World Wynncraft Should Drop 1.9-1.11.2 Support

Now, before you say that it's useless, think of the noteblock possibilities. New sounds (because they were added in 1.12) allow for limitless possibilities, and wynn is buggier on those versions anyway. Using this also may help with a couple of bugs related to horses(?) Due to them being fixed in later versions. I don't exactly know how viaversion works (or maybe they use bungee), but I'm assuming that those versions are causing issues with others.

 

I don't disagree but updating versions can be quite hard so...

 

Wait how so? The commands or smth? I imagine they'd already have the 1.12 versions because they'd need to in order for 1.12 to work.

 

I thought they dropped support ages ago.

 

note blocks note blocks

 

I think it's a good idea IF wynntils updated to 1.15, because i don't know what to do without this mod

 

but wynntils is 1.12.2

 

Same but apparently not.

 

1.13 changes them again tho
Also the texture pack format changes
Also in general they might have to adapt quite a few things and plugins probably

 

E I forgot about that, also does 1.14 change them again?

Wait a minute...
If they can get the 1.9 sounds on 1.15, then they should be able to do the same with 1.12.2. IMO, it'd be nice for the music team, and allow for corpe_ to make better bangers.

 

I'm not going to say that they shouldn't be dropped out, because it's likely going to happen eventually anyways. However, I just think that the reasonings presented here are quite weak. When you look at past examples, old versions have only been dropped out when it's absolutely necessary, such as with the resource pack features offered by 1.9. If all of the game's core features are still intact, and there's viable alternatives to more minor things, such as blocks and entities, I don't see an issue with past versions being available.

One major problem I see with people wanting to get rid of old versions comes down to a loop:
-The reason why legacy versions are bad is because they have poor support.
-Legacy versions have poor support because they might get dropped.
-Legacy versions might be dropped because they are bad.

...and the cycle continues, which causes a dilemma; It's counterintuitive to develop a feature that targets legacy versions when there's a threat of them being dropped out, rendering that feature useless. Meanwhile, the threat is solely caused by the poor support the versions receive. It's kind of sad how currently the support for multiple versions is moreof used to introduce people into the game, only for them to be told "yeah, just use another version to play", instead of being a fully viable alternative, even when the issues caused by old versions are very mild.


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Different versions can see different blocks, different items and different entities when ones from a higher version are used, use different resource packs, and all of the aforementioned things can be entirely configured on the server's side. Individual clients also see different blocks and entities despite being on the same version, if that's what the server wants them to see. Even the music is handled separately for different players' clients ever since the music system revamp that allows songs to fade in and out. Hence, I don't see why sounds and songs couldn't also be separate.

Play legacy music for older clients and revamped music for newer clients? Can do.

Play revamped music for all clients? Can do...

...since it's not like Wynn uses actual noteblocks for the music. From a technical sense, any sound could be used in songs. Plus, with minecraft's sounds you don't even need to replace an existing one to add them, such as with blocks and items. Hence, if you add a sound called "penis" into the pack, then by god, you'll be able to play music with your penis to people with the pack, and they'll be able to hear it. Hence, newer versions having more noteblock specific sounds falls flat as an argument.

As far as I'm aware, Wynn's plugin reads songs directly from .nbs. Since note block studio is an open source program, and the plugin and resource pack are entirely within Wynn's control, Wynn could even take it one step further by making their own branch that allows for infinite sounds, more octaves via different sound files when minecraft's limit is reached, and even more helpful features; The sky's the limit. Just because that's an option, doesn't automatically mean that they will or should, though. It's just music after all, and I wouldn't imagine music having a higher priority than gameplay features.

This raises the question of "Is any of it worth the effort?". Having old and new songs being played on different instruments would be strange, and revamping 157 songs to fit the theme would be a lot of work, should the the extra instruments be supported. At the same time, it's also reasonable to ask "Do they need to be changed?". If you've been around a while, you might remember the public outcry that resulted from some classic songs such as Detlas theme being changed. If you have any solutions to circumvent this, be my guest.

As a conclusion of all this, I doubt that minecraft versions are the thing that's holding them back when it comes to music.


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Citations? I've never heard of this being happening despite actively following the bug reports section and discord. Correct me if I'm wrong by all means, but Mojang hasn't changed horse behaviour after 1.9, so I don't see why viaversion or Wynn's implementation of it would deal with horses differently based on the player's version. Any issues regarding horses, such as rubberbanding on certain non-solid blocks, affects all versions.


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Not really. As Jp'd describe it, Wynn runs on a hybrid version of minecraft, where half of minecraft's native code has been rewritten to allow for Wynn's features. As a result, some wacky sets of features have been available at a given time, such as having some features of a specific update available, but not others if they're not needed for anything. Take for example commands supporting formats from different versions, and being able to use multiple different versions' sound names without issues, since the server takes care of their compatibility.

Full updates to a new version aren't a necessity, and result in much more work than just implementing compatibility for versions. What's the point of rewriting tons of existing code to make it compatible with another version, when it's easier to just add support for new features separately as needed, and leave current code untouched?


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1.8 used format 1
1.9 - 1.10.2 use format 2
1.11 - 1.12.2 use format 3
1.13 - 1.14.4 use format 4
1.15 uses format 5

All of those use a different branch of wynnpack for compatibility, though, that has nothing to do with the server's version upgrade


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Note, that a lot of this information is based on listening, reading and participating in conversations during my time in the CT, so not all of it might be completely accurate or up to date.

Also, please just add an ordinary "no" to the poll.

 

Oh cool! Something about version stuff, which I can give in-depth detailing about!

Yes, this is something I would definitely like to see, as there isn't a lot of reasons for Wynncraft to stay on 1.9-1.11.2. I feel like a lot of people use 1.12.2 anyway for Wynntils, so you wouldn't be losing a lot of compatibility. Not to mention that there are already 1.12 blocks being used (Concrete, Concrete Powder, and Terracotta). I don't know what those look like to 1.11.2 users and lower, or maybe those are just retextured blocks? Don't know. Either way, it would bring a lot of cool new functionalities into Wynncraft, both build wise and technical-wise. One of them being, of course, new noteblock sounds, because damn we need some new ones.
Oh, and not to mention new sounds, new mobs, new blocks and items, new PARTICLES. It'd be awesome.

That isn't to say that updating versions is easy. I don't know Wynncraft's codebase myself, but from what I've heard it's very old and dated, and updating everything to 1.12 may take awhile depending what their version is (Pretty sure it's 1.9, dunno). Not to mention that they would have to update a lot of command blocks in case any of them break. However, I personally think it's worth the payoff.

Now to upgrade to 1.13 and beyond? NOT recommended. After 1.13, there are some major rewrites in Minecraft's code, and essentially every single aspect of Wynncraft will have to be revamped to not crash. This includes updating the codebase, basically ALL command blocks, upgrading the world without it breaking, and not to mention that even if you do successfully upgrade, there is a lot of unoptimization in the new code that isn't fixed until way down the patches.

This is probably true, but it comes into question how hard it is to implement cross-version features? Obviously we've seen it happen before with the way the Spin Attack is now with the Sweep Attack particles. It comes into question how hard was it? Or did they just happen to be on 1.9 as their primary codebase? Depending on how hard it is to create cross-version compatibility features like you suggested, it could be easier and more convenient in the future to upgrade version instead.
I should probably take a look at it myself sometime to confirm this as I'm running this off assumption, but I believe that 1.12 blocks don't show to 1.11.2 clients and lower, and it instead shows a different block. Again, could be entirely wrong, as I've never really played on any version below 1.12. Perhaps they re-textured blocks to look like 1.12.2 blocks and that's pretty smart, but what if they need to use those blocks in the future?

Pretty darn true, but I'm certain that there are more steps to this than what meets the eye. Most likely you'd have to bind the sound.json path up with the nbs file, and tell the Noteblock Music plugin what path binds to what sound string to play. I'm slightly tired right now so I can't really explain all of it, but I am fairly certain that it's hard to add custom sounds like that to Noteblock Music. I might try it out later and see if I can get it to work however.

 

So, nova gave a perfect counter essay against yours, both really well written. I wasn't really prepared for it to get this technical, but I guess I dont have the experience of either of you. As for the quote I have above, I only meant using a couple new instruments alongside, not rewriting the song. For example guitar might fight with corkus songs, while flute may be nice on rooster island, etc etc. They could also be used while creating a new area (like fruma), which may have a different vibe that the classic wynn sounds (even without this potential update, I'm sure the music team wouldn't fail to disappoint).

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Your counter essay was great, and basically answered all the things I couldn't about Aarontti's great essay.

As for the quote I picked out, if you can manage this, then we have the potential to put those instrumental versions in wynn, which would be epic

 

This is probably something that we would need an admin or developer to chime in on in order to properly grasp the possibility. There is often time a lot of things going on behind the scenes that keep a server going that we the players will never know.

 

I think the wynnpack changes some sounds to make the music anyways.

 

Not sure that they added any more sounds though...