Guilds Guild Objectives - Alternate Way To Obtain Guild Tomes

Guild tomes are currently only obtainable through a territory upgrade called tome seeking. The chances that the upgrade gives for getting guild tomes is extremely low, and we estimate that currently only one tome is generated every two hours for the whole server (note: the values for the upgrade have been buffed in 1.20.2, but they’re still quite low). Instead of only obtaining guild tomes through the tome seeking upgrade, there should also be a system of guild objectives to obtain guild tomes. These objectives can be for doing raids, wars, dungeons, etc with your guild members. If needed, there can also be a weekly cap on objectives so as not to exceed the efficiency (however poor it may be) of the tome seeking upgrade.

All numbers included in this suggestion are not balanced and serve as simple examples. Please offer feedback for how the numbers should be balanced.

Pity System:

The chances listed below are fairly low, with average rates of around 1 tome every 10 hours. To combat rng and make sure that no one goes too long without getting a tome, there would be a guaranteed tome every 10 objectives that have a 10%+ chance for a tome. That combats any low difficulty warring abuse or low level dungeon abuse. It's a pretty harsh pity rate (200 wars, 200 dungeons, 50 raids) considering it's for a whole guild rather than a single player, but it should be serviceable.

War Objective:

When a guild reaches 20 UNIQUE successful wars on unique territories, they have a chance to have a guild tome appear in the guild storage. Unless 19 OTHER territories are taken to reach 20 unique wars, a single territory attacked over and over again will not contribute to the chance to get a tome after the first time.

Each territory difficulty will contribute a different % to the final chance to get a tome, with Very Low being the lowest, and Very High being the highest. HQs were originally going to have an extra bonus, but that was too easily abusable with subguilds.

Territory % bonuses:
Very Low: 0.3% chance
Low: 0.5% chance
Medium: 1% chance
High: 3% chance
Very High: 5% chance

Example: 5 Very Lows, 5 Lows, 8 Mediums, 1 High, 1 Very High.
(0.3% x 5) + (0.5% x 5) + (1% x 8) + (3% x 1) + (5% x 1) = 20% chance to get a guild tome.

If needed, you can either adjust the values to give an average reasonable % chance to find a guild tome, or place a total cap below the “max” possible chance to hard cap the chance of finding a guild tome per unique territories. For example, a hard cap of 20% would mean that taking 20 Mediums would give you a 20% chance (1% x 20 = 20%), but so would taking 20 Highs (3% x 20 = 60%, down to 20%) because of the hard cap.

Raid Objective:

By completing a raid with at least one other guild member, the raid objective will increase by 1. When your guild has completed 5 raids a guild tome has a chance to appear in your guild storage. This chance works similarly to the guild wars chance, with different raids increasing the chance that you’ll get a tome. The raids have different bonuses because of how Grootslang is lower level, but it could also be a set 20% chance after completing 5 raids.

Raid % bonuses:
Grootslang: 3%
Orphion: 4%
Colossus: 4%

Example: 1 Grootslang, 2 Orphion, 2 Colossus.
(3% x 1) + (4% x 2) + (4% x 2) = 19% chance to get a guild tome.

Dungeon Objective:

By completing a dungeon with at least one other guild member, the dungeon objective will increase by 1. When your guild has completed 20 dungeons you’ll have a chance to get a guild tome. The same concept as before. Lower level dungeons have lower bonuses, and all the corrupted dungeons have the same bonus because they scale with player levels.

Dungeon % bonuses:
Decrepit Sewers: 0.1%
Infested Pit: 0.1%
Lost Sanctuary: 0.2%
Underworld Crypt: 0.2%
Sand-Swept Tomb: 0.3%
Ice Barrows: 0.3%
Undergrowth Ruins: 0.4%
Galleon’s Graveyard: 0.4%
Fallen Factory: 1%
Eldritch Outlook: 1%
CDS: 0.8%
CIP: 0.8%
CLS: 0.8%
CUC: 0.8%
CSST: 0.8%
CIB: 0.8%
CUR: 0.8%

Example: 20 corrupted dungeons of any type = 16% chance to get a guild tome.

The dungeon objective and the forgery chest could be completed alongside each other, giving more reasons for running corrupted dungeons repeatedly. EO and FF have higher chances than the corrupted dungeons because of this.

Simpler Alternatives to this System:

After some thought and feedback, there are some simpler ways that this could be done which would probably be slower but not have any rng.

1) Simply have one progress bar that represents the activities you do with your guild members, and when the bar reaches 100% it gives your guild a guild tome. Raids, dungeons, and wars would all contribute to this progress bar, but with similar percentages to the ones that I’ve listed above. Running EO would contribute 1% to the progress bar, whereas running TCC would contribute 4%. These values could of course be changed a bit if needed.

2) Not have chances to obtain a guild tome, but simply have a guaranteed guild tome after 10 objectives. This is the pity system detailed above, but as the main system instead. The % chances wouldn’t exist, but instead there could be a reward of some guild xp (or anything else really) after completing an objective.

Conclusion/TL;DR:

Guild tomes are currently only obtained by holding territories for extended periods of time, making them effectively unobtainable for most community guilds or guilds that don’t belong to a mega alliance. Obtaining guild tomes can still be difficult or slow, but give players other methods to obtain them that don’t rely on holding territories.

***This suggestion has been worked on by other people in AIn besides me, along with some feedback from other guild people. I'll edit this as I receive more feedback.

 

pogger moment

 

pogger moment

 

I like the idea here (and would be happy to see it implemented since guild tomes are awful as of now), but I think it addresses the wrong issue with guild tomes. You're suggestion addresses the scarcity of them and not the functionality which is where I think the real issue is.

The idea behind guild tomes was to make it a risk reward system for guilds, you need to compromise on defenses in order to farm them which I actually think is a good idea in concept, but the execution was just laughably bad. By allowing people to get them through other methods, you allow people to sidestep the real cost of getting them which basically takes away any potential they had for being a tactical asset since there's no scarcity anymore which was their most interesting feature.

I personally think the only fix for guild tomes right now is to make them way more powerful, make them only work during wars and make them temporary. Letting more people get them could be nice and convenient, but I feel like this suggestion just robs them of all the potential they have to be different by making them just another thing to grind for, only this time with friends.

This suggestion also doesn't solve the biggest issue which is guild leaders having no good reason to distribute the collected tomes.

 

These need to be tweaked down in comparison to raids assuming [X] stays the same as raids are as I could run EO with a person in 6 minutes to get easy 30% every 2 hours. Same goes for other dungeons. Probably half of that number would work.

However said, what about a pity system? I certainly do not want to run 1000 EO runs with a person and somehow still not get one because RNG haha.

That's a good view about these tomes and is interesting to look into. I don't have an opinion on this yet.

 

If guild tomes were made so they didn't affect normal gameplay, I would be all for it. Either of these suggestions would fix the situation for me so I'm fine with either. I'm operating under the assumption that guild tomes will stay the same stat-wise, so that's what the suggestion is based around. Keep in mind that the tome-seeking upgrade would ideally be more efficient (after much balancing) so guild tomes would still be very rare. For a casual player who can't keep up with guild politics or warring, this would give them the chance to work for a guild tome, albeit quite slowly.

 

pogger moment

 

Yeah, basically why I would be happy to see this in the game. I wouldn't say I'm indifferent and I don't think it's the right fix, but it's the more realistic one and it's still better then nothing without question. I also didn't say this before (which I probably should have...) but you clearly put some thought and effort into this suggestion and it shows, I like the amount of detail you went into, nice work!

 

Thanks for your feedback Crokee! Yeah I realized after reading your comment that I should put a bit more effort into actually balancing these chances, so I reduced most of the chances (and reduced the raid req down to 5) to make sure that it's not overpowered in any way. The pity system is an excellent suggestion, and I implemented a guaranteed tome every 5 objectives which I hope is sufficient but not overpowered.

Having said all that, running EO for 2 hours straight at 6 minutes a pop isn't quite something that the majority of players could accomplish. Your EO speedrun/challenge exploits put you a fair bit above even most veteran players.

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Thank you for your kind words! I sadly can't take full ownership for this suggestion though. It was a collaboration of several AIn members with input from some others in the guild community.

To be honest, I would personally prefer that guild tomes change to something similar to your suggestion of a bonus in wars, but imo that's quite unlikely to happen. This suggestion was the next best thing that we came up with, but it is of course subject to criticism and revision.

 

Ngl not a fan of this. Guild tomes were made to incentivise warring, if you don't want to war then you simply don't get them because they aren't a massive boost that you're drastically behind without. A lot of people have put in hours of effort to get these tomes, and they're being rewarded for it. Why should some people be annoyed at this and then decide they don't want to work half as hard for them so they should automatically get a system that instead benefits them?

Work for the things you want instead of complaining & saying we should change the systems to fit you.

 

Be honest, how many recruits have you given useful guild tomes to? I don't mean giving out what you had lying around, I mean tomes you specifically allowed people to grind for because they worked hard. I'm willing to bet that number is low, if not basically zero.

I don't know how your guild works, maybe you actually do spend all your resources farming out tomes for everyone, but the reality is doing that is wildly inefficient and is a massive waste of resources. There's no reason to give people tomes, the guild stands to gain nothing from doing it.

It's easy to say that you should work hard for the tomes, but the current mechanic actively punishes guilds who try and get enough tomes for everyone to have what they want. Being a guild owner, I'm sure you have all the tomes you want, but that isn't the case for most people who want to play the game more casually. The current system only promotes grinding out enough tomes for you and your close friends because there's a large cost associated with getting good tomes and almost no benefit to giving them out to all your guild members. I'm not a fan of this specific idea either, but you need to be delusional to think that the current system is good or promotes hard work.

 

Recruits can't war, but most of Shy's tomes have gone to its captains who've warred and help contribute to the guild :) Only 2 out of the 13 tomes we've given out have gone to people at strategist or above. Also, i'm not a guild owner :)

Not to mention how like in most guilds, captain is given to those with a willingness to war, so i mean, they're basically winning here. If they help the guild accordingly, they get rewarded accordingly.

 

Oh lol, guild owner is Harka3l, I thought you had a typo in your profile, guess not :/

Regardless, my point still stands. Guild tomes are just a bad system where it only makes sense to give them to high ranking players to keep their loyality. Once you've farmed enough, there's never a reason to farm them again* which basically screws every player who isn't already at a high rank.

There needs to be either some other way to get tomes to fill those slots so anyone who wants to get them can reasonably get them without inconveniencing an entire guild or the utility of them needs to be drastically changed so guild owners actually have a reason to give out tomes to the people who actively war. There's a huge disconnect between what the guild tomes do and where they come from, it's stupid that guild leaders can have an influence on how players play the game outside of guilds.

*The current system is ripe for abuse since guild leaders could gain personal wealth by selling off the tomes either to people in their guild or outside of it. The current system is just bad and there needs to be some sort of protection added so the average player doesn't get screwed.

 

---> HOW TO GET A GUILD TOME EVERY TWO HOURS!!! WITH MINIMAL EFFORT!!! <---

insert thumbnail with 10 arrows pointing towards the eye and a pile of tomes

This pity limit is very low... It needs to be much higher. What if I did 20 very low successful territory captures 5 times? That's 6% chance x 5 attempts for a guaranteed tome. It could be more along the lines of say if all the percentages of each objective you complete add up to say 500% and you still didn't get a tome, then you get a pity tome.

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Man guild tomes are so god damn rare... its more valuable than say a god tier mythic even...

 

Hmm you're right about it being abusable with taking multiple very low territories, but rather than an overall % you have to reach I'd rather it be [x] objectives with 10%+ chance to get a tome. A total percentage would just encourage grinding the most efficient thing, but using a minimum % chance would at least encourage some variety while mitigating the very low abuse. Not to mention that finding 20 unique very low territories to war on isn't exactly easy, especially since you'd have to do that 5 times to get the guaranteed tome. (Also 500% wtf that's 500 EO runs, 500 medium wars, or 125 tcc/nol raids. i'll bump it up to 8 objectives but that's a pretty steep pity rate considering the low chances to begin with)

 

I would think like 90% of the guild tomes generated would then come from pity through this lol....

I wonder if its better just to be like you complete 8 objectives and you get a tome, no % chances or whatever to make it simple...?

 

I think you’re right about the system getting overly complicated. I’ve listed two alternatives in the main post which I’ve quoted here:

I disagree about the pity rate, and 90% is an over-exaggeration as I’m sure you know. It would be closer to 40% of tomes coming from the pity rate (if the average is 18% per objective). A pity rate doesn’t have to be pitiful, it just has to serve as a cushion for people that have bad rng.

 

The suggestion is pretty solid, i agree that having tomes being territory related only ends up being a bad thing basically softlocking big part of the community from getting them. BUT i dont agree on the objectives like the raid and dungeon ones that dont have anything to do with guilds. In my opinion, the war objective would be a very good implementation if accompanied by either lower fish cost from the territory tome upgrade or higher chance because rn its 4800 fish for on average one tome every 100ish hour so while if this is the only way to get them its an acceptable chance i guess, this method will be so much worse than doing wars and the upgrade will be unused.

 

This suggestion actually started out as just completing wars, but the feedback on the early drafts was that it should have more of a community focus which is why the dungeons and raids got added. Remember that in this suggestion you’d have to do raids/dungeons with guild members, so it would still be semi-guild related.

The tome seeking upgrade should definitely be buffed no matter what else happens, so I agree with you there.

 

Guild tomes..... (bump)