Don't Change Items To Try And Fix Damage. They Aren't The Problem.

So y'all probably know what this is about, but if you don't here's the basic rundown. Wynn changed how damage from dex and str is calculated which has lead to stupidly high damage increases. Now people have been calling for items to be changed to solve this, however, this is not the solution as it is not the problem, let me explain why here.

I've looked at all my builds before and after, taking note of ones that use both str and dex and ones that only use one stat.
Doing this I found that the lowest increase of damage from a single stat build was about 10% (in the build it was 11,000-12,000) and the highest increase was a fatal build with 135 dex (will be important) (damage went from 20,000-27,000).
Now with dual stat builds the lowest I found was about a 30% increase (17,000-22,000), however, this seems to be an outlier as the second lowest was a 50% increase on a Hero build (16,000-23,000) with only 20 str and 45 dex! Comparing that to the fatal build with only dex, that's 70 fewer skill points for 15% more damage! The highest I found was a 100% damage increase (12,000-24,000) on a no mythic heavy melee build, this also appeared on another person's heavy melee that had a 100% increase in damage (7,000-14,000). Most other builds that used str and dex appear to have had a damage increase closer to the 100% but not quite there (Some examples being 14,000-22,000 and 17,000-30,000) whereas builds that just used one stat were all under 30% with the second highest being a cluster build that got right below a 30% increase (13,000-17,000).

In short items are not the problem, the combination of str and dex is and, to give my idea of how to fix it, I'd say make it so if you have both str and dex the stats are less effective (i.e. if you have a 60% damage increase from str and a 60% crit chance from dex those both get reduced to say 40% each because you have both stats).

 

A point I made on the other thread that reworking a bunch of items will cause more community backlash that what has already been caused by whatever the fuck happened here.

 

To be frank, I dislike your salutation as well, but I also agree that it isn't really the items that need to be changed.
One issue I have with it, decreases the damage of items decreases it for everything, including builds not using strength and dex.

 

As a builder I can tell you that there will be massive outrage if there are sweeping item changes unless they are done almost perfectly, and even then it won't solve the problem.

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Exactly. changing the items won't solve the issue, it'll just make a lot of builds unusable, make average damage way lower, and make a lot of people really angry. Also, I'm fine if you don't think my idea for a fix works, it could very well not or there could very well be a far better one.

 

the thing is, this is how earth and thunder should have worked from the start of the 5 element system
the current item pool is adjusted to work with the less-effective versions of earth and thunder, which is why fixing them to be worth something actually broke them, for the time being. from what ive gathered, the item team is also strongly for this change, but even they were told literally 4 days before hand (which is not quite enough time to readjust some hundreds-thousands of items)

about the numbers you posted, a 2x multiplier to your damage by maxing strength and dexterity might sound crazy at first glance, but mind that max def + agi is essentially a 5x multiplier to your survivability. as this change was to make strength and dexterity even compete with defensive skill points, i'd say it just about managed that (ignoring the currently overtuned item pool)

 

Okay, it wasn't max dex and str. it was 115 str and 40 dex, or about 20 sp higher than the sighted fatal build. 20 sp for a three times increase to damage. With the other builds I have few even got to 100 in one of the stats but all still had their damage increased more than the fatal build, and in fact, it was not even close.

 

I am actually strongly against preventing strength and dexterity from applying at the same time, because there is a major confliction flaw with it. First of all, defense and agility have been doing it since forever, and it has been proved to be pretty op, but manageable with the trade offs. The second problem is that this solution does not treat strength and dexterity equally. In this scenario, if you have a set amount of earth and thunder points, if you add to thunder, earth will lose effectiveness, up to an 80% reduction at 150 dexterity. This is not true the other way around. Dexterity will not be effected at all if you increase your earth skill points, resulting in a major balancing problem that will result in yet another imbalance, and this is a problem especially if imbalance is the thing that you are trying to fix.

HOWEVER, I think that your suggestion is a step in the right direction, as you suggested to reduce the effectiveness, and not abolish it alltogether. I beleive that this is a step in the right direction for this suggestion, but I don't think that it would be the best way to approach it overall.

 

I can see where you're coming from, however I still think that the damage increase is a bit too high to be balanced. How much balancing it needs is up for debate though. Also yeah, making one of the stats useless is just a dumb idea and I don't get why people would suggest it. It removes the entire point of using both stats unless you're just using them for a few items.

 

It's actually like a 25x multiplier IIRC; taking a fifth of the damage of a hit while also taking a fifth of hits

 

So the way I see it, the only builds that have really high damage are ones that use both dexterity and strength, normally I'd think that these changes are insane, however this is only applicable to rainbow builds that are usually glassy (rainbow sanct moment), ETW builds that are extremely glassy and melee builds which is already the worst play style in the game and with the massive power creep of the update and with Orphion coming out soon, I think all that needs to happen is that insane damage bug needs to be fixed.

 

I can diffidently see the point you're making and will agree that damage builds needed a buff. The buff here I think though was too much. If the damage for builds that used both stats was scaled down a bit from getting an increase of between 2 and 4 times that of single stat builds, then it would be perfectly fine I think.