Game Design Remove or replace Nightcloak Knife on the Shadestepper Archetype

TLDR: Nightcloak knife is the most disruptive ability when playing shadestepper and I suggest that it should either be removed or replaced.

Not convinced by the TLDR? Well, you get to read through my text wall if you are interested (FYI: there is a lot of text). Whilst I have tried to remain as Objective as possible, there is a lot of critique which might appear negative.


Context
Okay, where should I begin with this ability? I guess I should provide some context to why this thread even exists. Ever since 2.0.2 came out, Assassin got revamped (mostly just buffs across the board), with Trickster and Acrobat getting some really nice changes. However, Shadestepper got two new abilities. Nightcloak Knife and Dissolution.

Whilst I think dissolution is seriously bad, at least now-a-days you can avoid it with no consequences, so it's not the focus of this thread.

Anyways, with the introduction of Nightcloak knife in 2.0.2, the Marked and Satsujin abilities also saw a damage nerf, with the one redeeming feature being Satsujin now only just has 15s cooldown per enemy, and no longer procs on melee hits. Anyways since then, basically only Nightcloak Knife has gotten some changes, and recently it got a damage nerf and a duration buff, and it now looks like this:




Why is Nightcloak Knife a bad ability?
This ability at first glance seems really good, a 40% damage bonus for 40s. How is that not good?

The reasons why this ability is absolute garbage is because:

A. This ability requires you to use vanish, which is your main offensive ability. Vanish doesn't grow on trees, it has a 5s cooldown, and if you can't kill an enemy, you are not getting it back anytime soon. You need vanish to get backstabs on enemies, you need vanish to land high damage melee / powder special hits on enemies, and you also need it to survive.

B. This ability consumes all of your marks on the enemy. Abilities like these are absolutely horrendous game design wise and it has the exact same problem as Timelocked. You spend a huge portion of the game teaching a player how to ramp up their damage, and then you add this ability that completely negates everything they have learnt. On Shadestepper it isn't too big of a deal as Marked and Nightcloak Knife are really close to each other on the ability tree so it's learnt really early on, but I will expand on this in the next point.

C. Since this ability consumes marks, it immediately has anti-synergistic properties with Harvester and Satsujin. Harvester encourages you kill enemies with marks on them to get mana back, but you've now told the player that they have to remove said marks to get their damage from the Knife. Satsujin also requires 4 marks, but it would be nice to have the damage bonus from the Knife as well, wouldn't it? So now you have to wait for an enemy to be marked again and vanish to get off cooldown, to make full use of it.

D. This ability requires you to use spin attack. Regardless of what ability tree you pick, you will always have Double Spin. Why do I bring this up? Well, when in Vanish you have access to Surprise Strike. Surprise Strike only benefits from the first hit out of vanish, so spin attack doesn't even synergize with Surprise Strike due to it having two hits. And also spin attack is the most expensive ability for a Shadestepper to cast, so not only do you not get mana from harvester - you also lose a ton of mana, which sucks because you can't regen mana in Vanish outside of the Roving Assassin Major ID. There's no point in trying to use Spin attack normally because it receives one total upgrade on Shadestepper, which isn't even that good.

E. Doesn't activate when the player hits an enemy with the 2nd spin on spin attack. So, there are so many times when a player knows they hit the enemy, but Nightcloak Knife didn't trigger, leading to confusion.

F. When you swap off of your weapon, the Nightcloak Knife disappears heavily punishing players for bringing potions. In the early game it seems very encouraging to bring them, but now that they have this ability unlocked at level 60, they are directly punished for using them.

G. Nightcloak Knife's damage bonus is applied over 5 consecutive hits separate from the initial damage, making it have extremely anti-synergistic properties with violent vortex which demands huge single target hits. (Also, one other interesting thing is how it can double dip with Marks damage bonus, but it doesn't redeem it in any meaningful capacity for being garbage).

H. And lastly if it couldn't get any worse. At base Nightcloak Knife requires you to mark at least 3 enemies (for a total of 10 marks) and have them all be in range of your first spin on spin attack, to get the full effects. This is later reduced to only 2 enemies with More Marks at the cost of waiting longer for enemies to be marked. For an archetype that seems designed around big damage hits and fighting against single targets, the fact that this ability requires multiple enemies to get the full effect is absolutely atrocious.
This is not to mention how quickly teammates can kill enemies before you can even get any marks on them, or how smoke bomb itself will kill the enemies before you have a chance to activate Nightcloak Knife.


Proposal
Oh boy, with that slog out of the way, let me finally get to the proposal.
Just downright remove this ability and buff Marked and/or Satsujin. The multi-hit nature of it doesn't fit Shadestepper in the slightest, and the activation of Nightcloak Knife only serves to piss people off by making the gameplay super slow, and unfriendly when playing with friends or in a party.

Also, I don't know, the whole companion-like thing going on with it feels just weird. I view Shadestepper as kind of like some hitman like class, and it feels weird having some companion like thing to help you.

Honestly you literally could have just added all the good changes to Satsujin in 2.0.2 and maybe buffed Better Marked, which would make Shadestepper infinitely more fun. But as of right now, all I can see are "band-aid fixes" being added to this ability, which in no way aim to address the core problems with it.
Infact, instead by adding this ability you nerfed Marked, which makes people without Mythics, have a harder time proccing the core ability Violent Vortex.


Alternatively, just replace Nightcloak Knife with an ability that actually synergizes with the kit. It probably should add more damage to prevent Shadestepper from being stuck in the eternal abyss of doing nothing due to Marked and Satusujin's nerfs explained earlier.

What shouldn't happen is the continuation of these random QOL changes that don't fix any of the issues with it, and for whatever reason inexplicably reduce its damage.


Conclusion
Anyways, if you have any other suggestions or whatever, I guess you should comment them. I have seen some great rework threads; it's just I feel like the likelihood of ever seeing them in game is never, so I'd rather settle for doing something about the worst ability on Shadestepper.

If you for whatever reason think this ability is good, I'd also like to hear why, because I have literally tried every type of build for this archetype including spell, super-fast melee and heavy melee and the only problem I have had is this ability. Hell, I even have levelled an entire Shadestepper, and found Nightcloak Knife to only ruin the experience. It absolutely ruins the flow and pacing of gameplay, and often puts you in high-risk situations with absolutely no defense or offense.

 

I do think shadestepper needs more work, but I'm not sure if night cloak is the problem.

 

Huge agree on this one. It's definitely a fun but challenging game design to try and figure out. Most stacks from "build up stacks then consume stacks to gain power" abilities are just that, stacks; they usually don't give any power by themselves. Consuming stacks that do give some power really does feel counterintuitive since it grants more power at the cost of... power... which is not the wisest trade-off to take, especially since it begs the question: why consume those stacks at all?

I'm trying to explore an ability design that makes these "empowered states" (timelock, crep ray, blood sorrow, nightcloak knife) feel like a high-octane moment that provides powerful buffs, bump up your damage, and speed up your resource gain / stack application, but can only be maintained if you keep gathering resources or stacks to feed it. I don't know if that gets rid of the problem at all, or if it's wiser to just redesign the abilities from the ground up / replace them completely. I feel like it's a good start, though. What do you think?

________________________________

I think another big issue is shadestepper's lack of built-in survivability outside of Vanish, which is made even worse with Vanish's unreliable cooldown. I guess it's more of an "archetypes have weaknesses" thing, but Nightcloak Knife making that weakness worse without providing anything meaningful or equally powerful in return really adds to the ability's iffy design.

I guess you can just build life steal but like, I think it's only fair that archetypes should be able to rely on their own "structural integrity" instead of having to rely on identifications to succeed. something something build freedom and creativity

 

Soo... half of the abilities synergize super well with hordes of mobs... on a class focused on one-hit single target damage. The other half of the abilities designed for single targets can't even reach their full potential without groups of mobs around.
It fails miserably during boss fights, even though those are just about the only times you can actually utilize Nightcloak Knife and Marked. And you can't use those abilities fully... without more mobs.
It just makes no sense at all.

I honestly think Shadestepper is a hot mess right now and needs a full revamp.

 

a reminder than where some archetypes succeed at certain things others will fall behind. That is the point of archetypes. A Riftwalker is not going to be as good as a healer as a Lightbender, just as a Fallen won't be as good at tanking as Paladin

 

I guess but this ability literally seems like it was added to make Shadestepper fall behind, not to improve it.

 

This is true, and is what makes the archetypes unique and different. However, it is not the case with Shadestepper. Shadestepper is objectively bad at what it is trying to achieve as an archetype.

As I understand it, it’s supposed to be an archetype about stacking damage to deal one huge hit to a single target that does a ton of damage. But half of the abilities (silent killer, nightcloak knife) either cannot be used altogether during boss fights without minions, or cannot reach their full potential without multiple opponents.

Which makes absolutely no sense.

Like, it seems to be trying to be single-target damage with some AoE capabilities, but instead, all of the abilities making it more versatile in group combat are heavily limiting the core abilities that define the archetype. Shadestepper has abilities that support big, single target hits, and yet it performs much better in a mob grinding scenario.

It seems like every single ability contradicts another in some way, making for an archetype with a clunky, slow, and mostly unrewarding playstyle.

 

I do agree with this. I agree that archetypes should have weaknesses and blind spots inherent to how their abilities are designed. This allows them to have room to develop strengths where they can truly shine.

However, I also believe that archetypes should be able to hold well on their own. These weaknesses should feel more like mechanical challenges to overcome, rather than straight up limitations that only feel unfair. This allows the archetypes to test their mettle against any adversary instead of being discouraged by an "inherent weakness" disadvantage.

 

I absolutely agree with this. Each archetype should have strengths and weaknesses. But with Shadestepper, it is bad at what it is trying to succeed in. It’s better in group combat where it can’t even utilize half of the abilities that make it good.

 

I personally don't mind shadestepper developing new strengths as the ability tree settles in the game. At the end of the day the ability tree is still pretty new, and it feels like the archetypes are still trying to "figure themselves out" per se.

That is to say, I'm personally open to shadestepper gaining more tools that expand what they're capable of. What I'm advocating for instead is for shadestepper to be designed in a way that allows them to flourish as who they're supposed to be in any situation. This way, players don't feel like they're being punished for picking an archetype they like by being barred off of content for being "unviable."

I'm still all for archetype weaknesses. I just believe that what "having weaknesses" means in the first place can be developed and improved further in a way that allows self-expression.

 

i just dreamt of a shadestepper buff yesterday

 

was it a good buff

 

best dream ive had

 

anyways uh
nightcloak can be entirely avoided by just not using it (most of the time if you use backstab youre not going to cast spin in vanish (in my experience)
but id rather have other abilities buffed/have a new ability because current nightcloak is just sort of incompatible with backstab shadestepper
and its sort of not worth the trouble because doing a surprise strike backstab with 6 marked is definitely more than that 40% when youre facing smaller, more soloable bosses like those in li
maybe change it to be an optional node (it already kind of is but the prerequisite is that you'd have to do marked-DEATH MAGNET-cheaper multihit 2-fspin in the atree in which death magnet is still goofy to work around with)

id say move ncloak's node to a more 'insignificant' location (and not the intersection where fatal spin is the only connection to harvester-satsujin) to make non-backstab shadestepper viable, slightly buff the main tree to compensate, and just change base backstab shadestepper to be better and less clunky to work with (theres been people who tell me "it's been like a year since 2.0 stop malding over the 5s vanish cd and the goofy ahh silent killer", screw them getting used to a shit thing doesnt mean its not shit)

________________________________

shadestepper is also pretty ap-intensive, tasking 35ap to get to satsujin without grabbing upgrades that arent required to progress to satsujin
with the same logic, acrobat takes 36 (ends at jbloom), ritualist takes 32 (ends at awakened), and bmonk takes 30(??? (ends at discomb)
i know this is a pretty :skull: comparison but it kinda shows another problem

 

oh god yes this thing

Another thing about shadestepper's strict ap requirements is that it's not really just shade: every assassin archetype requires around 45ap to take all possible archetype-oriented upgrades. The reason why trickster and acrobat doesn't feel as strict is because they don't have to pick all these upgrades to be good. Like, just look at trickrobat.

That is to say, shadestepper feels pretty incompatible with the other archetypes, even with trickster. You can't really pick up clones or Lacerate without sacrificing anything significant to shadestepper (cough violent vortex without backstab), which then ends up being a waste of ap. You can take trickster with marks but like, that's trickster with marks not shade with clones. Shade with clones is useless (unless Bamboozle-Satsujin tech hmm).

Shadestepper needs to let loose, man. If shadestepper becomes more than just about one-hit bursts, shade's tree will feel a lot less strict.

________________________________

Like, I'm still waiting for Lacerate Shadestepper which I think would feel epic when combined with Marked and Nightcloak Knife, but violent vortex gotta ruin everything.

Oh god and SURPRISE STRIKE. It only applies on a single hit

________________________________

What even is the point of Fatal Spin + Lacerate interaction when it SUCKS to take both anyways

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/build...2SN0DX00000000001g000000z0z0+0+0+0+0---Fwh2R6

 

wtf bamboozle satsujin
that works?

 

make surprise strike next spell or melee damage boost instead of next hit

 

Probably? It should, right? Since it's still Multihit and all

________________________________

Right??? That's how I thought it works.

 

I do want to follow up on this point. Timelocked definitely is by no means a good comparison, the only reason I ever really mentioned it is because it had the absorb X amount of status effect thing prior to Nightcloak Kinfe's addition.

The reason why it isn't a good comparison is because marks build up significantly faster (2s).

Though I believe server lag is also to blame for this misconception. Since there have been times where marks feels like it has taken near 6 seconds to buildup, making it kind of annoying to time it with vanish to get Nightcloak Knife.

 

It used to work in the beta and it looked so cool. Idk why they removed it.

________________________________

Same with like summoner. Shepard has to be one of the most useless shaman ability for an archetype centered around single target.