Game Mechanics 5th and 6th Spells (currently early-posted!)

As I was reading/critiquing my old ideas in a Google Doc, a thought occurred to me the other day:

It IS possible to have 5th and 6th Spells in the game. In fact, if someone even crazier than me wanted to suggest it (and likely get the usual backlash for it), there's a less-intuitive way to have 7th and 8th Spells, too!

What I'm referring to - and will theorycraft brand new Spells/Archetypes for each Class to expand upon - are the following Inputs: [R-L-Q] to input a 5th Spell and [R-R-Q] to input a 6th Spell.

Most Minecraft servers already HAVE an anti-drop feature on specific items! That's how Quest Items haunted my past self: They just refused to be dropped, and would send a reprimanding signal in chat for my eyes specifically. Sounds like what Right and Left Click are already doing to let you cast Spells, huh?

So, imaginary/scarecrow Q&A Time!

Spoiler: Right here, for those interested

Feel free to respond to these in the comments, I could always use feedback!

Q: Why post this idea early, anyways?
A: In case someone besides yours truly comes up with a better use for this than 5th/6th Spells that expand upon each Class in an optional but highly satisfying way. Additionally, getting reception before dropping the big *Blaster is good for mentally prepping myself.

Q: How would Spell-modifying IDs on Items affect these?
A: Simple: They're affected the same way as a pre-existing Spell on a Class-by-Class basis. And also listed on the Item descriptions, since the system can do that already. (Changes in ID desc. text can be coded to check which Weapon they're on - I can't imagine it takes the same .)

Q: Why do this when Major IDs exist?
A: Why have Archetypes when Major IDs exist?

Q: Wouldn't you risk dropping the Weapon after casting a Spell?
A: You can just give the item anti-drop immunity for a second or two after a Spell is cast. If not that, dropping the Weapon because you didn't pay attention to the loud, obtrusive chime going off is sort of your own fault.

Q: If you're so hellbent on Spell variety, why not allow Spells like [Q-X-X]?
A: Because that's how you drop Depressing/Wooden Weapons. Additionally, I just want two new Spells per Class, since that'll be enough to round out every Class without rocking the boat all that much.

Q: Why not use Sneaks or Jumps as Spell Inputs?
A: Those are both unintuitive and already used in the Ability Trees. Double Jumps, Sneak Variants of Spells, Acrobat Gliding, and Powder Specials would all stay intact!

Q: How're you balancing these new Spells?
A: So far, I'm taking advantage of the fact that they cost Mana to cast. Additionally, a lot of them aim to keep their Classes' signature weaknesses and strengths intact, but help them achieve their strengths in fresh ways! Mage won't get easy damage below Meteor, Shaman isn't gaining easy single-target damage, and Warrior is NOT getting natural Self Healing! (An unprecedented thing, given the Acadee track record of making Tanks good at their job.)

Q: How much will these new Spells affect their Classes' Strengths and Weaknesses?
A: Shaman and Mage's 5th and 6th Spells barely change their balance, aside from more blatantly encouraging spacing habits from newer players. Warrior and Assassin are getting 5th and 6th Spells which help shore up their problems in unique ways. Archer's just gonna be more fun!

Q: Wouldn't this hurt the Spell Cycling balance?
A: Since the rework to Intelligence and the general 2.0 changes to Abilities, it's not gonna be too big of a deal. Plus, you get so many 1st-to-4th Spell Discounts from the bottom 3 Archetypes that it won't really matter to any of the current DPS metas. Are you really gonna bother with a 25-40 base cost Spell that doesn't have much to do with your Archetype once you're fully kitted out?

Q: What're the biases at play here?
A: Ability Tree-wise, I believe that Shaman and Archer are in healthy places up to what I've played (Level 50 Shaman), and don't need big increases in power to come from their 5th and 6th Spells. In other words, they're sidegrades more for funsies than helping their strengths. Mage and Warrior are both looking fine with their new 5th/6th Spells, and Assassin...Well, I'm still trying to figure out a good balance for "bringing back pre-2.0 power" and "respecting the balance decisions made by Wynncraft's devs." I've come to appreciate a lot of Wynncraft's design decisions, and won't be rocking the boat that much.

Q: ...You're giving 5th and 6th Spells to that old Class you made, aren't you?
A: Scarecrow, you know me too well. Though, the Pilot Class is getting a lot of design time in the oven first, and they'll be...different than you remember!

Q: Will you ever stop trying to expand the Classes?
A: Nope. But I've developed a new, compromise-focused philosophy for doing so. Have a good day!

Q: Will you ever stop trying to expand the Classes?
A: My current plans can be found in the Spoiler-within-a-Spoiler below. Don't discuss these too much directly, please, just vaguely hint at them. These are spoilers/teasers for a future post of mine, and are due to change! (I'm so very tempted to spoil their names, but good things come to those who wait for the full release/post!)

Spoiler: New Archetypes and Spells super-early???

Sorry, just for Archer and Shaman right now! Their full functions will be revealed in their main posts!

Archer Spells
[R-L-Q] - Barrage
[R-R-Q] - Camp
Upper Archetypes:
M.P. (Constant Firing, Hybrid Support)
L.D. (Homing Fire, Wall Defense)

Shaman Spells
[R-L-Q] - Tornado
[R-R-Q] - D. Dance
Upper Archetypes:
E.X. (Spell Speed, Semi-Burst)
N.M. (Snowball, Forum-Exiled)

 

swap hands is less annoying than drop

 

I don't really know what to think about 5th and 6th spells. Seems like a big shift, but I could envision one or two extra spells as a sort of 'capstone' spell that you unlock at the end of an Archetype.
I do agree, swap hands would be better. It's not in use at present, since Wynn hasn't updated Minecraft-wise to a point where it'd be a usable mechanic IIRC. In fact, if you had Swap Hands as a third spell-call key, then you'd be able to pull off 36 spells in total, I think.
On the other hand, we don't need 36 spells, the ability to use offhand would be interesting once Wynn finally updates to a later version (although you could just lock the offhand slot from F key manipulation, I guess?), and 2 extra spells seems weird.
If I were coming up with this, I'd say:

The 5th and 6th spells would be Archetype-related. The 5th spell is most of the way through the archetype - 70 or 80 if you're going all the way into the archetype. You obviously wouldn't be able to pick two different 5th spells, only 1 allowed. The 6th spell is a capstone, around the range of nodes like Crepuscular Ray. A bigshot spell, emblem of the Archetype, and also unique.
5th spell is reasonably distinct Archetype to Archetype. So, for example, a Mage. Lightbender 5th spell could be something like Sunshower, perhaps a large radius buff or light heal. (IE you cast the spell, 20% Slowness is applied to non-CCI mobs, and your allies get some healing.) Arcanist 5th spell would be some destructive magical attack, perhaps a laser of some kind or something that throws away everyone around. Riftwalker 5th spell would make a portal mark where you are, and when you cast the spell again, you teleport back there.
6th spell, also distinct. Taking the Mage for example again, the Lightbender 6th spell would be some sort of Super Heal, or an Overcharge (like in TF2, a game I have not played), buffs/heals your party members, possibly at the expense of yourself, or heals in the near-future. The Arcanist 6th spell would discharge the contents of the Mana Bank into a gigantic explosion, either at cursor or at self, which does humungous damage at the cost that the Arcanist also loses most regular mana, possibly even into sprint-break territory. The Riftwalker 6th spell... I dunno. I'd say, a giant storm, while you're flung into the air with flight like Crep Ray but much faster, able to rain down devastation as your Winded ranks whittle down.

 

Wynn is currently on version 1.16, the swap hands button(and the ability to use it as an input) has existed since 1.9.

 

Oh, really? So I can't log into Wynn in 1.8 or 1.12? That's interesting.
Wynn isn't using the offhand, right? Like, you can't put stuff there?

________________________________

neat
it is actually 1.16 base
i wonder what that enables them to do now?
when did this happen?

 

I was under the impression that it was 1.12 (i don't think it's been 1.8 for the 4 years I've played this game) but it could be 1.16

The game becomes extremely glitchy and it can create ghost clones of items (disappear as soon as you interact with them.)

 

Nah, man, you can! I specified Q because - last I recalled - the Q key was the default option for Dropping Items, and Wynncraft always displays what the default Minecraft keybinds are, regardless of what you map your controls to. (Hence, "Shift" to Sneak instead of Sprint like I have it set to.)

As previously mentioned, Swap Hands / Offhand isn't able to be used by 1.8 and stuff. Drop input, on the other hand, is available across basically all popular versions. Not that you should be playing without some form of Wynntils, which is currently supporting post-1.16, but still. Man, I dodged a bullet by forgetting these existed!

Well, I am THE Spell Ideas guy of Wynncraft, so it's only a matter of time until I think up good Spells which compromise between my visions for the Classes and what I can infer from the devs' intentions with the current Classes' Spells. (English books wish I had the same scrutiny and analysis notes on them.)

What you describe here seems to be like Ultimate Abilities for each Archetype, which, while not impossible to balance in a fast paced game (see Ultrakill's handling of the Railcannon), isn't the point of the 5th/6th Spells I'm envisioning. The ones I'm cooking up new art for (and who knows, maybe Command Block examples if I find time this summer to learn those) are specifically expanding the Classes' base movesets and creating new synergies between them and the 1st, 3rd, and 4th Spells while also practicing how I plan to compromise a fair bit when it comes to my ideas' potential to be implemented.

And if you want to stick with 2.0's 3 Archetypes and not bother with my custom shkit, you literally don't have to! I recall stating (or intending to state) that the two Archetypes I'm coming up with for each Class are entirely separate from the existing Archetypes, so having to spend Ability Points that won't put you deeper into the base three is doing a lot of weight-lifting when it comes to balancing them for Max Level players.

However, you bring up an excellent point - it's not a problem to have Archetype Capstone Spells, because Wynncraft has already shown a willingness to axe possibilities/other Spells (Ritualist Uproot, Shadestepper Multihit), and part of the reason I want 5th/6th Spell ideas in the game is because not using them becomes a tactical choice, especially if the Capstone Spells of these Archetypes specifically block them off. If you're going deep enough into the tree for Capstone Spells, you probably weren't using the new Spells anyways, and if you were planning to, now there's a new trade-off to consider.

 

Wynncraft's base version is now 1.16, I checked earlier. So the 1.8 concern is no longer a concern, because 1.8 can't play Wynn.

 

Even with that, I still think that Drop Item inputs - especially as 3rd Spell Inputs - are the way to go, since it's been proven to work with other functions and "not-dropping" Weapons/important items is completely unused by any other system in the game, Minecraft OR Wynncraft. RIP 1.8 Wynncraft, too, I guess.

 

absurd amount of work

 

...I take it you aren't familiar with how big my suggestion posts used to be!

 

I point to rule 2

 

I don’t see how this post is useless content. It seems like there was effort put into it and it’s pretty high quality compared to most other suggestions. Are large suggestions breaking the rules now, because they are an “absurd amount of work”? I don’t think anyone here expects 5th/6th spells to be added to the game any time soon, but I don’t see how that makes it useless or low-effort content that has no purpose. They just proposed the idea and might expand on it later, I don’t see how that is bad? Though I’d understand if further iterations of this idea would need to go in Your Work instead of here.

 

I believe the "Rule" 2 being referred here is the second guideline point in the pinned "How to Suggest" thread, which states: "Is this possible?"

 

oh yeah that makes a lot more sense, my bad