A Rant On 1.16

So I've been around Wynn for a while. I joined just after VIP town was demolished and popped back on occasionally for some of the updates. But the 1.16 update is what really got under my skin. (I know I'm late to 1.16 but I still wanted to bring this up.)


My biggest issue is that it was made for the wrong level area. For the uninformed, the Corkus quests start at Level 83 and as of 1.16 end at 89. This IMO is the worst place to put it. In this level slot we already had 8 quests.

If you were to do all these quests, you would get 14,330,000 EXP. That amount of EXP, assuming you didn't have to grind, would get you to Level 87. You wouldn't be able to do some of the quests at Level 87 but grinding is a thing so you would already be close to 90. With the inclusion of the Corkus quests and grinding I personally barely got to level 90 not once, but three times. To put even more salt in the wound I started all these classes at level 85, and still had to grind at decent amount at Ice Heights. You could make an argument that I used mathematics to prove a point but personal experience to disprove a point, but grinding is very tricky; you could grinding just enough to get to the next level or grinding until you're level 90 and then do all the quests. My point is, grinding is too volatile of a variable to calculate. As for the quests themselves, I think the majority of them were good, even including the reworked ones. The Envoy, Mixed Feelings, Creeper Infiltration, and Out of My Mind I really enjoyed the way they went with them. I didn't like Desperate Metal because it was just fighting 4 bosses, and Potion Making since this is the third time I've done it.


The inclusion of the Uth Runes and Corrupted Underworld Crypt and CSST were pretty nice. Oh, did I say the Runes and the two dungeons? I mean ONLY THE CSST. I don't even need evidence for this; anyone who uses CSST as a mean of grinding, which is everyone that can hug a door, never uses Keys. They use Dungeon Bombs. They should've just kept the new dungeons being purchased with Nii Runes like the rest since no one in their right mind will ever hunt for a Golden Avia. Furthermore, CSST might as well be the only Corrupted Dungeon. Never have I seen someone run the dungeon except for a tutorial. Never have I seen anyone at the Forgery that didn't go into the CSST portal. And never have I seen anyone run any dungeon other than CSST. Out of every leveling guide I have checked which is about 17 at this point, I have only seen two dungeons in their list: Decrepit Sewers, which was only GlitchedSlayer’s grinding guide, and the CSST which is on every guide. Don't get me wrong, I still think CSST is a good place to gain EXP. That is because it is the only way besides the monotony and tedium of the Ice Heights.


Another way of gaining EXP is the Fallen Factory, a new dungeon made for Level 90s, but is a huge can of snakes itself. Fallen Factory probably went a bit overboard. Yes, it is a self-proclaimed Extreme dungeon, but even “Extreme” has its limits. Before you even give the villager your key there's already a problem. The door. You open the door which should be locked already to then give your key to the villager? It would make more sense if you gave your key to the villager and then a short cutscene would play of the door opening. To ensure that only those who have keys are allowed entrance, the already quick cutscene would automatically bring the player in and shut the door behind them. Once you're inside you must do the most original dungeon concept and collect toke- wait, they're not tokens? Why? They share the exact same purpose as tokens; throw enough in a hopper to progress through the dungeon. It wasn't even creative like Lost Sanctuary with TNT. Just tokens disguised as metal. Next is the conveyor belt scene. Two words: drawn out. You have to sit there and wait for the fire wall to move to proceed, cutting all tension from the situation. This can easily be up to 4 minutes on its own. For what it's worth even HippieCrafting / HippieSnuggles or whatever he's called these days admits this in his Fallen Factory Guide as well. I've already voiced my opinion on tokens so I'll skip that room. After that is the gear parkour. sighhhh. Many people, myself included, are either not fans or not good at parkour. Making the parkour rotate constantly is a whole new level. After doing the parkour you get an actually funny scene with the computer. The computer is the only thing I actually like about this place because he's entertaining. If they're going to make the dungeon monotonous, time consuming, and rage inducing, they may as well make the boss funny. Next is the third token section. Not much to add on there. Once again the computer is entertaining, making you kill a cute puppy to progress. The rest of the dungeon is basically Desperate Metal all over again; obtain three items from bosses (counting the 10 Cores as one boss for the sake of comparison) to then fight another boss. This probably would've been better as part of a quest, whether that would be part of Envoy II or a new quest (Envoy III?) Fallen Factory isn't the worst thing in the world, but it's nowhere near the best.


All in all, do I think that the 1.16 Update was good? No. One thing could save it however. Make Corkus tailored to Levels 90-95: As previously mentioned there were eight quests in Levels 83-89 before Corkus. That would equate to a little over one quest per level. However, Corkus had a perfect opportunity to fix a big problem with quests; the infamous Quest Gap. As of now there are no quests at Levels 91, 92, 93, or 94. Four levels with no quests, and four new quests… it's only make sense to NOT put those quests there! In all seriousness this could've fixed that very easily: Envoy I at 90, Desperate Metal at 91, Mixed Feelings at 92, grind 93 since this an MMO and grinding still needs to happen, and Envoy II at 94. Granted it'd be odd to have all the quests back to back but it's a mere suggestion.


Anyways I hope you like my rant and if you read it all then have yourself a cookie. Honestly I want everyone to post their criticisms so I can both refine and/or see how my argument is rubbish. Or if you'd like you can post something to help strengthen my argument. Thanks for reading and *insert overused goodbye line here*

 

I have always felt that corkus was aimed for the wrong levels. It should have been 90-95 as you said when we all ready have enough quests for 85-90
I used the corrupt dungeons to lvl my warrior from 62-72 (corrupt Sanc)

 

Right now the level 90-95 is planned to be filled with the Molten Heights quest line (in about a few dozen millennia). Shifting the entire update ten levels ahead at this point is pointless (heh, points) because they would need to as well change up the stats of all mobs, bosses, altars, and items.

 

I totally agree with MOST of this.
CSST should be changed, Fallen Factory has a lot of issues, and Desperate Metal is not the most interesting quest.

Remember that future content will probably fill these level gaps.

 

Ok.. lot to talk about. Let's start: I agree with you on almost everything, except for a point or two, but I'll get to that. Something to point out:
Since you say that you came back a bit after the 1.16 update, let me fill you in. Even before there was the op CSST (say that outloud), there was D-cave, which used totems and dxp to get really high xp per mob (10k per). This was when totems were in their first couple days when they had a glitch that allowed for you to get xp from all mobs killed in radius even if you were afk. Yadda yadda yadda, it was op. Then came dungeon bombs and all this new update stuff. First off, I think that the Golden Avias are a good concept, but not really worked out too well as no one actually gets keys. Now to my first dispute: Some people do use other corrupted dungeons as a means for getting certain gear, i.e. lost sanc. Next point: I do think that it would be nice to put some quests between the 91-94 level gap. My best guess for the gap is that it is there for one of two reasons:
Reason 1: Not enough quest ideas, in which case I agree with you 100% in that corkus should be 90-95 etc.
Reason 2: The quest gap could have been a separation tool to weed out the people who didn't have the time to really grind out millions of xp. If that is true, than it's not obsolete with the introduction of CSST.

 

There are quests planned for 90-95, the Molten Heights storyline, so the issue is being worked on. They just keep being delayed.

CSST is being reworked.

FF is more what I personally like in a dungeon. Long enough to seem more like a large dungeon. It's grindy to get the items, but it is being fixed.

 

I hope that corkus gets some more quests. 4 seems a bit lacking for an island of that size.

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The problem with changing csst is that you have to change sst as well and I personally like sst and think it's the right difficulty for its lvl. So adding more rooms, ect will make sst harder for its lvl and it's in a good place rn. Unless you mean fixing the bugs then completely disragerd this.
I agree with you I feel like most dungeon in wynncraft are to short and to farmable because of that they should be more like dungeons in other games that take around 20-30 mins

 

I think Uth runes were a good idea, since grinding Nii runes are a pain to grind, the problem is that because dungeon bombs exist nobody wants to get keys. I have 20 golden Avia feathers in my bank, Avias aren't hard to find at all honestly, if anything their spawn rates should be nerfed.

As for Fallen Factory, I really like it. The reason why the scraps and cores were used is because it's supposed to be different than the other dungeons. The clock Parlour room isn't hard once you learn the easiest way around it. Imo the only thing wrong with Factory is the conveyor belt part, it honestly makes the dungeon unnecessarily long, since the hammers barely do any damage.

As for the level range that Corkus is in, it is a bit unnecessary since the quests in CoTL are enough, but I think it's kind of nice that we can do more quests from 80-90 rather than just grinding in frozen. Think about that, would you rather do fun and engaging quests, or spend hours grinding mobs in Frozen Heights? I do agree that there needs to be some grinding since it's a fundamental in RPGs, but do you really want to spend 15 levels at the same grinding spot? There's eventually going to be new content from 90-95, so there's really no need to adjust the level on the Corkus quests.

And finally, your claim about most dungeons being useless is just not true. In fact, it's probably easier to get through the whole game by just doing dungeons than doing quests + grinding.

 

Firstly, the addition of new quests in Molten Heights doesn't fix the fact that there is a huge level area with no quests (27,121,000 EXP to be exact because math). As far as I know, Gavel came out in 1.14, 1.5 years ago. In about one year and two updates, the level gap still remains. This is personal opinion, but I would've rathered gavel be postponed to have quests to fill that gap. Secondly, at this point I don't wish Corkus to be up ten levels. It's should've been designed that way. If it were to be moved up now anyone that's already done the quests would be in Corkus early, and plus they'd have to remake everything to accomadate the level shift.

27 million EXP to grind. Even for MMO standards that's a bit crazy, and I assume you'd agree with that. And CSST is not obsolete, not will it be for a while. It's a nessecity. With 27mil EXP to grind, 550,000 EXP doesn't seem so bad (or 1,100,000 EXP with dxp). I have better things to do than math right now, so I'll just say this: 1,100,000 EXP per 5 minutes at most is better than 100,000 EXP/min which is what I was getting at Ice Heights (or 200,000 with DXP). This would mean that one would have to grind for 22 hrs at Ice Heights or a measly 2 at CSST. The inclusion of the Corrupted Sand-Swept Tomb has made any other grinding method obsolete in comparison.

I don't think that dungeons are useless because of the equipment you can get. That being said, that's the only saving grace of dungeons. Every dungeon gets tedious to run once you've done it 2-4 times. It does give good EXP, yes, but the purpose of a game is to be entertaining, and the quest gap and dungeons are anything but. Furthermore, Corrupted Dungeons don't seem to fit at all. There's nothing to explain Corrupted Dungeons or The Forgery for that matter. It just... is. And if you've done a dungeon, you've done the corrupted version of it. Oh, Decrepit Sewers is 60 levels higher? Neat. What else? It's... corrupted? Is that all? My point is that FF was in the right direction but flopped. Corrupted Dungeons are just a rehash of the old one with a new coat of paint and higher levels. And Corrupted Dungeons are doubly monotonous because if you grind with the SST which would already make it boring then CSST would already be tedious and only get more monotonous.

 

I meant to say that if the level gap was meant to weed out players, it was NOW obsolete with the introduction of CSST

 

Those are apparently for the molten heights storyline. Also I think that they added the new quests for that level in order to make the grinding curve more gradual. From a gameplay standpoint, going from 2-4 quests at levels 70-80 to 0-1 (besides level 85 which had two) from 81 to 90 was a bit extreme. Also, Corkus is levels 83-95, as evidenced by LI and the Aerie of the Recluse. They just haven't added quests for that level range because of the molten heights storyline.

I personally used all of the dungeons at one point or another to get items, but I do agree they need to nerf the CSST XP reward or something.

 

*cracks knuckles*

ALRIGHT, SO.

In regards to CSST, and the original Sand-Swept as well. The dungeon is boring and horribly flawed. The main gimmick of it was meant to be traps, but since you go through it multiple times the aim was to make them interesting even once you've gone through multiple times, which only the wave combat scenario really does very well at all. The arrow traps are harmless, and barring glitches, so is the falling floor after the unnecessarily long and boring grind step room. Hashr is pathetic for his level; the only reasons he had any difficulty were the fact that he had a literally unavoidable combo of pull+multihits due to how fast he casted, and then two glitches which haven't been fixed; often the resistance effect you get so you don't take fall damage going into the second arena doesn't work, meaning you lose 90% of your health at the start of the second phase, and if you don't kill the fake Hashr, it'll often drop into the arena which makes the boss a little bit more unbearable.

It is ridiculously easy, even doing it underlevelled; I have no problems completing the dungeon once I hit Lv 21-26 or so. It is also ridiculously SHORT. This is why people love grinding there so much compared to the other dungeons; the other ones take up your time much more than the SST, which means you can get multiple runs out of one dungeon bomb, especially with lots of people. This is a flaw which needs to be fixed; the dungeon needs to be lengthened and toughened up; right now I'd classify it as an Easy difficulty dungeon, same with Undergrowth Ruins. It also need more interesting traps which will make going through there a more unique experience and give the dungeon more personality.


In regards to the Fallen Factory, I have no idea why you think the gear parkour is so difficult. If you bother to examine the pieces for a couple of moments, you'll see how they move, and there's a ton of different paths you can take, some easier than others. We have a fellow on our QA team who abhors parkour because he's self-admittedly very bad at it. He LOVED this parkour because it catered to those people exactly. If you're having trouble with it, I seriously don't know what to tell you.

The conveyor belt part, I'm aware of. It's very glitchy, and despite it being technically finished, doesn't feel that way. Due to the fire wall forcing you to move forward, we had to make it not super fast so that people with -walk speed wouldn't be screwed over, though we do intend to make it faster. In regards to the hammers and pieces not dealing much damage, that's another glitch due to the way we calculated it. The way it was supposed to work was they were intended to inflict INSTANT_DAMAGE, which interacts strangely with Wynn health. Each level of instant damage actually takes off 3% of your maximum health. The hammers have an INSTANT_DAMAGE level of 10, meaning they're meant to take off 30% of your health, but they just don't for some reason. The pieces also don't move very reliably, which is another thing to fix. This part will be tightened up in the future.

The general gimmick of the dungeon is to use its own defenses against it, with the scrap of the robots and volatile energy cores being used to gum up the works and break through the defenses. Look at what the whole dungeon is; you're climbing through vents and breaking down grates and getting into rooms you aren't supposed to be getting into by using everything the computer throws your way. This is why the scrap and cores are a thing. I thought it a fairly creative way to use tokens, as excepting the TNT from the Lost Sanctuary, no other dungeon really does this kind of map interaction.

I'm also aware of the computer taking awhile, and I was thinking of overhauling that fight as well once we have the capability. I do want the fight to remain in-theme with the rest of the dungeon, turning its own defenses against it, so that's something to think over.


Anyway, that's my piece on this whole thing.

 

Mayble use the scrap to make a giant pile, then when it tries to clear it,it opens a hole below it so it drops to be repurposed. Then you get into the mechanisms using the hole and go thru a ventilation saft (you blow the grate with cores, there will be an emergency exit next to it) and make your way to the core using it

Just my Random idea

 

My ideas on Fallen Factory, after doing it 18 times, is that there are never enough mobs to kill to get though it quickly so maybe double the amount of spawn locations for mobs, and maybe keep us entertained on the conveyor belt by adding a few more mobs to deal with, while avoiding the tools, and keeping up with the fire.

I have never done CSST because I heard it was too strong, but if length is an issue then maybe you could add a maze with traps(lots of them) and mobs(maybe ones that slow/move you) in it. Also to further slow down speed runners you could have different templates for this maze have it reset it's orientation every time a player passes through it, or maybe a timer on the player so they need to complete the maze in a certain time or they will be sent back to the beginning.

 

I've adjusted this; putting too many more mobs will make the fighting sections unbearable to get through, so instead mobs that drop scrap have a chance to drop 2 at once.

 

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i need to format the thread better .-.

Imo corkus should be upped a bit, maybe like from 88-93. Not 90-95, that will be for the molten heights storyline (hurry da fak up pl0x). No one likes powering through boring and cancerous CoTL quests, and having Corkus quests in between is a reprieve. Somewhere in the middle.

Also, Dungeon bombs broke wynn (even more).
dungeon bombs = slatey's way to make fast money, however, it also made wynn wayy too easy. Attend one party, and boom, ur 100.
Besides, it also made nii runes and uth runes useless, as csst parties are common af these days. It made grinding for keys useless. #NerfDungeonBombs

 

Woah, woah, woah.

you know the computer always reminded me of glados so i never thought of the computer as a he

 

So Beyond the Grave, Hidden City, and Enter the Dojo are boring and cancerous? Ok...
I do see your point though. I know this is kind of unrelated, but most of the CoTL quests are worse or inferior to other good gavel quests. The quests that come to mind that I hate are From the Bottom, Maruder's Dues(however you spell that) and The Lost. I really hope that those quests get reworked one day, because honestly they really need to be.

 

when you've done every quest at least 5 times
everything is boring
especially CoTL
not even death's humor is funny anymore, i just skip right to tombstone and exit the mansion.
And hidden city? it was great the first time, but it got repetitive. Same with enter the dojo. I can't even see the block in the sight challenge half the time -__-

 

That's probably why you did get bored since you did it 5 times. For most games I only replay through them once or twice (unless if it's rogue-like like the Binding of Isaac). 5 times is really pushing it, especially for a MMORPG.