Game Design Partial Mythic Rework

Hello everyone. Several weeks ago, I created this thread detailing my thoughts on the game's drop rates for items of the Mythic tier. The purpose of this new thread is to "recap", as it were, some of the major points on that thread, talk about some other problems with items in the Mythic tier, and, finally, to offer some potential suggestions for ways to improve the way that the game treats these items.

I should preface this by saying that I am not against, in any way, the concept of a hyper-rare tier of item. While this creates an awkward economic situation with a potentially huge wealth gap (not unlike the one we see in Wynn), they create an interesting goal to work towards and are, of course, incredibly dopamine-inducing.

The main issue is how the game deals with these. Specifically, the fact that they only drop due to random chance - excluding the Forgery Chest (which is not an ideal way to obtain Mythic items by any means, and even this has an element of luck to it) is an issue. This means that players can play for hundreds of hours and not obtain a single one, whereas others can play for as few as 102 (specifically, myself) and obtain multiple.

This, simply put, is absurd. There are those who would have Agility completely reworked or removed simply because it relies on luck, whilst the base of the entire Wynncraftian economy relies on much more skewed and high-value luck.

One way of fixing this would be to give some sort of "playtime reward", where playing for a certain number of hours (perhaps five hundred or even a thousand would suffice) would grant you a free Mythic item, although this, I suppose, would lead to mass AFK-ing (leaving the Wynncraft server running while partaking in other activities for the sole purpose of gaining playtime). One way to fix this could be to also require a certain total Combat Level (across all classes), so that AFK playtime would be essentially ignored. This idea still needs more "fleshing out" and is incomplete, but I thought I should share my thoughts on this matter regardless.

Secondly, the variety in the prices of Mythic items. This is such a big issue that it must have been covered before, but the fact that a mythic that can be sold and purchased for eleven stacks has the same rarity as one that can be sold for less thirty-two liquid emeralds is, frankly, absurd. Working the same amount of time to get something that varies more than twenty-two times in value is ridiculously luck-based, when Wynncraft seems to at least attempt to be a game based on skill.

Finally, touching more on that last point, the luck required to find Mythics. The most effective (or "meta") way of obtaining Mythics, to my knowledge, simply requires opening chests, a practice which requires little to no skill. For a game that has a sizeable skill requirement for effective use of its weapons and combat system, this is quite strange, and feels like a misplaced lottery that someone threw in because they had no other ideas.

Thank you for your time.

 

That would be pay2wynn, since people with ranks would be able to get a higher total combat level, and will be able to do that more easily.

 

Assuming it is "one you reach x levels" and not "you get one every x levels" it is fine

 

Bump, ten characters.

 

Ever since mythics were introduced in the Gavel update, I always disliked them. They’re just way too luck based.

 

yes please

 

I'm not sure about the playtime rewards, but I do think a a non rng based way to get mythics would be nice

 

There is a guaranteed method of getting mythics, it's via Forgery Chest

 

isn't this still quite rng, 1% per full run?

 

With CGG coming, rate should be 1.5*(1.01^n) where n is number of runs. So rate is multiplied by 1.01 if you did not receive a mythic for every full 8/8 run (and the rate doesn't reset if you die or anything, only when you actually pull a mythic)

 

While the Forgery Chest is certainly a step in the right direction, it remains luck-based - a person could obtain five mythics in twenty forgery runs while another must wait 35 runs to get a single one.
The Forgery is also a highly inefficient way to obtain mythics. If it were the "meta" method for doing so, I would be less upset about the luck required, as the Forgery Chest is, at least, less poorly designed than lootrunning.

 

Me with 45 Forgery runs dry pre 2.0, and 21 dry post 2.0. I have yet to get one, and I am sure someone has it worst then me.

 

Even with this, 100 forgery runs is still around 3-4 mythics, assuming standard luck.

 

Each run is 5 minutes if you speed run it, times 7 dungeons is 35 minutes. Not including time between runs like making keys, waiting for your emeralds to drop, and opening the chest. 100 runs is about 58 hours. More efficient than diving in Selchar reefs lmao.

 

In my experience (and the experience of those I've spoke with), each dungeon takes 7-10 minutes - perhaps you have some powerful items that they do not, however five minutes for a single dungeon is an unrealistic expectation. Assuming the bare minimum of seven minutes (and no deaths whatsoever), that would make 56 minutes per Forgery run (bear in mind, there are now eight dungeons - that's the number that "100 runs" comes from). The cost of Runes must be factored in, too. Nii runes are currently priced around 5 emerald blocks per each, Uth runes at around 2, and Tol runes at approximately 4. Assuming that the broken keys are all obtained for free, that's 83 emerald blocks per run. Assuming 4 mythics takes 93 hours (give or take), and 8300 emerald blocks must be spent (that's 129.6875 Liquid Emeralds - over two stacks), you would then have to calculate the average price of a Mythic.

Instead of taking the mean of the various Mythics, I'll be taking the median, as it's much easier to find.

Spoiler: Median Mythic Prices (approximate)

Convergence - 5stx
Quetzalcoatl - 2.5stx
Epoch - 15stx
Immolation - 7.25stx
Oblivion - 9stx
Fatal - 2stx
Revenant - 0.5stx
Singularity - 4stx
Stratiformis - 8stx
Warp - 14stx
Monster - 3stx
Spring - 6stx
Warchief - 0.75stx
Absolution - 12stx
Collapse - 3stx
Divzer - 8stx
Gaia - 0.75stx
Inferno - 4stx
Nirvana - 8stx
Stardew - 1stx
Catclysm - 6.5stx
Dawnbreak - 0.5stx
Fantasia - 3stx
Grimtrap - 2stx
Lament - 3.75stx
Thrundacrack - 2.75stx
Toxoplasmosis - 13stx
Weathered - 10stx
Grandmother - 7stx
Idol - 30stx (I was also surprised by the amount that this item beat out the others)
Ignis - 10stx
Moontower - 4.25stx
Nullification - 3stx
Sunstar - 3.5stx
Alkatraz - 6.5stx
Hadal - 3stx
Slayer - 0.75stx
Boreal - 2stx
Freedom - 7stx
Guardian - 9.25stx
Olympic - 4.25stx
Galleon - 0.75stx
Hero - 9stx
Resurgence - 3stx
Crusade Sabatons - 6.75stx
Discoverer - 9stx
Apocalypse - 0.75stx
Aftershock - 6.25stx
Az - 1.25stx
Archangel - 2stx
Pure - 4stx

Calculating the average of all of these, one ends up with approximately 5.65 stacks per Mythic. That leaves us with 22.6 stacks per run, give or take. Subtracting the 2 stacks that these runs required, that ends up with ~20.6 stacks per run. Dividing this by the 93 hours that this took, one obtains approximately 14 stacks per hour running the Forgery, assuming 7 minutes per run and no mistakes whatsoever.
I'm unsure as to how this stacks up against other money-making methods.

 

This isn't a necropost, is it?
Hopefully it's not, because this thread needs a bump.

 

I guess running for mythics is an integral way to make people play the game near the end. Video games have been putting gambler's fallacy into the equation for a while now, like those gacha games

 

"Everyone else has this poor design, therefore we must have it too" is a highly flawed argument - just because other games have "gambler's fallacy" into them doesn't mean that Wynn has to, or even should.

 

Hello En1gmatic, thank you very much for replying to me first up. I believe there seems to be a misunderstanding here, and would like to clear this up.

My previous message wasn't meant to be an argument ngl. My intention wasn't to evoke any strong feelings from anyone either. It was more so to enlighten others to the psychology behind the games that have been out there for a long while. I'm very sorry if I caused any misinterpretations here.

I never stated the words "poor design" and "we must have it too" :/ Although that was your interpretation and opinion of my words, this is definitely not my interpretation, nor what I wanted to convey. It seems my wording wasn't the best to convey my thoughts to you. I must apologise to you for this.

My 1st statement was merely to comment on what I personally see - running for mythics is an integral way to make people play the game near the end - which applies only to a group of people interested in it. I am very aware that this doesn't apply to everyone out there, and understand many people have many other reasons to continue playing in the end-game.

As for the 2nd statement, "Video games have been putting gambler's fallacy into the equation for a while now, like those gacha games", it was not my intention to either support or go against the idea of this concept being applied into games. This statement was merely to state how this phenomenon occurs in many games. There is no word there which explicitly states that I support it or not. It was neither my intention to infer supporting this idea. My intention was to state the facts out there. As such, I would like to apologise for my wording here, due to how it could've been interpreted to relate my 1st sentence.

Reflecting on how I could've expressed my intentions better, I believe I should've typed in the following words at the beginning of my message:
"It is neither my intention to support or voice my disapproval for this topic. My second sentence is independent from my first statement."

Once again, I deeply apologise for any misinterpretations there due to my wording. I guess the emoji didn't work there to try lighten up the mood unfortunately. I generally try to put in emojis to make what I say more enjoyable. I still have a lot to work on myself.

Thank you for reading both my responses. I really appreciate the time you've dedicated to this post, and wish you the best of luck!