Life And Manasteal Rework

I don't really see how is this better. You would propably use hashmap either way. I just didn't detail for the cooldown

 

i dont use lifesteal

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wtf

 

why are you associating atlas inc with an obsession with slower attack speeds

They're objectively optimal in the current state of the game for steal-based spell, and atlas happens to be an insanely busted item that enables that. Would be great if you listed examples of bias instead of being the resident finger pointer, especially given how diverse atlas inc is a group- anyone half decent at classbuilding is probably associated with atlas inc in some way.

also half our members are obsessed with fast hybrid so there's that lol

 

What? I am associating Atlas Inc. With the item "Atlas"

 

Yeah I get the joke but it's getting a bit old and misleading
(the second half was directed at jaydon, don't worry)

 

I will be honest, I will propably never stop.

For real, am associating you with the knowledge of combat im Wynn.

 

Yeah I like this

 

Sorry, I meant "to" not "of"

Edit: I went back to the original comment and it says "to". Even your quote does. So idk what you are talking about

 

even thousands of eledefs on a boss can wall

 

mb misread lmao, sorry

 

Saying that bc it would make Atlas a lot worse as an item, since there's now no benefit to slower attack speeds

 

ok im just gonna vouch that as an atlas inc member i dislike atlas as an item and wouldn't mind if it no longer had a near-monopoly over spellsteal viability. i agree with jaydon's view of attack speeds here.

 

Traitor! (jk)

 

I actually think that's the issue.
It's a bunch of people that have relatively similar views on class building, maybe not as a whole I mean, the group obviously has diverse thoughts, but it's when you accumulate everyone's opinions together.
I'm also going to say something a bit risky, no, not "anyone half decent at class building is probably associated with atlas inc in some way." I think there are people who are plenty good at class building but dislike interacting in the class building section on the forums because it turns into a somewhat toxic argument every time someone stats something that's largely disagreed with, even if they have a point. It's more or less why I think people have similar views in Atlas, it's a group of people mainly formed out of the class building section on discord, it becomes hard to argue against something simply because of the mob of people.

I think one good example of bias is your group's distaste for tank builds. You often ignore things tank builds can do better than higher damage builds, like they are less risk-averse, often meaning they can be better for someone of lower skill or a worse pc, or how they are basically the only playstyle that allows warrior's to be viable, which inherently gives them value on that class at least.
Even further than that, almost all of you, due to tending to share the idea that tank builds are bad, end up also agreeing that tank builds need as much support as possible. The number of times I've attempted to discuss whether or not something about tanks should be nerfed, generally the conversation goes to "Well, tanks are bad/hardly used among us, so it needs it anyways"

I need to go, I will come back to typing more about this later.
P.s. I do think tank builds need more support, but I don't think they tend to need to be strong.
More support doesn't equal simply buffing them.

 

Fact is that they are propably the best community source of knowledge of Wynn combat

 

can't recall many such instances

again vouching that i'm firstly irrelevant to the class building section on discord and secondly of differing views from other members in atlas inc

both ren and i support defensive building

they do, but not because they're underpowered or underused. i don't know if this is just me or if defensive archetypes are becoming increasingly saturated with offensive items: starglass, seagazer, adrenaline, spiritdancer etc.

i'm pretty sure defensive builds aren't as valued among the majority of atlas inc bc they don't reward better skill/conditions, but it's not like they're intrinsically bad.

i'm sorry for attacking this point but i don't feel comfortable being lumped into a stereotype that seems almost contrary to my views in class building, especially when i know that there are others in a similar boat.

 

~~ct~~

i obviously can't speak for the larger group, but i think i might have a little credibility here, as i am, in some way, associated with atlas inc.

the people i argue with most in discussions about class building related things are mainly people who are completely clueless but pretend like they know what they are talking about (people that aren't "half decent at class building") or people within atlas inc or otherwise associated with it.

as to the class buildings on forums is toxic point, i actually generally disagree on that point. sure, atlas inc tends to point out when things are unoptimal, because people rarely specify that what they made was intended to be a joke, and the general majority of the playerbase generally wants "best build" funny haha.

i would say it is perfectly honest to say that sometimes atlas inc members come off as toxic because of the fact that probably 90% of us only class build when they have no sleep and no social skills.

i'm not sure if you just haven't spent a lot of time in the class building channel, or if it has massively changed since i left, but i remember a TON of arguments between atlas people on builds there. like, if someone says unironically to use a downright repulsive item (use magma chalice instead of peaceful rest!!) then i would imagine that any competent class builder would call them out on it, but a lot of the time, people in atlas disagree over a lot of choices (excluding cases where there is pretty much zero reason to not use something in a situation, which is why i think atlas needs to be nerfed or more options added)

i can't speak for everyone, again, but i would like to dispute this based on my experiences. Qz responded here while i was typing this, and i don't know exactly what he said but i'm assuming that he mentioned that @RenZenthio and himself both really enjoy tank builds. I know very few people related to atlas who outright dislike tank builds, but i guess you could argue iboju or highbread don't like them, even though i personally feel like they just don't like them as much as glassier options.

i think this is less of a groupthink type of situation and more of a "wynn's design philosophy specifically discourages tanks from existing"

things like the drop system, dps checks like wretches, and a bunch of other things are just. worse for low-damage tanks than other builds. indisputably.

nice editorializing. i can say with certainty that the reason most atlas players argue this way about tanks is due to the state of tanks within wynncraft and NOT AT ALL from "hardly used among us."

please. i'm fine with a valid argument of this sort, but that's just a straight untruth.




also, i'm sorry if the multiple responses from atlas people to you seems like herd behaviour. i would personally argue that it shows the opposite, as i'm assuming any point we are arguing that is not a factual error has differences between our responses.

 

Community, not ct

 

Honestly I'm kind of split down the middle on this, I will say that I am leaning towards what the system already is but that might be because I'm used to it. Though I don't really like option 2 because it just makes it feel a bit more inconsistent with everything else.

From just a fast hybrid point of view, I'm very split, having it be a guaranteed proc kind of takes out that rng of if you are going to get mana or not, and depending on who you talk to it's either a positive or negative. I personally think it's a positive, it's more fun to sometimes get a fuckton of mana in a few hits, but I can defo see why people would hate that rng. It's very annoying to run out of mana mid-battle and not have any readily available source, like in the first phase eye fight, when minions don't really spawn that much. One thing I am worried about is that by taking out that rng and making it so you have to always melee for four seconds instead of being able to cycle melee and spells in together like using shaman fast hybrid or mage fast hybrid, I'm not sure how you would fix this but it is a problem nonetheless.

I can see why people would want it to be fixed though, one of the reasons fast hybrid isn't as optimal as something like heavy hybrid on something like assassin is because on assassin or classes like it spells are instant damage, so you would want as much of that instant damage as possible and heavy hybrid does allow for that. Having it be fixed would make heavy hybrid and fast hybrid equal in viability for steals, so both playstyles are more competitive and instead of fast hybrid being objectively suboptimal it's more dependent on the flow you prefer in combat.

It might be cool if there's other solutions, one that kind of interests me is having the chances of getting mana go up when you melee and it doesn't proc mana, though it's probably too complex and I'm probably missing some important reason that would make this gamebreaking or something. Maybe have the change in proc chance go up depending on attack speed I don't know.

Dunno how this got to some flamewar about atlas inc groupthink or whatever but yeah can we keep it on topic instead of attacking eachother for what they think of tanks or whatever