Game Design Make Exploding From Explosive Impact Affect The Enemy That The Explosion Is From

explosive impact is a very fun major id, it gives some variety to melee builds and allows explosion builds to have some aoe melee, but as the title says i think the major id should be able to affect the enemy that exploding comes from, and i have several reasons for this

first, it feels like an oversight that exploding impact doesnt affect the mob it comes from, before the major id was added, exploding only activated when a mob is killed, so it would make sense if it was programmed that the mob that was dying doesnt take damage from exploding. but now, since exploding impact exists, it wouldn't be too out of pocket to assume that they didnt bother to change exploding to fit the id (im not saying thats what happened though)
i feel like it would make much more sense if the monster thats literally the epicenter of the explosion be able to be affected by it, even if the developers intended it as like the creature is creating the explosion, the enemy still wouldnt be immune to their own explosion if they are on top of it, especially considering any creature can explode from exploding impact. in fact, the mob at the center of the explosion should be taking the most damage since theyre absorbing the biggest amount of force, but thats not up to me to decide

second, explosion builds dont have the best single target dps, however they make it up in their crowd control abilities. imo though part of the problem is the lack of usage for explosion dedicated builds, since you have to melee to activate exploding impact, and being able to take out bosses easier is generally better then being able to deal with a crowd of mobs while playing melee, i cant really name that many parts in the game where i was swarmed by a large, dense group of mobs and died because i had very little crowd control options (spells generally outclass exploding, and every class has a aoe spell option)

third, exploding impact builds are a bit too demanding. you have to use a mediocre midgame helmet (or choose it in raids but thats boring and lame if its essentially raid exclusive major id) with low health and negative elemental defenses which also hogs up your helmet slot so no items like centi or bmask. this on its own wouldnt be too bad, but exploding impact sucks unless you have a build centered around it, so not only would you need the helmet, but you would also need near 100% exploding and melee boosting gear, otherwise the helmet would be useless and theres really no reason not to replace it with a better helmet. the exploding issue can be fixed with collapse, which is objectively the best exploding weapon, but it comes with pretty high skill reqs (you cant use any hive armor with it either since its rainbow) and it makes you hella glassy (and its also a warrior weapon, glass and warrior dont really fit well together but it happened)
tl;dr its too useless when used to complement builds, and builds that are based around it aren't too good

finally, even after this change, the damage difference really wouldnt be too big, considering my last point, other melee builds generally have better ehp and dps, and some of the major areas of the game arent changed much by the addition of a stream of exploding, like LI where most of the bosses outside of cybel and maybe accipientis have literally no minions, or their minions are small/spawn away from the boss/rarely aggro on you/are slow. one of the best areas for this is probably raids, but even then, you can get exploding impact as a buff without needing a bad helmet, so getting the extra power boost from your exploding impact should give a more reasonable experience for builds that use it

ok that about sums up why i think exploding should affect the mobs it hits, let me know how much my suggestion sucks down in the comments

 

big boom bump

 

funny bump

 

If explosions affected the mob they originated from, Explosive Impact would straight-up just double your damage(you'd deal your basic hit and an extra Explosion hit), and Fission would make that even more(your basic hit, then a double-damage Explosion hit for an effective 3x). Don't you think that's a little TOO strong?

 

ill agree with you here, its 3x more damage on collapse and hesperium and 2x on most other builds, and i cant really justify it that much but heres my thought process
i dont think the problem would be with fission weapons, the only 2 items that have them both have severe drawbacks that i feel this change would be justified if only these two weapons were affect

collapse is collapse and has a bunch of drawbacks
the 0-310 rainbow damage isn't the biggest problem, but you end up having very inconsistent dps with it and can often get low rolls, not to mention each element rolls individually
it has high rainbow requirements, and losing the helmet slot from scarlet veil doesn't help since you cant use items like bmask for sp or centipede for attack speed (collapse would be the perfect weapon for centipede after it now requires defense too, so thats a big loss), you also can't use the majority of tierstack items like twilight-gilded, virgo, and anything with high single or double elemental requirements (im suprised how many tierstack items have a 60 40 skill requirement or something close to that) since you dont have enough skill points for that
scarlet veil has 1 attack speed sure, but it also destroys your ele defense, -30 in each element and -70%-130% each element
this, paired with collapse, means you are going to have very high - elemental defenses, paired with sp requirements and the 1k hp of scarlet veil means your going to be both generally glassy to elements and have low ehp
from the builds ive made the dps is ok i suppose, ive gotten around 20k-24k dps but at the drawback of low elemental defense and it was cutting it very tight for sp, the explosions are nice but as i said there hasn't really been that many areas in the game where that explosion made things so much easier (i haven't tried raids yet with it however and i was told it was really good for that)

hesperium is a bit different, it doesnt have the - defense of collapse and it has a reasonable sp requirement, it also comes with 1 attack speed and also is very slow, but it has the drawback of being anti thunder and having very low exploding, meaning you have to get the exploding from the items in the build while also having to get 3 attack speed or high heavy damage without a helmet slot. it also comes with lowish damage and its also an archer weapon, melee archer isnt the greatest at dealing with groups of enemies in the first place so hesperium doesn't synergize well with its class unlike collapse, which is why i feel here the exploding is justified (its also level 65, its literally designed as a midgame weapon)
many items dont work well with it either, second wind is a rly good fire attack speed item but with hesperium you blast your thunder defense to oblivion, and physalis provides a lot of exploding but its a thunder item and you lose air defense too

thats what i was thinking with this change, both of these items and scarlet veil have major drawbacks and have fairly low dps
but after reading your response and thinking about it tierstack builds in general would become far too powerful with this change, and i agree that its wayyyyy too strong
i didnt really think about that when making the thread, but this build would be nuclear if this change would happen, sure it has 18k ehp but most things would die from the 156k average dps before they could take you out and it comes with 100% exploding
obviously thats nuts, but i came up with some solutions
most solutions i can think of would be a bit too complicated too, so ill just be happy with what i have
the first i came up with was that scarlet veil would only activate with fission, since that would fix it being slapped on to builds that dont need it, but thats dumb and stupid for obvious reasons, especially if you get it in a raid and youre using literally any other weapon

the best solution i came up with though and i actually dont think its that bad exploding impact replaces your melee attack with an explosion whenever it activates, and it either fires a regular melee attack or does no damage at all (which would be more fun, it cant be slapped on random builds) when your exploding doesn't activate
so basically, when your exploding procs with exploding impact, your melee attack is entirely replaced with an explosion, where the melee attack particle would be (mage's beam would explode like it would now, except the beam itself will deal no damage, archer's arrows would explode when it hits an enemy/hits the ground, whereas the arrow would not deal any damage on its own, and shaman's beam would be like mage where it explodes like it does now, except the attack itself does no damage)
this way, any build that scarlet veil uses would deal regular damage but with the range of an explosion, and fission builds would have double damage and double range (which like i said fairly justified considering the negatives of both weapons and their low dps)
your punished for not having high exploding either if you go with the attacks that dont proc explosing don't deal any damage, meaning that builds using scarlet veil should be carefully made in order to assure they aren't losing dps because they didnt use any exploding tiems
and it fixes most of the problems, you aren't dealing double damage on any melee build (but melee builds still have a usage for the extra range), and you can only double your range/damage
the only thing i will say, it will be hard to make this and allow life steal and mana steal to proc like normal, so maybe instead of entirely replacing your melee attack, the particle still shows up and hits, except it does no damage and only serves to activate ls/ms

well thats all i have to say for now

 

But isn’t that kinda unnecessary?
Could be wrong but doesn’t exploding do the same dmg as ur normal melee attack? If so, then wouldn’t it replacing the melee make it do the same exact dmg and all, making it have no effect compared to now

 

mhm, it has huge aoe though which you already know
but the 2 weapons with fission (collapse and hesperium) deal double damage and have double range with explosions, but the explosion doesnt affect the mob it explodes from
basically my entire suggestion is to increase the single target dps of fission weapons with scarlet veil, since as i said multiple times their dps against single targets is pretty low for how many negatives scarlet veil/collapse/hesperium builds have

 

Oh my bad didn’t know that existed

 

its aight, the id was just added and idk many people that used collapse before this

 

bump for funny explosions