Game Design Reviewing 2.0 Archer - Messy Design

At first I wasn't interesting in writing this thread but now that the Hero Beta section of the forums (and subsequently the Discord) have been hidden (why, Salted?) I figured it may be worthwhile now. Archer is not my main nor my favorite class but it is among my most played, and I feel like among all the changed classes in 2.0 that I enjoy playing the most, Archer is probably the most interesting (and frustrating) to talk about design wise, be it the changes/additions to the base spells, inherent synergy of archetypes within the ability tree, and the combination alongside intelligence/mana changes. While I can't necessarily provide direct solutions to many of the issues I feel are present, I can at least distinguish what I think went wrong with the class. I also kind of want to address issues regarding 2.0 that aren't entirely limited to Archer but I don't feel are worth creating separate threads over. That's not to say I feel there is absolutely 0 merit to Archer in 2.0, but my own personal enjoyment of the class has significantly lowered this update.


What made Archer so fun/powerful in 1.0?

In order to contrast the differences and potential issues in 2.0 Archer, it's important to see the state of the class in 1.0. I cannot necessarily give reasons as to why each and every individual player may have enjoyed the class prior to the 2.0 update, but I can give my own personal reasons and why the class has been considered overwhelmingly meta for the past updates. Archer has always been a "generalist" meaning it could consistently deal with nearly every situation. I've always considered it a pretty fun "run and gun" class that dealt too much damage for having the advantage of range, natural speed, and knockback. Its main disadvantage was a lack of natural base defense, which was however easily made up for in the previously aforementioned attributes.

Nearly all of 1.0 Archer's spells sans Escape had the ability to do massive knockback, with Arrow Storm and Arrow Shield being the primary offenders. Arrow Storm's volley of arrows made it incredibly easy to push away mobs without CCI, and Arrow Shield offered defense against melee mobs that get too close (and for some reason was also a competent DPS spell through arrow rain). Escape as a spell offered a natural speed 3 bonus, allowing the class to consistently strafe enemy projectiles and spells without large walk speed investment. Not to mention that the spell was just great for mobility, being the perfect disengage. Many of these attributes were actually thankfully nerfed in 2.0, but it's important to note Archer's original role as almost the standard "shooter", being easy to pick up and allowed you to confidently deal consistent damage and dodge. These reasons are personally why it was among my most played class.


Base spell changes in 2.0

Now that we understand what made Archer so strong in 1.0 and the class that everyone knows it as, we can look at what changes are messy in design and frustrating to deal with.

Arrow Storm - The quintessential Archer spell. How was it changed? The introduction of recoil and changes to Arrow Storm make it really annoying to use and arguably incredibly counterproductive to the core identity of the class. Spread is what I consider to be the lesser of the two evils. It completely changes the way Arrow Storm shoots entirely, shifting away from the original straight beam designs in favor of messily flinging them everywhere. In practice nerfs the effective range of the class as landing most of your arrows becomes more difficult now, and while it is more annoying to use now, I am not inherently against forcing the class to get closer to deal maximum DPS when in Wynncraft you can cheese a lot of content through range advantage. It also is likely necessary in order for the secondary mechanic to function: recoil. By far the most complained about new mechanic for Archer I've seen regarding 2.0, myself included. As stated earlier, Archer was so strong because of its ability to get up close and strafe enemies. Recoil, however, nearly entirely negates this aspect of the class as every arrow shot now pushes you away ever so slightly and at lower walk speeds can prevent you from strafing entirely. Why? Not only is this frustrating to use, but I find it really baffling whenever it's brought up that this is a good mobility addition for the class. It has sparing usage to allow midair suspension, but can still leave you vulnerable to ranged attacks. It isn't fundamentally more mobility, as it can entirely ruin the class' ability to strafe enemies and particularly goes poorly with the archetype designed around doing so, Boltslinger. The existence of the Elusive ability also tells me that Salted acknowledges the mechanic can be seen as a negative, as it is very far down in the Boltslinger tree and isn't even full negation of recoil. While I'm not arguing for the mechanic's full removal, as I can acknowledge it has sparing mobility use while travelling the map and a select few people can find that midair suspension fun, I don't think it should be on the base spell by default and should instead be shifted to an optional ability.

Bomb Arrow - Bomb Arrow had incredibly similar changes to Arrow Storm, with the introduction of self damage and knockback (notice a theme here?). Self damage similar to the change to Arrow Storm spread is what I consider to be the lesser of two evils, as it isn't that particularly impactful on gameplay. The self damage is mostly negligible, but from a design aspect it makes little sense. No other base spell has such an actual downside to using it other than how they fundamentally work, and with the change to make Bomb Arrow the first unlocked Archer spell, it can potentially make new players think twice about the class. I believe these base spells shouldn't have such downsides unless explicitly taking certain abilities. Self knockback similar to recoil is what I consider to be the larger issue. Wynncraft as a game, be it in dungeons, raids, quests, and exploring the map, has more close range encounters than mid and long range. Bomb Arrow is your primary source of AOE damage, and especially with the various Trapper upgrades, it's highly likely you're gonna be constantly and unintentionally knocking yourself around. There's actually a Trapper ability called Rocket Jump that increases the knockback of Bomb Arrow, and since there are similarly sparing mobility uses of it, the mechanic should just entirely be tied to this ability. Self damage can be removed entirely.

Escape/Arrow Shield - There isn't much to say regarding the changes to these two spells, as there barely were any if you discount additional abilities, although I felt I should mention them anyways. Escape has probably the only positive changes I can say about the 2.0 base spells. Escape prior to 2.0 had a pretty absurd amount of height you can use to scale/disengage, and was pretty rightfully nerfed (nerfing movement spell height seems to oddly be a common theme of 2.0). The spell also feels much more fluid to use. Arrow Shield works effectively exactly the same, with a very fundamental change in regards to arrow rain which is now an optional independent ability, which I'd like to talk about in Boltslinger later.


Fundamental problems with Archer ability tree synergy

Of the 3 main classes that I've played somewhat heavily in 2.0 (Warrior, Shaman, and Archer, I have yet to thoroughly play Mage and Assassin), Archer's ability tree is by far the worst. I dare say it is the worst example of anti-synergy across all 5 classes, although people contest with me that the title belongs to Assassin, but I don't have enough experience with it to tell. While I do enjoy the concepts behind each of the archetypes and they can individually be mildly enjoyable to play, any form of synergy between archetypes is fundamentally flawed and the placements of certain abilities within the tree doesn't really make sense. You can immediately see this with Sharpshooter being in the exact middle of the tree, right next to Boltslinger. While not every archetype needs to exactly play perfectly with each other, it becomes problematic when they begin to limit how one can build.

Boltslinger and Sharpshooter are two entirely opposite playstyles, with Boltslinger being all about spamming arrows and mobility, whereas Sharpshooter is slower, focused on precise hits. Many of their abilities directly lock each other out, with Phantom Ray being one of the first abilities in Sharpshooter and immediately locking out any Arrow Storm upgrades which are heavily scattered throughout Boltslinger. Trapper actually has some synergy with Sharpshooter, with Focus pairing well nicely with Call of the Hound, Bryophyte Roots, and Decimator being easily accessible and Phantom Ray being desirable. However, that synergy ends there, as the two archetypes also fundamentally mess with each other, as Trapper is all about at times intentionally missing to set up traps and specific abilities such as Implosion/Bouncing Bomb/Grape Bomb all also messing with Focus. Trapper and Boltslinger are the only two that don't fundamentally counter each other, and as such Trapper should be in the middle of the tree. I'd like to talk more about these specific ability placements when analyzing each archetype individually, but I wanted to give a more general analysis first.


General mana woes and how it affects Archer

This is one of those more general 2.0 issues that I mentioned earlier that I wanted to talk about that I didn't feel I could write enough about for an individual thread in their entirety. I think my biggest problem with 2.0 mana is that it's trying to be two different things at once, which really affects my overall enjoyment of class building. 2.0 changed how mana and Intelligence work entirely. Mana regen/steal is now constant, and mana is base 100 and increased by Intelligence. Spells are overall proportionally costlier, and lowering those costs has become more difficult unless you really go out of your way to build for it or play an archetype specifically designed for it. This is obviously to directly nerf spell spam, which was the primary way of playing spell prior to 2.0 (and arguably still is). This has a couple issues, with the first main being how it affects the community and how gameplay has been shaped for years around previous systems and balancing.

Spell spam being the main spell gameplay of 1.0 for years meant players have a natural fondness for it, of which I am one of those people. I liked spell spam, and I felt it had a relatively high skill ceiling to actually play optimally. Wanting to shift gameplay to slower paced casting is not inherently a bad thing and has its merits, as many players felt it was too stressful on the hands and annoying. Spells also being spammed so easily and having such strong effects lead to the creation of CCI. Spells such as Arrow Storm, Spin Attack and Aura having such powerful knockback/debuffing and spammability meant game balance was impossible without a mechanic to lessen those effects, but having slower paced spell casting would make each individual cast more meaningful and have less of a need for such a mechanic. However, it seems as if developers heard the outcries over the removal of spellspam, and as such wanted to try and keep it around with the new system, but ends up failing to do either well. Intelligence's nerf was partially reverted, but being able to consistently spell spam, especially with Archer, is still incredibly difficult without massive cost-reduction item investment and ends up limiting build diversity. Slower paced spell casting also isn't entirely represented by the new archetypes, with only a few exceptions that are specifically designed for it (Sharpshooter to an extent and Acolyte) and the few archetypes that are specifically designed for spell spam (Arcanist, Ritualist, Acrobat, Battle Monk/Trapper to much lesser extents). And for years, spell gameplay has been nearly entirely designed around usage with Intelligence, and entirely changing the skill and mana makes it feel like many items are in weird and awkward positions for balancing.

Acolyte is probably the perfect example of slower paced spellcasting done right. Your optimal spellcasting rate is directly tied to your amount of blood pool, and using that blood optimally is also tied to specific abilities and how they function. Building up blood pool is time gated, so you can only boost your aura damage/healing so often, and even with later abilities that increase this rate (multi-totem and Blood Rite), it's still optimal to not want to spell spam as waiting for auras to Rebound for additional damage/healing is the best way to not run out of blood pool immediately. How is this relevant to Archer? Well, nothing in Archer particularly does spell spam or slower paced casting very well and we can look to it as an example. Boltslinger is arguably the most mana-intensive archetype in game, as Arrow Storm casts incredibly quickly, but reducing those costs is nigh impossible without entire spell spam investment. Cheaper Arrow Storm 2 is located in Trapper, which Boltslinger cannot take easily. Cheaper Arrow Bomb 2 is at the literal bottom of the tree behind two weak final red tier abilities, with Boltslinger being unable to access it at ALL due to More Focus 2.


Looking at each archetype and notable abilities

Here, I'd like to look at each archetype, how they play, and notable abilities that I feel are worth mentioning. If I don't mention the ability, then I think they're in a good spot.

Boltslinger - Most classes in 2.0 got one archetype that are incredibly similar to their original 1.0 counterparts, with Warrior having Battle Monk, Mage having arguably Riftwalker, Assassin having Shadestepper, Shaman having Ritualist, and Archer having Boltslinger being probably the closest. It's designed around high damage and mobility, the same exact two attributes I mentioned earlier that made 1.0 Archer so strong/fun. Overall, it has relatively clear design, but also as mentioned earlier, I feel the biggest offender is Arrow Storm's natural recoil. Again, it messes with the notion of the class/archetype strafing around enemies, although there are two notable abilities that help alleviate recoil. Speaking of which, I'll start looking at abilities in more depth:

Frenzy - Easily one of the strongest abilities of the archetype, which is weird considering how high up the tree it is and needing little investment. It's one of those abilities I mentioned that helps alleviate recoil, as the absolutely crazy walk speed it provides means you can strafe much easier. Although, this mechanic should not be default in the first place, and the ability is in blatant need of a nerf as it could be halved and still be effectively free 80% walk speed, which is just absurd mobility as such a low investment ability. 60% max is what I'd consider to be pretty fair.

Nimble String - I have no issue with how this ability actually works, but moreso its placement within the ability tree. You know how Boltslinger and Sharpshooter have such anti-synergy? This is one of those examples. In order to reach Frenzy and Focus, you need to take both Double Shots and Triple Shots which mess with Focus. It's arguable that Sharpshooter as a whole should not have easy access to Frenzy, but I say that Frenzy shouldn't be as strong as it is in the first place.

Fierce/Geyser Stomp - One thing someone will immediately notice when building Boltslinger, is how AP intensive it is. Geyser Stomp is required to reach All-Seeing Panoptes, despite Fierce Stomp originally being completely optional. Again, I have nothing wrong with how these two abilities are balanced/designed, but their position in the tree. In order to make the Boltslinger tree less AP intensive, Geyser Stomp should be switched with Elusive.

Elusive - Speaking of Elusive, it is being forced to solve an issue that shouldn't exist in the first place, and doesn't even do it well. Considering the archetype is designed around being close to enemies, it is highly likely you will at least occasionally take stray damage that can ruin it entirely. However, I argue it should be an entirely different ability. In this scenario, recoil would be removed from the base spell, and Elusive would be changed to something entirely different that adds it back for those who still want to use it, and in this case, Geyser Stomp shouldn't be switched with it (some other filler could take its place). If this for some reason is too large of an ask (why), at least make it remove the mechanic in its entirety. It being so restrictive also tells me that the developers actually recognize recoil as being a potential downside.

Escape Artist/Arrow Rain - Originally, I was excited to see the new changes to these abilities, and thought it was a really good idea. For those unaware, in one of the last patches of the Hero Beta, they were changed to only be able to land one arrow on any given enemy, but raising the damage of each individual arrow. This was to make it so they're more useful for groups of enemies (which is really niche) rather than being able to stack damage on large bosses. While it's good in theory, the damage increase is still absolutely abysmal without any further buffs and personally, it makes these abilities feel way less impactful to use. Either it needs a massive damage buff to compensate for the change, or continue to try and find a balance between the damage they do and keeping arrows hitting the same enemy, although I recognize that it isn't easy.

Boltslinger to me seems the most overall well designed Archer archetype, and it's only the addition of Arrow Storm recoil (did I mention how much I hate it?) and the changes to mana that keep me from fully enjoying it.


Sharpshooter - Sharpshooter to me feels like arguably the most rushed archetype in the entire game. The main issues I have with it are the pure lack of options it seems to have of which I don't really have my own solution for (I'm unoriginal), how messily Focus works with the other two archetypes, and a fundamental issue regarding all nearly all archetype primary mechanic damage abilities. Sharpshooter also feels like it doesn't really belong in a game like Wynncraft, as most content isn't really designed with such range in mind, and that range can just potentially end up cheesing the entire game anyways.

Focus - The ability that defines the entire archetype, and will lead into the next big general thing that I want to talk about. With so many abilities and unique interactions that have to be taken into account and being essential to the viability of its archetype, it's no surprise that it's really messy and I don't blame developers at all. Focus is lost by but not limited to the following abilities: Arrow Rain, Grappling Hook, Bouncing Bomb, and Grape Bomb. You'll notice that most of these notable abilities are from Trapper, and that they're pretty crucial to Trapper's identity. If Focus could somehow not have negative interactions with these abilities, specifically not losing itself after a bouncing/grape bomb, then the synergy between those two archetypes would finally be worthwhile. However, the question becomes, is it too powerful? I think this is really interesting because I find that this applies to not just Archer, but nearly every single class currently in 2.0.


Core identity archetype abilities are too strong when you get them

This is the second of the general 2.0 issues I have that I didn't feel was worth making into its own thread, although I think this is arguably the bigger issue for game balancing. This isn't limited to solely Sharpshooter's Focus, but arguably also Fallen's Enraged Blow, Riftwalker's Windsweeper/Breathless, and especially Shaman's Mask of the Lunatic and Sacrificial Shrine. These abilities, while crucial for their specific archetypes and usually fine whilst in a vacuum, have an uncanny powerful synergy when used in conjunction with other archetypes for almost nearly free damage that disrupts the balancing of those archetypes. I think the biggest offenders here are Focus, Mask of the Lunatic and Sacrificial Shrine. These abilities are crucial to the identities of these archetypes, however they start at nearly full power when you get them.

Focus, for example, is almost nearly as strong as it possibly can be right off from the start at when you can get it. It isn't entirely, but the very first More Focus upgrade is exactly right beneath it, with the other being at the literal bottom of the Archer tree. Why is this an issue, exactly? I know, I know, I said Focus should have better synergy with Trapper mechanically. And I still stand by that. However, even with that skewed synergy it currently has, you can pretty much immediately get 5 Focus easily in the Trapper tree (and even Decimator which is absurdly powerful). While maintaining it is hard, for however long you can maintain it, the damage boost is massive and makes Trapper way stronger than it is by itself and as such, arguably dependent on it. Mage is very similar in this regard with Breathless and Arcanist as a whole. Arcanist by itself deals very little damage for the investment put in compared to that of Riftwalker, but, when putting in the small AP investment of taking Windsweeper + Breathless, that damage absolutely skyrockets. Again, it sounds like I'm being anti-synergy here. While I want these ability combinations to be powerful, I also believe primarily investing in one archetype to be nearly or equally as powerful. And currently, it feels like pure Arcanist damage is so weak just because that potential synergy exists, and so it's heavily reliant on it. Shaman is the worst offender, with Mask of the Lunatic being 50% multiplicative additional damage at the beginning of Ritualist, and Sacrificial Shrine ALSO being 50% multiplicative aura damage at the beginning of its tree. I want to save my thoughts on Shaman in specific for its own thread, but the concept and issue remains the same.

Ironically enough, the class that seems to handle this problem perfectly is actually Assassin. Marked is perhaps its trademark DPS increase moreso than Surprise Strike, as it's nearly constant once applied. However, it's the second red tier ability instead of the first, and not immediately or nearly as strong as it possibly can be. More Marked and Better Marked are at the bottom of the tree, meaning it doesn't have the same massive synergy as it does compared to other classes. This is good because the synergy still exists, but to actually make the most use out of it you have to heavily invest in that archetype. Back to Sharpshooter.


Fire Creep - Again, this isn't me taking issue with how the ability mechanically works or its balance. While not technically a Sharpshooter ability, its upgrade Scorched Earth is and works well with it. My main problem with it is the enormous amount of particles it produces. I feel like this shouldn't be explained at all, as just one Archer can make FPS miserable for everyone stuck around them like in raid parties. Holy fuck.

Crepuscular Ray - I don't actually hate this ability works mechanically, but my primary woe with it is how it's activated. Currently, any Phantom Ray casted at all will cause it to activate, which effectively entirely limits 5+ Phantom Rays from being used at all as More Focus 2 is tied behind Crepuscular Ray, which would actually be higher damage. Tying it to shift + Phantom Ray would solve this issue, with one problem being that Twain's Arc also being tied to shift, although I don't think this is a notable issue. While it does offer genuine mobility utility, I find it odd that the final red tier ability of the archetype is inferior damage to essentially the very first ability and even resets focus.

Overall, Sharpshooter feels like it lacks depth and Focus being so messy to design/balance around. I wish I could offer more abilities as solutions, but I lack originality and frankly have been writing this thread for so long at this point I just want to get it done.


Trapper - The archetype I have the least experience with by itself, and the one I have the least to say on. Looking at Trapper is "meant" to be played, it seems to be a weird DPS/crowd control hybrid, while not doing either particularly well without synergy with Sharpshooter. Abilities such as Implosion, Call of the Hound, Grappling Hook and Tangled Traps immediately tell you that you're supposed to setup traps and use such crowd control abilities to send mobs to each individual trap. However, why go out of your way to setup individual traps and waste time sending mobs to each of them when you can go for direct hits and deal significantly more damage? To be honest, gauging these numbers must be hard because you have to account for how often the player will be setting up these traps, how often they'll actually end up hitting mobs, and how it works with Sharpshooter. This "crowd control" identity also just, doesn't work at all against any every mob with any form of knockback CCI. And as mentioned earlier, moving it to the middle of the tree would be ideal so it can work better with Boltslinger.

Minefield - The only ability I'll bring up for Trapper, as I lack experience with the archetype/find it to be mostly fine (?) and think this is one of the only actively detrimental abilities in its tree. Reducing trap damage by 80% is a LOT. The idea is that should help with Mana Traps/Tangled Traps synergy and more traps on average will be affected by Patient Trapper, except most of these barely end up being better at all damage wise in the long run, with only Mana Traps synergy being the most worthwhile. I feel like this damage reduction could be removed entirely, as it would also greatly incentivize heavily investing into Trapper in the first place.


Closing statements

Whew. By far the longest thread/message I've ever written on this website. I said this in my old TNA/CCI threads on the Hero Beta forums (which are hidden now, WHY Salted), but I understand there's some problem with my writing. I tend to make long paragraphs and even run on sentences and even some incorrect grammar I gloss over, so I apologize to anyone who might actually try to read this and notices any issues. If you do, I'll gladly fix them. I hope these thoughts reach whoever is in charge of ability tree balancing and design, as while I wish I could give solutions for many of these issues I feel are present, I can't think of them sometimes. I don't think that makes some of this criticism any less valid though. This message also seems to be overwhelmingly negative, but I hope it really doesn't come off this way. While I am critical of 2.0 and Archer, it's because I love this server and want to do my best to help it improve, and I respect those in charge or work with the staff team.

 

incredibly good thread (i will read it later)

 

i lov archer

 

that won't be me
cool thread tho

 

luv trapp, er

 

I spent half an hour reading this...Great thread!

 

too long didn't read but I disagree anyways

 

read all of it, agree with most points especially how its so bad at synergy pls fix.

 

Thank you for never adding anything of value

 

based opinion (please nerf focus)

 

Wow great thread nipp nopp

 

finally got around to ready this and i entirely agree especially about the focus being counterintuitive with literally everything except for speccing into only sharpshooter

not sure how balanced it would be but it would definitely be cool and feel better to play if you didn't lose focus as long as one of your damage sources hit (would be fine if it didn't even stack focus unless you hit everything, but not resetting focus every other spell/triple shot would be amazing)

 

Thanks for the read and the reply. I may have forgotten to include this but I also agree with landing at least one damaging source to maintain focus. Obviously this comes with the caveat of making sure focus doesn't become too strong and effectively required (which I doubt it would since trapper still incentivizes occasionally missing to set up traps), but again, focus just shouldn't be as strong as it is when available. I saw the recent hotfix notes which said they wanted to shift the power of focus to other sharpshooter abilities and while I love that they listened to feedback and is good in nature, it didn't really actually do much. Overall focus received a relatively minor nerf (210% max with 7/7 to now 175% max) with just slight buffs to its other abilities. This also doesn't change that the first of just two focus upgrades is immediately available after the initial ability, and that taking it is even better now since it doesn't reduce your damage per focus stack. I think a more drastic change to the sharpshooter tree is needed overall, with various upgrades to focus scattered in the latter half of the tree. Ironically, this is the exact same problem that summoner and ritualist face. Ritualist's main mechanic, masks (shaman's parallel to focus), ruins synergy (masks disabling uproot entirely akin to trapper upgrades allowing you to easily lose focus) and completely locks out another archetype's best abilities (bullwhip and crimson effigy). This synergy shouldn't inherently be disallowed, but to prevent it from being too strong, mask of the lunatic should also not be as strong as it is when available as the first red tier for ritualist.

 

Feel like bumping this

 

I feel like the 2.0 Archetypes generally weren't designed with enough depth, player freedom, or hybrids in mind. The depth and viability of early-game Assassin and Shaman suffered a LOT because of their Archetypes being expensive and anti-hybrid in general.

I also think that one of the biggest reasons is that we're getting Ability Trees, as opposed to a keep-it-simple-smarty page where you can buy upgrades, is because Wynncraft's built-up the reputation that it's an MMORPG, as opposed to being an RPG. For some reason, the biggest MMORPGs seem to follow a restrictive design trend of "this Class gets that playstyle, and that playstyle only" while RPGs are far more likely to let you freely make builds based on whatever gear you pick up.