Game Mechanics Remove Soul Points (v2)

Bumping this so salted adds it

 

bumping again and also use an experience pelnaty

 

Wow - long running thread. As a fairly new player, I already hate them and they are already causing me to stop playing when I want to continue. I don't have the dexterity I once did but still enjoy challenging games, even if I have to grind my way through them. On really tough nights playing Ori, I probably died over a hundred times. In some ways, that is punishment enough. In Wynncraft, I am at lv 26 and have 11 soul points. When I hover over the soul count at 7, it says I have a 5% chance of losing "other items". Seems low until you consider that I will face that decision many times and will lose stuff. Dungeons are worse from a new player perspective because they don't send you back to town (or at least that's how the infested pit is). It's not far from Nemract and not really all that risky to think I will make it there without dying, but odd unexpected stuff does happen. So now my limit for dungeon attempts is 1. Quests is 2.

 

but w h y
this would just mean that before fighting any boss you just toss every non id-ed item into your bank
also, unless you're talking about health pots specifically, 9 times out of 10, you're not going to go into some boss altar with a bunch of "consumables".

 

Damn this has been going on for almost a year
anyway
I read through the entire thing (damn you guys write a lot) and have found the main arguments that those in favour of the death penalty make.

(Disclaimer: These arguments only apply when levelling - once you hit level 100, there's no reason whatsoever that you should ever be punished for dying because at that point it's just testing out different builds against different fights and I doubt anything anyone here will say can change that.)

First and foremost, "survival should be rewarded."
Well..... maybe.
I totally understand how you could make the argument that dying is bad and those who survive should get more benefits than those who die, but I don't entirely agree with that. One way you could implement this is by having some sort of "if you don't die for 10 minutes, we give you an eb" feature, but that would incentivize afk-ing/highly tanky builds.
I personally don't think survival should be rewarded, since dying is pretty much an unavoidable part of the game (unless you're really good at it, and, well, most of us aren't), and rewarding survival just means having players take fewer risks and will end up only entering fights that they know they'll first-try (then they don't get to experience things like Prison of Souls, an incredibly fun boss altar imo which is also very hard).
Rewarding survival would mean that players would never go into dangerous situations unless they had a very high payoff.

Secondly, "just get a better build."
. . .
ok
sure
let's only let the meta builds be viable in the slightest
like
the divide between the meta and anything outside of it is really big, and that's a problem with the game, not the builds. People should be able to use what they want to.

And finally, "people shouldn't be trying bosses 30 times."
I don't even understand this one. Not everyone's a god at this game, if you haven't noticed, and there are some bosses where trying it repeatedly to learn how it works is the best and most fun way to beat it. I'd rather struggle with a boss than crush it instantly.

 

we need a conclusive comment from salted on this thread

 

can't wait for soul points to be removed :thinking: :happy:

 

I included health pots as well. Losing your ID’d items is a lot harder to recuperate from. Especially if you lose your Hive items or other quest rewards. The max chance to lose your ID’d items is at like 13% and is only nonzero at 4 soul points or below, so it’s really not that much different in terms of losing your ID’d items in the current system.

 

At that point it's just a minor inconvenience, though, and just a waste of a couple emeralds
like if you had a 10% chance to lose any given health pot, with 30 of them, and them costing ~1eb per, you're losing 3eb per death
that's like
enough where it's annoying for poorer people, but not enough where it actually punishes anyone
at most what it'd do is make you go buy more pots

 

Idk what the exact rates should be, but imo It should be 50% for ingredients, 25% for emeralds, and 33% for all other items except for ID’d items and horses. Regardless, death is treated as a minor inconvenience most of the time already. The reason why my suggestion is better is that it doesn’t get worse overtime and thus it doesn’t punish players for playing the game more.

 

But this system would just make players put things in their bank more - it doesn't matter if you die 50 times to Reincarnation - as long as you don't have anything on you, you'll be fine!
It would just make people take one small extra unnecessary step, and on the whole not be useful.

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An experience penalty, huh?
That would not go well.
Imagine you're trying to beat some boss like CoW repeatedly and dying and now whoops you're level 67 guess you have to go grind now. It would waste amounts of time comparable to the current Soul Point system, and on the whole, maybe make new players enjoy wynn even less, as their hard-earned levels are ripped away from them.

 

I thought you understood why Soul Points were bad from your responses to other players? Like that’s the whole point; you should be able to try bosses as much you want to, but if you’re lazy you’ll be risk losing your riches. Earlier you were saying how not everyone, especially newbies, is good at the game, and the only way you really get better is through practice.

Your argument isn’t unique to my system; as long as you don’t go below 4 SP and put everything in your bank, you’d never lose anything. It’s not useless either; if you’re loot running or questing or far away from a bank, you’ll on average lose a lot more items than under the current system. To reach the drop rates I proposed earlier in the current system, you have to be at half or lower soul points; for un-ID’d items you’d have to be at 1 soul point to have the same drop rate. Plus under my new system, you could no longer wait or world hop to get more SP and thus lower your drop rates again. It’ll always be a constant, but manageable threat. And at least you never have to worry about your ID’d items dropping.

Let me put this into perspective. Under the current system, at 15 SP, you could die 3 times and not lose a single emerald or other item except for 63.1% of your initial ingredients. And then just wait or world hop to get them back and rinse and repeat again. Whereas under my new system, you’d lose 87.5% of your initial ingredients, 57.8% of your initial emeralds, and 70.3% of all your other initial items except ID’d and horses.

 

who said it was gonna reduce levels

 

wait ok what do you mean by "experience penalty"

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the issue is IDed items specifically. I don't particularly care about other items being dropped (you can just bank those, even in the current system), and what I'm saying is that pretty much any death penalty system will either be
a) too severe
or b) not severe enough, and simply a minor inconvenience.

Soul points fall into the first category, and yours just barely falls into the second. I'm not against your system by any means, but I'd prefer more of a "1% xp boost per sp" (or something along those lines) approach.

 

Im definitely not a fan of soul points system, but i do feel like people should lose items on death on hardcore/hunted, as otherwise they woudnt be that much of a challenge.

Overall removing them just makes sense, it is annoying not being able to explore things 10+ levels above because you died a few times and are now risking losing unidentified items/identified items

 

good.

 

Amongus….,

 

The best replacement for SP as a death-punishment system is nothing. But if there must be one, then give crafted-style durability to all gear. Unlike crafted gear, though, make the durability only go down on death.

The only downside I could see to this is the Item Team having to go and manually add a durability stat to every item in the game, but it's a nice solution that uses already-existing in-game systems. Plus, it makes scrap useful for every item, not just crafted gear.

 

Bump cuz I want to actually be able to practice hard bosses without stopping every 5 tries like it's a mobile game