Weekly Community Discussion (24/01/2020) - Ingredient Discussion

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Hey there, everyone! Today’s the sixth weekly discussion focusing on items, ingredients and gameplay. As mentioned in our previous discussion threads, this won’t be a one-sided conversation, but an open forum between us and you. As mentioned on our thread here, we’ll be doing this weekly but if there is enough interest and conversation ongoing as the week draws to a close, we’ll roll it over to the next week. If not, this thread will be locked and we’ll move onto a new discussion.


For reference, the previous thread’s discussion was on Mythic Boots, and can be found here.


This Week’s Topic: Ingredient Discussion



Given that the recent discussion threads all mostly revolve around items, we’d like to touch up on another topic that, while not as developed as other aspects of the game, is still important for the balance of the game as a whole. We’d like to use this week to discuss the current state of ingredients at the moment, given the relatively little discussion and development crafted items have been receiving since their launch in 1.18. This thread aims to compile some general feedback on ingredients so we can look more closely at them later on.

See you on the flip side!


The Item Team​

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Just a small update, since more people will likely see it, we're formalizing these discussions to happen every 2 weeks, rather than 1 week with occasional 2 week lengths. Let's keep the discussion going <3

 

I've said it once, i'll say it again- Chef Hamsay should sell simple cooking/alchemism/scribing ingredients that make the endgame grind easier for those professions and make it so that it's possible to cook mashed potatoes with actual butter.

The fact that we have cooking and still no pasta or noodles is a disgrace. You know what else is a disgrace? No goddamn garlic bread- make it happen.

Ok this is like 80% a shitpost and 20% an actual suggestion I would frickin' love butter to be added to the game.

 

a bigger variety of melee heavy

this is the item with most heavy melee (ironwood chips is "heavy melee" but talking about raw)



i know someone said something about a new raw melee ing but i dont think its heavy and im banned so wouldnt know :shrug:

 

I kind of wanna talk about how the crafting system as a whole is extremely unsatisfying and unrewarding because of the garbage durability system in place, basically binding you to a blacksmith all time, but since that would kind of miss the point of the thread I'm just going to point out that leopard blood is still in the game.

 

From what i've heard Heavy Melee ingredients would be a nightmare to make work- You either run the risk of it being droll and boring and without any real benefit, making it way too strong (honestly the least likely option) or, far worse than all that, making Condensed Darkness 2.0, where Flipped "X Heavy Melee Ingredient" becomes an easy way to get +14 Tiers for minimal downside. Obviously that's terrifying and not something to be taken lightly.

I, for one, would obviously love to see heavy melee ingredients, but with the current system I can't imagine a way of adding them without breaking something.

 

You should an ingredient for scribing which gives you between -10--30 xp so you can share love with cur Players
@Maarcus

 

you can just make it have -20 tiers and -500 str req so if you try flipping you just wasted materials and ingredients lol

 

or just give it + main attack dng%

 

main attack dmg% and -tier on an ingredient where have i seen that before

me and altakar actually tried designing a heavy melee for tailoring and found that even at ludicrous extremes like over 1k raw melee per ingredient it just wasn't competitive with the options people have.

big oof.

 

I think right now what would be cool for ingredients is just adding more merchants around the game with ingredients. Across the whole map things like wagons and farms could have merchants in them as well as some cities (kinda thinking like in breath of the wild here). Realistically if ingredients are found in cities and across the map from merchants that could just be alot of fun and also a nice money sink because I know y'all like money sinks ;)
But at these merchants for the most part id imagine just lower tier ingredients but also occasionally higher tier ones. (on a side note i'm not suggesting create 100 new ingredients for shops but rather take currently existing ones and maybe some new)

The second thing I have to say is that mobs with rare ingredients are way to rare, especially given that most don't even have a 100% drop rate. Crafted items need to have a balance between a grind that is greater than that of legendaries and the hellish abyss of hours of grinding for mythics. Currently I think that curve is to close to the latter (not saying its as hard to get as mythics just saying its to hard). I've had times i've grinded for hours and haven't gotten the item I need which I personally think is kind of ridiculous. Ingredients like bottled fairy and galvanic stone should be more practical to find and I think this is a serious problem with the current crafting system.

I understand however the latter two things may not specificly be item team related things so here are the next couple things I have to suggest
GIVE US MORE DURA BOOSTERS
This should be self explanatory, dura boosters are basically a necessity in any powerful item right now but having only a few (or for some items only one) to choose from is a serious pain in the ass and I feel wastes alot of potential of this creative crafting system we got going here. Being locked to so few dura boosters also makes dura boosters stupidly expensive most of the time which is yet another stupidly high priced portion to crafting.

Building off ingredients like bottled fairy and galvanic stone basically not existing I suppose if for whatever reason nothing is to be done about that the other option is to add more substitutes to these specialized ingredients (which the more I say out loud sounds stupid but it would help fix this stupid problem with ingredients being nearly impossible to find.)

I'd also love to see a bit more crafting support just all around for the 50-lower 60s range because to me personally that range feels like it lacks alot of ingredients as that is kind of the bridge between the end of early game and the start of late game in a sense.

The next thing I'd like to add is that a lot of weapon damages feel off balance. Crafted bows are obviously the most powerful right now, however in my testing wands feel a little low in base damage (can be saved with raw spell ofc) and spears as well (daggers a little but probably not in need a buff). The base damages just don't feel consistent through out all the classes and I think that that could use some work.

Obligatory dernic ingredients comment: buff these give them more dura and maybe damage/hp because honestly they are only in existence to piss people off for having to grind an extra useless 5 levels to use a recipe that should work fine at 100 if it wasn't for them.

Now something I would like to discuss is the seemly disproportionate support for woodworking to weapon smithing as well as tailoring to armoring. Currently woodworking is really insanely powerful in almost every playstyle and a weapon for nearly any build is craft able to a viable level. On top of that with the exception of incredibly specialized mythics (like divzer, lament, and fantasia) nearly anything can be replicated or even improved with woodworking. However with weapon smithing it doesn't feel the same. Spell weapons have adequate support however it can be difficult to get as much mana as on woodworking. However going over to fire and earth the support feels very lack luster and really just flat out weak. Weaponsmithing in these elements feels limited to just spell slapping with powders and a %damage booster as opposed to actually bringing out those unique elemental traits that woodworking can. Maybe I am the only one who thinks this but this is in my experience how it feels. I think armoring struggles from a simlar issue however I think this also can be more linked to the fact that tailoring has much better ingredients effectiveness items to better bring out currently existing ingredients.

Defenses in armoring and tailoring are another thing I'd like to bring up because currently raw defenses from powders are WAY to low to be worth bothering with on armors. The effects on armor that powders currently have is the same as when put in any armor's powder slot which I would have expected to be balanced differently. The defense you gain from powders in powder slots should be more a bonus on top of everything (as they currently are) you shouldn't be expected to have the same values when making crafted armor. These defenses just need to receive a large increase in order to work on armors better. This would allow for more defensive armors to be made which would encourage crafting for more than just squeezing out the most damage possible. I understand if this would be overpowered but another possibility with powders is to allow two powder specials on crafted armors, one from the ingredients and one from the slots. However I would most certainly understand why this could be overpowered when correctly abused I just think it could be a nice way to give more dual elemental support. Adding on to powders I would also suggest adding in an ingredients only rainbow powder that would basically be used for raw rainbow defenses in armors. Lastly with defenses perhaps giving the effect of raw defenses on non-powder ingredients also could work, however again I understand if this takes away from the uniqueness of powders

The last thing I'd like to touch on is just some more types of ingredients I think we could use in general:
Armoring/tailoring could use more hp regen (% and raw) ingrediants
Weaponsmithing could use more fire support all around as well as pure earth support (as there is alot of earth air it seems)
Woodoworking for the most part is fine
Scribing and cooking both seem to have less support than alchemism early and midgame
Nothing specific off the top of my head on individual ingrediants....oh maybe make eye of the beast -10% instead of 15% so mana regen crafteds can be...well...useful?

 

I would like to suggest that new ingredients be added that can only be purchased from dungeon merchants for dungeon fragments, to give the fragments a use outside of tools. For example, the Decrepit Sewers Dungeon Merchant could sell a T3 ingredient for 4 fragments, and a T2 for 2 fragments.

 

I like this idea alot

 

ingredients feedback thread? hooo boy...
Was planning on making a suggestion thread myself. Will edit tmr or so with my many ideas and problems
First off things that I remember today:
1. Alchemism, cooking and Scribing are in desperate need of flipping stuff. Also, scribing in particular needs stuff to flip too lmao.
2. Would love to have more stuff like dominant force and Major's badge- with some cleverness and experimenting you can do amazing stuff
3. Tailoring needs a rainbow option for damage
Also, I disagree with @Epicness937 that mythics with few exceptions can be replicated with woodworking. You can get mythic level DAMAGES maybe, but it's pretty much impossible to replicate pretty much any mythic. Decent amounts of skill points, Mana regen/steal, AND %dmgs, ws, hpr etc is very hard to put all on the same weapon. Take spring for example, seems easy but Intel, even 3 mr, AND high water dmg is pretty much impossible to make. It might be a problem in sp giving ingreds in particular but it's hard to do.

 

I would like to see expanded storage of our ingredients. So much of my Bank space is devoted to storing Rank 1-3 ingredients! Having a separate and as spacious place where we could store ingredients would be great.

 

I did point out some can't be. Lament, divzer and fantasia came to mind. However outside of shaman mystics (which none but maybe aftershock can be somewhat replicated) quite a few can be replicated to some extent with the important ids (like fatal, monster gaia (kinda) and lamant (as an mr)). for bows ignis (no major) freedom, az, spring, and a non agility gma can be replicated. I suppose yeah alot can't be outright replicated but compared to warrior and assassin its still much much better.

 

I see what you mean. Yeah, mythics' main IDs PLUS everything else generally seem unreplicatable. Also a problem is not being able to choose attack speed without +/- tier ingredients so you would theoretically only be able to replicate ones that are normal speed, give or take a tier. Plus, rainbow weaps are pretty much impossible to give much of any other IDs cause powders take so many slots.
However, i still think there's more potential to replicate mythics in weaponsmithing after taking a look through the Spears and daggers. (Although a decent bit of the % defs cant be replicated, I don't think anyone really cares too much in most cases)

 

They don’t do this because some people would abuse the -IDs to troll teammates

 

or maybe make the fragments themselves ingredients

 

I don't think that's honestly a good enough reason if that's true. It cuts creativity and possibility by a lot, plus /class exists... A better solution needs to be created to troll scrolls in this case, or maybe a sort of toggle that allows you to be hit with scrolls or not