05% more DPS, and people treat those like you need them.

In the end, this is highly detrimental to all of Wynn, including both the playerbase and the staff.

________________________________

Also........

LEVEL 120 CONFIRMED???????? /j

 

guys i think he's serious what do we do

 

It continues not to be mandated. The one thing I'm not getting is where anyone's forced to craft anything. Maybe you can help me see. Or did you not know you could actually get drops from other sources? Because, yeah, it turns out you get items from quests, there are caves in the game with loot in them, you can do raids and dungeons for loot, not to mention merchants. And if all else fails, there's a whole market you can buy from where other people sell things they've made/found.

 

There have been many suggestions on how to improve them and if I remember correctly, from the birth of the feature. Look through the subforum and I am sure you will find them. I also believe they were added mostly for endgame players to tryhard on something, but that might be just me misremembering. The issues are the time it takes to level them up, the resources you need to feasibly level up crafting and the mechanic itself being running around in a circle. Making it on an island will not make it better than besides Detlas. Profession-only quests, different gathering nodes, changing the xp curve, all those possibilities were suggested.

Also if I got it correctly, people will only do stuff that it "optimal" for them. Is that true though? Let's put myself on the table first. I am a casual player who focuses on the story and has finished the game multiple times, trying not to grind as much as possible. I remember that i travelled to Fruma gate at level 40 or so, because why the heck not. I got lost in the Jungle, Light Forest, old RoL of all places and many more locations as I progressed the game. Was that optimised? I didn't "finish the quest and move on". I also did SDs, boss altars, dungeons, sometimes also for gear. When I got to the endgame I travelled most of the map and still do.

Now let's look at Llevigar Docks, where new people introduce themselves. A lot of times I see "I love the story" or "I like exploring" in one or another way. They like the story that is from a fair portion optional. And that is a fraction of the playerbase. Do they optimise everything?

The last example can be more endgame, but I think it is still relevant. There is a discord for people who focus on the lore of the game. Not just quests or dungeons, the world. We went quiete a bit off the road to see it. Many theories are based on a random cave or weird ruin. Gale and Ohm, the old "Nether Beast", (now removed) Crypt of 100 Years, Fruma metheors, Ancient City in WynnEx D and many more I forgot about. Is that optimisation?

(if I sidetracked someone please forgive me, it is hard to remain focused after six pages of walls of text)

 

There is an incentive to craft items because they are much better. Crafting takes forever though and that’s why most players don’t do it.

 

You just said that forcing things would make them enjoyable, I quite personally think its the opposite.