Game Design Warrior

Warrior's a pretty cool class. It's basically the only class that's intended to be melee oriented, it's insanely tanky with its base defense and war scream, etc etc.

However, there's an issue with warrior that pertains to all playstyles, whether it be spell, hybrid, or melee.

Slowness.

Many bosses near end game have the ability to slow down the player (IIRC usually Slowness II). This poses are an issue for warrior for a couple of reasons.

Melee: Significantly more difficult to strafe, making it difficult to dodge projectile users consistently (sprint is available, but not all the time). Although many tierstack items like Accelerator, Burnout, Horizon, and Centipede have walk speed, there are other items that are used on "less" tier stack builds (Rekkr, Mantlewalkers, Shawl of Gaea, Warchief). Most high damage, non-tierstack armor gives negative walkspeed, with few exceptions (many of those exceptions have downsides, such as Dune Storm's -HP).

One can argue that builds should then have a balance of damage and walk speed etc., but this particular style of builds almost "requires" that damage boosting must be done to the maximum in order to even compete with regular tierstack in terms of damage.

Melee builds also can't easily escape via spells, as most melee builds have low mana. This weakness also takes away from warrior's main niche, which is melee, thus making the class worse than it already is.

Of course, another solution to this particular section of the problem is adding stronger items for non-tier stack melee.

Spell/Hybrid: All of warrior's spells revolve around dealing high knockback. Getting slowed by a boss can easily take down your DPS by causing you having to run away OR make you take more damage by having to corner the boss. This applies even more so with hybrid because you have to be even closer to the boss in order to perform melee attacks to activate mana steal.

Solutions:
As mentioned earlier, one solution could be to buff non-tierstack melee items, or perhaps spears in general.

Another solution would be to give a spell like Warscream, which I would guess is intended to rally yourself and allies, clear status effects or give Speed I.

Not to mention that every other class has a counter for slowness. Archer can directly counter it with the effects of Speed III and also by minimizing the effect of slowness with their range. Assassins and mages simply clear the effect through spin attack or heal.

 

give warrior a gun

balanced

 

Incidentally, does Bash do knockback to knockback-resistant mobs?

 

Honestly, slowness has never been an issue for me as a warrior. Like you said for melee, it's in part due to walkspeed, because most melee builds (unless you're aiming for raw over tierstack) will have decent walkspeed. Charge spamming exists on spell/hybrid builds, so mobility really shouldn't be much of an issue for you. Plus, for hybrid/spell builds, you don't need to get as close to the enemy as you make it seem due to bash, uppercut, and even warscream all having effective dps at medium-long ish range. I have more trouble fighting enemies that teleport/charge around a lot more than I do those that give me slowness (which is an issue with pretty much every class not named archer), because cornering a boss is actually one of the better ideas as a warrior due to your knockback with bash/scream.

I also don't understand why you complain about taking more damage. The point of warrior is to be able to soak in loads of damage because

Since most enemies do at least some form of neutral damage, you don't even really need to put extra points into defense and still be able to take a beating, though it would be massively beneficial.

This seems more like you are complaining about "tierstack" vs. "non-tier stack" than anything, in which case I agree that

but I don't believe slowness is really a main problem of using warrior.

Warring, imo, is more of an issue then slowness when it comes to the kb of warrior's spells though. Unlike a boss, trying to corner multiple mobs in an open area is a lot more annoying and tedious than that of doing it to a single mob in a set arena. If anything for warrior's kb, I believe it should be reworked more for warring than actual PvE.

 

It even 'pulls' Death Metal
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

i guess you're sort of right about how this ended up only having very major effects on slow attack melee, but it's still an annoyance to most other playstyles too imo

something about spells
charge spamming knocks the enemy back even further. sad!

hybrid you have to melee to get a good sustain of mana, so yes i'd assume that you'd have to get close to deal damage
i agree that this is less impactful on spell builds though

melee experience, not featuring fire warrior while trying to conserve hp pots
as for taking more damage, warrior is indeed extremely tanky and takes half the damage mage does, but even so, you do end up taking damage. with hits piling up, the damage can accumulate pretty easily. a teleport from... some... matrojan phase did 3k with 70 defense and all positive elemental defenses

with positive walk speed (20%) and sprint jumping away, i was barely able to outrun the golem in corkus accipientis.

sprint jumping away in a circular motion, i was taking quite a few hits for 2k each (70 defense, all positive elemental defenses) from matrojan idol phase 9

i was unable to dodge projectiles from mummyboard's 2nd phase without sprinting (not so bad)

assassin thing
previously, i've played on assassin which stat-wise is imo weaker, but manages to perform significantly better.

in fact, i used less hp pots with my fate's shear build (25% ws, 80 defense, 45 agility, 7k dps) than with this rikter build (18% ws, 70 defense 50 agility, 9k dps or 12k on tier stack variant). and fate's shear had no ls (rikter 194). no, it wasn't because of stunlock (probably), as i only spinned after getting slowed

wars
i haven't actually found too many problems with warriors in wars. with a good chunk of lifesteal and 78 defense, tankiness isn't an issue. damage is lower than other classes, but still manageable. using brainwash and guardian, i was able to solo a 480 mob war (not completely sure what was in it in terms of numbers but, lv 100 clerics, witches, 90-100 honor guards, snipers, bishops iirc) without potions or any real hiccups. courage was broken too. focusing just 5 or so mobs at a time worked pretty alright. melee of course works pretty fine. not quite sure how well canceling the uppercut would work on wars, but that might work too.

 

Not entirely true. Sure, you will if you're doing it while you're on the mob, but I use charge primarily to get closer to the mob without hitting them with the charge itself.

Depends on the hybrid build being used. Some hybrid builds have sustain for mana both in and out of combat (a prime example being brainwash).

The part with Matrojan is fair enough, because like I said, I have more problems with enemies that charge spam/teleport spam since I have to try to get near them than those that give slowness. However, the part with Corkus Accipientis is more of your own fault. Corkus Accipientis in it's golem phase is one of the easiest bosses to dodge in the game and even with slowness on a melee build you can out pace him by occasionally using a charge when he gets too close to you (shocking that you would ever use a spell for something outside of a spell/hybrid build, I know). If you play it right, mana will never be an issue. The only wrench in the works is when he decides to commit Cybel spam but even then he's really easy to predict because unlike Cybel he doesn't have pull/push on his side. Granted though, his charges can get annoying depending on where he decides to land, but there's always a pretty lengthy cooldown between them for you to get close to him again with relative ease.

Whether you want to admit it or not, it was because of stunlock. Even when you use spin after getting slowed, the enemy being blinded for a few seconds AND them being stuck from moving for a second is still there.

Comparing one class to another in a situation of "which uses less hp pots" is kind of dumb though. While Assassin vs. Warrior is the best comparison when doing so, if you had done so with either of those compared to Mage/Archer it wouldn't make much sense, since Mage's goal is to just heal back all the damage and Archer's goal is to avoid as much damage as humanly possible. In fact, I'd expect Warrior to be the one using heal pots the most since you can take hits and not really care until you start getting pretty low, whereas the other 3 classes have to avoid being hit to a greater degree or, in the case of mage, don't even really need health pots to begin with (unless low on mana or in great danger).

Really depends on where you fight. For example, doing a war with many enclosed spaces is relatively easy with spell spam, whereas doing so in an open area becomes a real pain in the rear.

 

all epic points also i feel guilty for not putting as much effort into formatting my responses with quotes

true on the having mana on regen, but you still lose dps because you're losing out on potential mana from not getting ms (for example, having 8/4 mr and 14/4 ms, you'll generally lose out on mana if you only melee every once in a while.... wait... melee once in a while... atlas!) as often

fair point on charging away, but i didn't actually really get hit (note i said barely run away), so i didn't bother to use charge too much there. i'm just noting the speed comparison.

it wasn't really stunlock, considering that the boss should theoretically be alive for a longer time, making up for the stun time (no i didn't really vanish unless i actually took damage)

not quite sure how comparing hp pot use is dumb, because what i'm trying to get at here is that warrior shouldn't be as susceptible to slowness so that hp pot usage can be decreased. you perfectly noted how other classes have methods of not losing hp/getting it back, so therefore warrior should use more hp pots. i'm trying to get that changed.

-warrior has movement (dodging), but not as good as the other classes.
-warrior's dps isn't too great, so most of the time you can't just kill them before they kill you.
-lifesteal is there, as is with all classes though.
-the only real thing warrior specifically has for it is its tankiness, which outside of neutral-centric enemies is in my opinion isn't quite as good as self heal, just not getting hit, or... sort of self heal again/not getting hit
i guess this post is basically a testament for why we should get buffs on slow attack speed builds e pose

 

Even CGI sonic can't do E pose feelsbad.

 

Not sure if you edited this in or I just didn't notice, but I honestly have more of a problem with mage when it comes to this. Mage has the worst dps out of all the classes, so unless you can outheal spam the enemy (and your average mage has a much more likely chance of being ohko or bursted down quickly than that of an average warrior) this is more of the case with mage. I've never really experienced this issue many times with warrior, save for using a glassier build against something like Qira or Doctor Legendary.

 

i guess so, i just mean you can't archer everything and kill everything in 5 seconds, but yeah i see what you mean

 

Make War Scream 10% speed bonus, 10% resistance, and 10% strength. I think that would fix it.

 

yeahhh no...