6th Class Idea - Alchemist

Hopefully this is the right place for this.

After a discussion about the upcoming Fruma expansion to Wynncraft, some guildmates and I had a discussion about what a potential sixth class could be. While a new class has not been confirmed or even reputably rumored (as far as I am aware), we had fun talking about what new spells, weapons, and abilities this new class could have. Here's what I proposed (and developed a bit further with help from my guild, [VETS]):

Alchemist class

• I think a guildmate called this general idea "magical engineer," which sounds about right.
• The general idea I had with this was that the Alchemist can create different effects using spell combos, and its archetypes would be extremely specialized in their given role - that is, Alchemist is a bit like Mage class where it is completely reliant on spells to achieve maximum efficacy.

Weapon - Bottle

• It's just an empty bottle, for now.
• The idea I had was that it gets thrown, like an archer's arrow but a bit shorter range.
  • Does damage by hitting enemies, maybe a very small shrapnel effect so it's distinguished from archer.
• Could be reverse spell-casting, like the archer, or regular spell-casting.
• Comparable to a splash potion in vanilla, but more range and it does more than just give effects.

Spells - Ingredients

• Each spell adds a different ingredient to the Bottle.
  • Attacking with the Bottle while an ingredient is in the Bottle can change the effects of the Bottle's impact.
  • For example, First Spell may add some sort of explosive powder to the Bottle, and when thrown, the bottle now explodes, doing more damage and having an increased area of effect.
• Ingredients could be stacked to create different effects.
  • If First Spell is explosive powder and Third Spell is poison powder, I could cast those two spells to add those powders to my Bottle; when I throw the Bottle, then, it will create an explosion effect and poison enemies it hits.
• There would be a limit to ingredients in the Bottle so that concoctions don't get too crazy.
  • If I added three First Spell ingredients to the Bottle, those would stack, of course, but I couldn't get like a hundred explosive powders in the Bottle and nuke Cinfras off the map.
• Bottles can be thrown at allies, enemies, and yourself, and its effects will vary depending on the target.
  • Allies and self will receive the positive effects, such as healing, sprint regen or speed, resistance, etc.
• Ingredients would change depending on which archetype is selected.
  • First Spell and Second Spell may remain the same or have similar effects across all archetypes, just so all of them can do some basic damage and move quickly.
• The mobility spell (RRR or LLL, more likely than not) could either be a generic hop deal, like Assassin's Dash or Shaman's Haul, or it could be an ingredient that gives a crapload of speed in the Bottle.

Archetypes - Herbalist, Occultist, and Conjuror
(I'm not very creative, so the names are just some synonyms I Googled for "Alchemist.")

• The Herbalist focuses on stat changes and regen. Very nature-y kind of guy.
  • The DPS on this archetype is probably the worst of the three because it's more of a support archetype than a solo-damager.
  • It's not going to be completely helpless, but again, it's for stat changes and regen, like a healer/buffer rolled into one.
  • Ingredients would give effects such as gradual health regen to allies (like a health regen potion that gives health over time instead of instantly, making it different from Mage's Heal), mana regen (again, gradual thing so it's not completely busted), and maybe sprint regen for Second Spell.
  • When thrown at enemies, the effects would be negative, such as lowered defenses, lowered move speed, and lowered attack power.
  • Herbalists can do basic damage still with First Spell ingredients.
  • If a sprint regen ingredient replaces the normal Second Spell ingredient for Herbalist, there might have to be an ability in the ability tree that gives Herbalist increased speed while sprinting and extra sprint duration to make it a bit more balanced.

• The Occultist focuses on very big damage in single potions. Nasty sort of dude.
  • This archetype is supposed to be the highest DPS of them all.
  • The main idea of this guy is he can stack many more ingredients in his Bottle than the other archetypes for big damage, and stacking ingredients of the same type together may boost the damage even further.
  • Each ingredient gains a boost in offensive capabilities for the Occultist, and some ingredients may change, such as a stat-boosting ingredient changing to an ingredient that does massive elemental damage or something.
  • Additionally, by shifting while casting a spell/adding an ingredient, the Occultist can add his own blood to the Bottle to increase the potency of the brew dramatically.
  • The idea behind the blood-draw thing is that it would be too easy to ingredient-spam as Occultist, so by locking the really big damage behind a sort of skill-wall, players are forced to think more about how many potions they can throw out before they have to heal.
  • At the same time, the archetype will still be "fully" playable at a more casual level, since the higher DPS is not completely locked behind the blood-draw.
  • As for healing after blood-drawing, one of the ingredients may change to a health-restoration ingredient, or there could be something on the ability tree that will restore health if some damage-dealing condition is met. I haven't gotten that far.

• The Conjuror functions as an AOE, similar to Shaman but with more technical spell-casting.
  • This guy is like an alternative to the Shaman for big AOE.
  • My current idea is that the Conjuror's attack range is significantly decreased from the other classes, and his First Spell is changed to "Cauldron" or something of the like.
  • Cauldron places (or maybe short-range throws, like Totem) a cauldron on the ground that stays there for maybe a minute or so, haven't really gotten that far.
  • Attacking the Cauldron with the Bottle weapon will add a little bit of some substance (doesn't matter what, could be ramen noodles or something) that starts to boil.
  • As the substance boils, enemies around the Cauldron take bits of damage, increasing as time goes on. Range doesn't really have to increase, maybe that's something for further down in the ability tree.
  • Instead of adding ingredients to the Bottle, casting spells instead throws ingredients.
  • The more base substance (the regular attack ingredient) that's in the cauldron, the more
  • If an ingredient hits an enemy, it does a little bit of damage and maybe applies some effect.
  • The main purpose of throwing ingredients, though, is to mix them in the Cauldron (so, hitting the Cauldron with an ingredient will add that ingredient to the Cauldron).
  • Conjuror is the most intricate archetype because his ingredient limit is very small and the order of ingredients added matters.
  • For example, he can add Second Spell, Third Spell, and Third Spell (while shifting, henceforth "n Spell Shift") to create a potion that lights enemies within a certain radius on fire.
  • Different potion recipes are unlocked at various points on the ability tree.
  • He's called "Conjuror" because he pulls stuff out of the Cauldron, like aforementioned fire brew, or maybe some summons that can do some basic damage, or maybe he can overlap with other classes and make healing potions or high damage potions.
  • I envisioned Conjuror to be like a funky mix of Shaman class, Trickster archetype, and maybe a bit of Fallen because he has to wait to really start dealing damage.

Cosmetics (just figured the Alchemist needed some because all the other classes have them)

• The Alchemist's helmet skin would probably be safety goggles, like these this guy made:
• Bottle skins could be stuff like a coffee mug, teacup, mason jar, maybe a Thermos, or more period-appropriate stuff like beakers, wrapped casks, or even a barrel.

That's all I got for the Alchemist. The idea for an Alchemist was inspired by the Monumenta server, though I have no clue if their Alchemist actually works the way I made my Alchemist work. I didn't put too much thought into any flaws this class may have, so if there's some glaring oversight that cripples Alchemist or makes him busted, let me know.

Again, I haven't heard any believable rumor that there is a sixth class beyond some loose speculation about the recent Fruma news. This class was pretty much just "hey what if there was a sixth," and it wasn't based on any sort of information I heard from a Wynncraft source. Hope y'all enjoyed this little speculative endeavor!

 

We don't take class suggestions, but this seems more like speculation on what a class could be instead of proposing an idea with the intention of us adding it. I'd advise posting it in the Your Work subforum, given that this isn't a suggestion we would consider.

 

please don't remove this post, the ct may not accept class suggestions but they still belong here

that said, i don't think the spell system proposed in this class fits in wynncraft though

 

They... don't though. If this was a channel where you could post any ideas we wouldn't have guidelines on what you should and shouldn't post. This is a cutting room floor where suggestions are presented for people working in those fields to consider — and we simply can't consider adding a new class based solely around a player's idea, or else we would've added more than a single class over the course of a decade

 

Just for research purposes, can you think of an idea that you would accept? I can think of 1: the raid instruction room.

 

Additions to systems or QoL elements, new minor systems (like stuff on housing), sometimes new major systems (though details would probably be fleshed out in development as opposed to by a player. Example would be something like if a player suggested to rework lootrunning, or add hunted mode, or updating the UI), ability tree changes or new abilities, "housekeeping" as I'll call it (example would be someone suggesting to update Mini-Quest signs to use a new model), and world changes (example would be the TCC-Kandon fast travel)

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Classes and Regions can't be considered because of the amount of time and planning in all departments it takes for both. All I should have to say is that Fruma has been in development for 6 years now as to why we can't just add the Blungus Province. We don't even have to consider the fact it wouldn't fit in lore wise.
Quests can't really be considered because the amount of time it takes to produce a quest. Unlike a major system change or addition like 2.0.3 lootrunning (where the core idea is what's being focused on and not the details) however, Quests require knowledge on the lore elements for even the foundation, making it incredibly difficult to cut away the 'flesh' and leave a usable 'core' of a quest suggestion.

 

Thanks.

wait what you aren’t adding blungus I can’t believ uou worst CT ever huge toxic scamming bigoted staff antisemitism racism unsubscribing from Wynncraft teh Micnraft moorpg

 

Said guidelines still do not explicitly state what the CT would likely not consider; it only states to not post suggestions that do not fit into WynnCraft. However, what people think would fit would vary wildly and thus leaves a whole lot of ambiguity; maybe that should be fixed.

 

I just don’t think that Wynncraft really needs a 6th class, especially with archetypes nowadays.

 

You cannot use the extremely basic and vague guidelines as a standard to say, "no, you can't post this!"
Those guidelines you mentioned are literally just "Go into detail", "Does it fit?", "Has it been suggested before?", "Feedback or suggestion?", and "Don't tag staff/CT".
Absolutely none of those apply to the post here. And if you're talking about the rules in the "Game & Forum Rules", none of those apply to this post either.
If there are no properly explained rules for what can be suggested or not then you have no right to remove a one based on your personal opinion. This is the suggestion subforum and whether they are accepted or not they belong here because they're suggestions. If that's a problem then it needs to be elaborated on an official rules & guidelines post.

But a bigger issue that needs to be acknowledged is that despite you listing all the things the content team would be likely to consider, you are infamous for actively going out of your way to shut down the most basic suggestions and whenever someone questions why, you're willing to write paragraph after paragraph trying to justify it in ways that really just boil down to "because I said so". There are many examples of this but the example I'll use is one where we've actually interacted, "Justice for the Maltic Witch" in which you try extremely hard to shut down an idea so basic as just having an option to spare the witch.
Thing is, none of this would be a problem if you didn't portray yourself as though you speak on behalf of the content team despite actively shutting down ideas that are not even remotely related to your own jobs on the team (to my knowledge). Granted, that doesn't apply to this specific class suggestion, but you can't list all those things under the pretense that they may be considered, when you actively fight not to consider them.

 

I agree the guidelines in their current form are incredibly nebulous. I've petitioned to have elements changed (and parts have changed), but they're vague enough that they don't really inform the player as to what they shouldn't be suggesting.
I should also note that these are guidelines, not rules. As much as I advocate for suggestions we will not consider being moved to a different place where they won't be subject to criticism, what I say also isn't rules (excluding when I bring up forum & game rules). You are allowed to post them here regardless, and my interest isn't in people not coming up with these ideas, my concern is that players will feel ignored or suspect their idea will be implemented (as they did often before I would state that classes and regions aren't things we consider) and become upset.
I think its better to be transparent that we simply cannot and would not add specific suggestions, often because of scope and planning.

I don't remove them, though. I advise a better place to post them. You don't see these posts getting deleted or locked, unless someone moderating the forums decides they should be. There isn't any rule about how these posts will be deleted, but I think it's important for players to know that a suggestion isn't feasible.

I don't, though. If you look through the majority of posts, I either do not comment because I have no input, I raise a potential criticism or flaw, or I concur that the suggestion is a good one. If that's the picture you have of me, it's one painted exclusively with my responses to posts such as this.

I personally was against it. Me thinking it doesn't fit =/= me saying a suggestion just isn't something we're able to consider.

My opinions do not represent the team, but the fact that we cannot consider adding new regions or classes on a whim is not an opinion.
Often when I use "we", I do so to make it clear that I have insight into the backstage, such as if I were to say "we have been working on Fruma for many years now".

I am a builder, mob designer (GM), modeller, lore writer (GM), and artist. I am aware of the extensive planning it takes to produce a region because I presently manage a third of Fruma.
Completely forgiven for anyone not knowing, given it wasn't until recently that I had more than just the Builder tag on my forums profile.
There are times I have overreached, namely when it came to an item suggestion. I later retracted what I said and agreed that item suggestions are actually potentially valuable, as even if the item itself wouldn't make it in game, IMs could take inspiration from player concepts.

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In short, because my post is a lot of Words Words Words:

I agree the guidelines aren't very helpful
You do not actually have to follow the guidelines, or listen to me, as neither are rules.
I don't actually shut down a lot of suggestions (though I do certainly voice it when something isnt feasible) and I'll not interact with ones I don't have input for (namely Ability tree and item stuff)
I don't represent the entire content team whenever I speak an opinion (there's definitely CT who disagree with some of my opinions with development and other stuff, I can assure you that)
I actually do a lot more things than people are aware of

 

fair

 

Since this is one of the few actual criticisms of my class idea, I guess I can respond to it.

Yep, with the five classes we've got nowadays and their archetypes, we have pretty much everything we could want. Thing is, there isn't really an "engineer" style class, as I mentioned in the original post. And yes, while it's unlikely we'll be getting a 6th class any time soon, I still wanted to float this out there because of that gap. I think having a mechanical/electrical engineer class would be silly, unnecessary, and unfitting in Wynncraft (unless it had something to do with Corkus? Kinda like how Shaman has something to do with Slykaar in Troms?), so I made a "building" class that uses something that's more portable and fits better, in my humble opinion.

Fair enough. Again, thank you for the criticism, and I'll try to address this to the best of my ability.

Normally, I'd question what you mean by "fits in wynncraft" because that's already pretty ambiguous (we have guns and high-tech mechs and massive airships, but siege warfare is still prevalent enough for walled cities to be effective), but I have a guess as to what you mean - Less lore-wise and more mechanics-wise, the spells don't do damage on their own and are really only useful in combination with the main attack. I totally understand, and yes, that's personally my biggest gripe with Alchemist as well.

While the system is very different from other classes, I would point to the Shaman as an example that different doesn't mean unfitting. If I was told that in addition to the four classes that WC had, we'd be getting one that yeets out a big ol' rock that has mad aura and also the player can cast beam attack, I'd think you'd belong in the loony bin. Furthermore, look at the Ritualist masks it uses - without Haunting Memory, those are basically just the potion ingredients applied instantly. Additionally, look at Arcanist's mana bank. That's pretty similar to the potions as well, in that it doesn't attack in any sort of way, just puts your mana back. Lastly, if I had just made the Alchemist's ingredients single-use potions, what makes it any different from Archer class? Alchemist is intentionally different because everything else has been done; we have melee class (warrior), we have range, we have heavy spellcasters, we have summoners, we have whatever you wanna call Shadestepper and acrobat, but again, no engineering class. Recycled spells from other classes would be boring, no spells would be impossible, and just mashing different spell effects together would either create something unbelievably busted or something so weak it couldn't beat that Essren guy, so really, my only option is to go down this honestly strange route.

Hopefully I was able to address y'all's thoughts well enough, and again, I realize how much work goes into classes. I watched that interview with Salted where he said there was going to be another class released with Shaman, but they just couldn't get it done. If you want to call my Alchemist speculative instead of suggestive, so be it, I don't mind.

 

I’m not sure what you mean by “engineer” style. Because when I think of “engineer,” I think of classes with turrets and traps to provide good crowd/area control, which is already covered by Trapper and Shaman in general.

Beyond that, the class just doesn’t feel unique enough to stand on its own.

 

"Engineer" is the closest term I heard for it, though a guildmate called it "magical engineer" too. Probably not the best, all things considered, because of those connotations you mentioned. I suppose a better description would be heavy-setup spellcaster except the spells are the main attack, but that doesn't quite roll off the tongue. Again, the main idea is that the alchemist uses spells to change/modify/buff the main attack. Closest comparison I can draw is how the Arcanist's main attack gets some explodey bits and I think a damage boost when the mana bank is above a certain threshold.

I'm willing to guess that you'd know more about archetype names than me, so how would you name something with primarily AOE damage mixed in small part with the idea of "striking at the right moment"? Think splash potions in vanilla, where they're pretty great for mobs grouped together but crap for mobs that have surrounded you. That's what the Alchemist was originally supposed to do: the player has to round up mobs on his own, brewing potions or whatever in the meantime, and when all the mobs are close enough together, the Alchemist can throw the potion.

Why's that? I got some feedback that said it was too different before, now this. I'm fascinated.

 

You directly compare your class to Shaman, with the Occultist and Conjuror being the most similar to Shaman and Herbalist being the most similar to Mage. Since Shaman already excels at AOE damage and Mage already excels at healing and support, there isn’t anywhere for your class to excel by itself. Especially if the class is designed to wait to do more burst AOE damage and the healing is slower than Mage. While the mana and sprint regen buffs are unique they’re not worth the trade off of worse healing and seem hard to balance.

 

Mainly, I think there would be a major problem with the attack input scheme. Most people do not play with spell macros, so having a system where spells are activated only once (though I'm unsure if this is what you mean by "ingredients") with a melee attack would be frustrating.