Progression Remove the ID system (among other things).

I don’t think you understand how long it takes to level up crafting/gathering. The reason we want to keep profs optional is because it takes over 5 hours to level up one gathering profession 10 levels around mid-end game without bombs. If you want to grind 20+ hours to get 10 more quests (actual content) then go play lowpixel groundblock. This isn’t even considering the amount of time it would take to get good ingredients, get bad ingredients for leveling crafting profs, leveling up combat xp from mob kills because quest xp is lowered, and leveling up crafting profs. TLDR: if you want to play a grindy mess go play skyblock.

 

My point is that you calling large chunks of the map "useless" because you're over leveled for it is a dumb criticism because it indicates that the content you skipped is not required for progression. If you have to do everything and go everywhere to progress, it isn't optional content anymore and games with no decision making during progression are typically bad,

The idea that you should be using the markets to progress your character pre-endgame is laughable outside of a few cases since 1) most players don't know what items to look for in the market, and 2) even if they did know they could either not afford the items because even low level items are typically expensive or worse yet, they can't get them because most of the market leans towards endgame gear. It's also almost never worth buying gear from the market either outside of a few exceptions like the adventurers set too since you'll spend way too many emeralds on gear you outgrow too quickly because thankfully leveling in this game isn't a tedious slog outside of progressions.

Beyond professions, mobs only drop a tiny amount of emeralds and gear, remove gear from that and they essentially drop nothing at which point they are basically just walking XP which leads to balance issues when your level is high but you don't have the gear to back it up. By dropping items, as your level increases your stats do too which is extremely important in a game where leveling up doesn't just increase your stats outright like in other games. There needs to be some way to balance out player levels with stats and that's one of the ways it's done.

Yeah, and that's called good game design. You didn't need to think it or feel compelled to do it, you just naturally did without even thinking about it. Also, name one major city you skipped getting to 100 because unless you're actively trying to not enter Detlas, Almuj, Nessak, Troms, Llevigar, Olux, Cinfras, Corkus, Amsord or the one in the SE whose name is escaping me, I can all but guarntee you made a layover in each of them at least once in a normal play through. Even the fastest speedrun in the game hits most of them.

If it's so unlikely that it's impossible then it's bad design because there's no clear line in the sand of what is and isn't possible and if it's so weak that it isn't better than what we currently have then you just have the current system which is fine as is and far simpler so there's no need for change. If you're going to pitch the ability to use unlimited materials to make, in your words, an overtuned item, there had better be a reason to do so because based on your only example, it just sounds like you want crafting to be entirely useless. Either way it's just a bad idea. Based on your other comments, it seems like you have no clue about crafting since you haven't actually done much of professions yet so it's weird that you think you know so much about the crafting system.

That's a nice opinion, but thankfully it isn't the popular one.

Based on how bad most of these takes are, it sounds like you are though. If you want to play out your bad ideas, just go play skyblock.

 

I think the biggest issue with your suggestions is that they go against many of wynncraft's core mechanics and values as a game. Implementing them would cause such a difference in the way the wynncraft is played that it may as well be a different game. If wynncraft was entirely centered around professions as the main mechanic, like you're suggesting, then most players would likely quit because they're not playing wynncraft anymore, they're playing farming simulator on the wynncraft map with wynncraft mobs. Wynncraft has become quite successful doing the things that it does and it frankly doesn't need to change its core mechanics. Once again, the majority of the playerbase could care less about professions. They'd rather they stay optional and mostly ignored. If you want to see a minecraft mmo rpg with a crafting system like the one you're suggesting, that's great. Go make it yourself. I honestly think it could turn out really well with enough time and attention. Just don't expect people to give you a positive reception when you suggest turning an already well established game on its head. Just to give an example, if Nintendo decided to turn Animal Crossing New Horizons into a JRPG, the entire animal crossing community would be upset. It doesn't matter how good the JRPG might be, the animal crossing players still would be angry because they want to play animal crossing, not a JRPG. The changes to professions you are suggesting are the metaphorical equivalent of turning animal crossing into a JRPG. I have nothing against JRPGs and think they can be quite fun, but please don't ruin something that I and other people really enjoy just to rebuild it into something completely different.

 

where would you get item drops from if not from mobs? are you suggesting it is a good idea for the only way to obtain items to be through chests or market? do you understand they'd have to double or triple the amount of chests on the map to compensate for an idea like that, and also double/triple the amount of caves? are loot chests going to fill faster now? how are you compensating for ironman gameplay with your market-heavy item economy? what will happen to items that only drop from specific mobs? what would you do to compensate the fact that mobs would be quite literally pointless to kill outside of xp? with a solely chest-based loot system, your ability to meaningfully progress your gear will be halted if you swap servers, as it may be 20+ minutes until you can find any good loot again, which is where a lot of casual players would just log off. what would you do to compensate for that? I want you to further elaborate on point one and convince me that you have solutions to these concerns of mine, or else I really dont believe in your idea

 

Now THIS actually has some validity behind it. While I don't think that weapon mob drops should be removed, (they're pretty important to stop players from ignoring all the overworld enemies) if you made it so that stronger mobs dropped stronger items on average, it would reward the player more on skill and not on luck. For example, you could apply this to enemies like the corrupted alters and hexes scattered around the emerald trail, or the rare purple star mobs in various other regions (yeah they drop rare ingredients already, I know. Why not rarer gear too?)

 

If you want an incentive to explore the map, we already have it. Quests and discoveries are great ways to level up, and lead you to every inch of the map. Mob grinding spots also are all over. More grinding is not fun to most people. And crafting is already op enough.

 

Content you have literally no incentive to interact with isn't content. Places like half moon island are completely glossed over in one's mad dash through the equipment ladder. Just saying "Optional content!" isn't really getting us anywhere here. I know you don't have to interact with the content. Not only that, but you're passively discouraged from doing so by the fact that there's an easier alternative somewhere much more convenient. I'm pointing out that with some changes, you now have a reason to go there. Anyone determined to get mana steal at level 30 might consider going to half moon island to get the ingredients. Someone who doesn't care either way might just buy something "good enough" from a merchant, or maybe do a boss altar for set items or something.

Economics continue to be a thing, even on Minecraft. The ingredients will sell for what they're worth on the market. I don't see the problem here. Maybe more people will sell their rotten flesh on the market in response to forces. Maybe they won't.

No, I got equipment coincidentally. The motivating factor is quests; I randomly got the loot as a side-effect. And as a result, chunks of the map were ignored.

"Major cities"? None. Major points of interest? Bear zoo island, the nameless island just north of it, half moon island, the cliffside manor, just to name a few off the top of my head.

Ok. So not unlimited. What about just "more"? You can see the advantage of actually being able to craft better stuff at a cost, but somehow the possibility of failure makes this "useless" to you. And I'm pretty sure if I don't nip this whole "unlimited" thing in the bud, you'll cling to it 'till you die. So fine. So what if you get to just add "more" if you're over-levelled or something? Because my god, I really can't understand what exactly your complaint is right now.

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Merchants, dungeons, boss altars, raids, crafting, quests...

You know. All the other places you can get items. The point is to encourage people to spread out into a more diverse set of activities and locations. As it stands, there are places that are pointless to go to, merchants that are pointless to talk to, and activities that are pointless to do because you literally have no reason not to just walk into a crowd of mobs, throw out a spell, and suck up their loot. You know the mask merchant in the Pigman Ravine sells actual gear? You need to find materials for them around the ravine. Are the masks decent for the level? I don't know, I usually find something better while hunting for the ingredients just by killing the mobs that get in my way. At which point, I have to ask why anyone even went through the trouble of making the little system in the first place instead of having him be just a quest NPC.

What about them?

And materials. But you say that like xp is a poor motivating factor. Also, do people really just sit around killing mobs deliberately in hopes of getting better equipment? Would you really ignore them all save for the fact that they drop loot that's occasionally not as bad as what you have now?

If you're a casual player, I feel like you're not the kind of person to "grind" chests for loot. Feels pretty "not casual", you know? Sounds like you'd do some quests, visit the clearly-marked shops, and grind the clearly-marked dungeons... if you weren't just handed drops by that zombie that was following you just outside the farm.

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It's half the impetus for this post. I just know that it's easy to make do with whatever the game gives you if you still get random mob drops. I know I don't technically need legendary anything to finish the quests I'm assigned. In my mind, removing the random drops makes power spikes less random and unearned. When you go ahead and break through a challenging fight, it's because you prepared for it like any sane warrior would. But yes, even just making rarer mobs drop rarer stuff on average would be an improvement.

 

Tired of splitting quotes so here you go:

Hard disagree, having a reason beyond fun to do it isn't part of the definition of what content is. Maybe you think it's not worth doing because the fun factor isn't there, but that's a separate issue. Not everything needs to contribute to progress.

Economics are exactly why expecting to buy low level gear at a reasonable price is dumb, each player has a limited number of selling slots and it's a waste of emeralds to use them selling low value items to poor, low level players over selling endgame items to the players who actually have money. Again, progression isn't tied to level alone, it's tied specifically to gear which requires level. You need gear and it's unreasonable to expect players to go to the trade market to get it, especially when the current system works perfectly to keep gear on pace with player level.

You got equipment coincidentally because you were doing stuff which gives equipment. The fact that you don't even realize that you progressed extremely naturally and have yet to reflect on why that might be a good thing over say, requiring players to go out of their way to get equipment to match their level, equipment which will last essentially no time since levelling is fast, is shocking. Yeah you skipped parts of the map, you chose to not go to them because you didn't need to but maybe, just maybe consider that different people chose to skip different things and having skippable content means everyones journey to 100 can be different. To get the full potential of this game, you need to take 5 characters to 100, it would be extremely boring if every characters route to the end looked exactly the same.

I originally said major city or point of interest, nothing in the ocean except for Selchar counts for that. Points of interest are things like dungeons, raids and places you can teleport to, not every side build in the game. Those are called side builds and minor cities which exist to add to the world, not to be regularly visited or major sources of content.

Progress is progress I suppose, at least you understand that the concept of infinity is generally a bad idea for these things. As for why not more, why not less? 6 is an arbitrary number based on how they wanted the UI to look and the items were balanced around it, adding more would make that effort put into balancing (which was a lot of effort by the way) go to waste. If you want to pitch an overhaul to crafting go for it but nobody will agree with your pitch if you don't have a good argument ("why not more?" is not good enough) and even better solution.

Unrelated, but RJJ had some really good points and just saying "what about them" to a massive group of items is a pretty weak response. You clearly haven't given any thought to the actual impact of any of these ideas. Also, saying that you want to remove random, large powerspikes by removing mob gear drops is pretty stupid considering you support getting gear from the randomly spawning, randomly generated chests which can have far more random and broken items in them... If anything contributes to massive and random power spikes it's chests since at least you can grind a mob for a drop eventually where as you may never get a chest which has been around long enough to chance a rare drop, much less the one you want.

None of what you've written in this thread makes any sense, you're extremely pro pure chance based weapon progression for crafting and chests but you're also extremely anti random chance progression from other sources? Those stances make no sense in tandem.

 

If you want to explore because you're bored, feel free to do that. There's no reason to force people to go out of their way to play the game; side content exists for people who want it, but isn't forced for the people who don't.

Most people don't want to have to do profs any time they need an updated build. The only alternative to them in that case would be quest gear or dungeon gear. Also, you're proposing getting rid of lootrunning effectively, (I think) which is, in my mind, in the same category as profs.

Maybe I'm just dumb, but what stronger equipment is made with barley? You get string and grain.

The ability to use better resources is the only incentive anyone would need for upgrading their ability in my opinion. Also, being able to use as many materials as you want would be ridiculously overpowered.

No. No. No. Is it not enough that for pretty much every level 90-100 you have to do that levels quest, that levels slaying post, and then 3 secret discoveries? Spending several more hours than before at a grind spot just to be able to get to the next quest doesn't sound like an improvement to me.

There's a reason I hated the shadow of the beast quest. This is the reason. I had to get 20 levels up in several professions I hadn't touched since cook assistant.

That would only serve to make it grinder and less enjoyable. The way I see it, if the game is made longer then share should also be new content to make it worth the extra time.

 

Oh my god, it's low-level gear. Just buy from a merchant, or make your own, or finish a quest, or a dungeon. Or hell, just use your starting equipment. It's not hard. You're literally playing in the easiest part of the game! Stop bringing up the market for people who need it the least. Even if we got rid of literally all other sources of equipment, you're in the starting area, with starting area materials within 3 minutes of the town, if even that. Kill two zombies, buy a pickaxe, an axe, and a scythe. The rest is right in front of you, and the tutorial's taught you how to craft by now. The hardest part is finding the wheat right in town because you probably went down the main road. Bring a better argument, because making equipment for people literally starting off takes twenty minutes, tops, if you want to make really good stuff.

Again: Saying "Optional content!" isn't convincing. I'm pointing out that there's no incentive to go naturally outside my own burning curiosity.

Then we have a tautology: "During the course of the game, did you skip any of the things you're supposed to visit during the course of the game?"

Well no, boss. I didn't skip the things I'm directed to go to. But I skipped a bunch of other stuff that I wasn't directed to go to.

There's no "progress", you're just being obtuse, and I'm trying to see if changing the discussion will get you to actually explain whatever your problem is. Because until now, you're just saying "Optional content!", and telling me crafting would be useless like this... somehow.

 

The only one here being obtuse is you. You're complaining about me talking about the market for low level players but you're the one who said that was a solution to the problem in the first place and I just pointed out how stupid that suggestion was, now you're mad about that. Content you don't need to do is optional, you're mad that stuff exists which you can skip, that's pretty dumb. You're pitching making crafting a core part of progression, nobody wants that.

Your ideas aren't even coherent, all your ideas of loot drops are hard countered by your idea for making OP weapons spawn from pure luck. I don't need to bring any "better arguments" here because I'm not making any arguments, I as well as many others are pointing out all the reasons why your pitches are awful and would make the game worse, it's really that simple. No reason to resort to name calling.

It's not to late to admit your ideas are bad, I promise if you do a little reflection and play the game for more than say, 20 minutes, nobody will make fun of you for it, we all have shit takes sometimes it's really nothing to be ashamed of.

 

Not to mention merchants, potentially raids, and boss altars.

String's used for tailoring and woodworking. So boots, pants, bows, wands, and reliks. We'd be talking about equipment from level 10 to 19.

That would be the idea, yeah. If every ingredient, say, halved your chance of success, you'd logically want to minimize the number of ingredients you use. And the only way to do that is to make a higher-level recipe, and use higher-level ingredients. The idea is to have a soft cap on your craft, not a hard cap. Almost definitely easier said than done, but I imagine it's possible to make it more efficient to just use high-quality ingredients instead of spamming a bunch of bad ones.

I only had this "problem" past level 100. And it was just a matter of finding a slayer post to pass the time.

Also yes: Lari is, in fact, superior to Ava.

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Yeah, no. Literally nobody needs to use the market at low levels to save 10 minutes of work. And nobody does. All the other posters seem able to actually criticize the idea effectively without telling me how expensive it would be for a level 2 to buy all his stuff.

 

Said in response to:
"Terrible idea, getting random drops during progression is fun and gives you a reason to go back to towns to get marginal upgrades instead of just grinding for hours on end with no end in sight."

Unless you didn't mean what you yourself wrote then maybe actually what you write next time?

 

What level 2 reaches level 60 in any profession?

 

If you actually read the chain you responded to, it had nothing to do with professions, it was specifically about random gear drops so either that reply was poorly written or you didn't actually read what I wrote. Pick your poison.

For context, here's what I originally quoted, from the post:

No mention of materials here, nice try though.

 

Yeah, then we're back to not really understanding what your complaint is. This problem seems exclusive to you, since I've reached an understanding with everyone else. You should work on your communication skills. Maybe take a page from... literally anyone else on here.

 

Is there a particular problem with this? If a player isn't curious about the wider wynncraft world and just wants to focus on the more fleshed out parts (quests, combat, the current item system), then why force them to? It's the job of a game developer to make sure their game is fun. If a player wants to focus on some things and not others, who are you to tell them they're wrong? Masahiro Sakurai, game designer extraordinaire, made a video that (while touching on a different topic) has some relevant information to this issue. The video is called Try Telling That to the Player, and in it Sakurai says "If you think they won't like something, try looking for other possible solutions." While this quote specifically is encouraging game designers to value the player's experience over their ease of development, it can be extended to the problem we have here. So, you're here posting on the forums about some changes you'd like to see. You think it would make wynncraft a better game. However, as you can probably already tell, the majority of players really don't like the suggestions, and think they will make the game less fun. So, take it into consideration that these ideas you have might not be the best for the game. Remember, the player comes first.
Also here's a link to the video go subscribe to Masahiro Sakurai he's one of the greatest people on this planet.

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This too. This is exactly what I'm getting at. People enjoy Wynncraft BECAUSE of the main gameplay loop. Telling them to go do something else is against the design philosophy of "the player comes first."

 

"1) Get rid of Equipment drops. It really doesn't make sense anyway that a maggot drops Legendary equipment, but to boot, its existence removes any incentive I have to craft it in the first place. Not to mention the random loot chests." - You, talking about equipment drops.

"Terrible idea, getting random drops during progression is fun and gives you a reason to go back to towns to get marginal upgrades instead of just grinding for hours on end with no end in sight." - Me, in response to your bad take about Equipment Drops.

I don't see how this makes you "grind for hours on end" unless the process really gets that much worse after level 60 and the markets suddenly disappear. Did they prevent you from buying materials and ingredients since I made this post? - You, bring up the market to get early game items, apparently not talking about equipment drops which was the point this whole back and forth was about in the first place. Of course I'm going to assume you're talking about equipment, that's the only thing that was being talked about in the first place.

And yet I'm the one who needs to work on communication? Right....

Also I think you're giving yourself too much credit, nobody has come to an understanding with you, they just realized that you have no idea what you're talking about and have given up on trying to convince you otherwise, like me, just now.

 

wait so you want to get rid of one of the things that make wynncraft so unique? get rid of the extensive class building and work that has been done over all these years?

YOU WANT TO GET RID OF MY ONE AND ONLY NO MYTHIC NO CRAFTED 100-106 BUILDS THREAD (thank you no soul and deltawave)

 

the goat actually replied to every question I had, damn, I respect the forums grind