World [35+ Supporters] Soul Points+: A Desperately Needed Soul Point Rework.

A suggestion that solves the majority of problems in the current state of Wynncraft.
Don't believe me? Just read on!​

Why Soul Points are a problem:

So now that the tutorial is fixed, one of the biggest issues plaguing new players is Soul Points. More importantly, the loss of items that comes from them. New players don't know that it's best to keep them above 6, to take a break after dying. New players don't see the game like older players do. Many get frustrated by losing items or talk about it in such a natural way in #questions (more on #questions culture here) that it's honestly really scary.

Many people have expressed that the soul point system adds cheapness to the game, comparing it to a mobile game stamina system and a "halfassed attempt at making a permadeath game".

Now the removal of item loss wouldn't only be good for new players. Not losing items would be a massive QoL change for people looking to do challenge runs, not having to fear a loss of items when repeating EO would be huge. More on this later.

But having no penalty at all would allow for /kill to be used for everything. So what's the solution?



The solution to the problem(s) above:

Make it so that your damage is lowered (properly, not the galloping spurs way that can be cheesed super easily, and INCLUDING POISON.) and spell costs are increased (raw that overrides %, not the current raw) for every point you are 6 or below, up to let's say -80% damage/+5 mana.

And finally, since scrolls costing soul points makes no sense under this system, remove the soul point cost from scrolls. This is partially due to new players lacking SP, and also because scrolls costing SP never made much sense anyway.

<Gathering Speed loss was added, but then removed as I realized that hunters gain infinitely more from hunting already>

• Bringing back the challenge run point, maybe there would be a new category of low soul point runs! This would add depth to the game as well. Nopot 0 soul point EO when?
• Hey, prof people. This also completely solves hunters coming back on untradable builds.
• This doesn't mess up the Hunter-Profer dynamic, and instead makes it better. Both sides now have a tangible benefit for killing the other.
• AFKing is much less painful, but still has a demerit.
• Actually guides new players into being more careful and learning the game, instead of losing their stuff and getting mad. Also helps guide them into the areas the game wants them to go, like Emerald Trail before Pigman Ravines, etc.
• SOUL POINT REGEN BECOMES A VIABLE STAT, THIS WAS 100% INTENTIONAL. maybe. not really.

Numbers are definitely up for debate, I made them on the spot, but that's not the main focus. The existence of the well-thought out demerits and the nonexistence of a terrible system is what matters.





Conclusion and letting out frustrations:

So overall I think this is the suggestion that can improve the game the most out of any suggestion, ever.*
*This is obviously not true and I'm saying this because I enjoy saying dumb things

If you're going to say No, you better (at the very least) leave a comment explaining why.
# of people who have explained why: 3
1. They didn't really understand the thread because they barely read it. I was looking forward to criticism and improving this suggestion, but I guess it isn't happening. :/
2. A great point about scrolls. Nice.
3. They kept insisting they were right about scroll costs when person #2 made a brilliant point right before that was completely contradictory to what they believed in. Using ridiculous examples and then avoiding admitting they were really in the wrong, this person really made me feel the whole range of emotions.


One real point, modified and adapted! Still waiting...

Spoiler: Me having a big ego and bragging about how flawless this is

This actually fixes the vast majority of problems that are currently complained about. This system is a perfect fit for Wynncraft's theme, while also guiding the players into the direction that Wynncraft's quests and level progression intend for them to go. It punishes players in a much healthier way than item loss, while still being a major downside to abusing /kill and being reckless. In addition, it opens up new and interesting potential challenges. It also fixes the majority of problems with hunted mode, which no suggestion can even claim to do.

Now onto the real part: It makes soul point regen a viable stat. It won't be a joke anymore. Challenge builds will try to stack -soul point regen so that they can stay at 0 or their current soul points to really do a challenge correctly. Soul point scrolls and/or at least 100% soul point regen worth of equipment would be highly valued by profers and hunters alike. This is absolutely insane and something that's completely unexpected to be solved by a suggestion like this.

While on the topic of the profer-hunter dynamic, this adds meaning to killing each other. The hunter can slow down the profer's prof gathering, while the profer can cripple the hunter. Current hunted is the most broken system since professions themselves, and this soul point suggestion, of all things, fixes the major issues with it. Amazing.

Credits:
@J_Lo777 for helping me modify the balance between profers and hunters
@btdmaster for the voice of reason
@hgbrd for not liking combat ability being penalized
@Crokee for making me realize I could appeal to the prof community
@by2011 for making me realize that this makes soul point regen actually viable
@Bart (MC) for being the harshest critic

​

What Soul Points+ does solve:

Spoiler

• untradable hunted
• a lot of hunted issues in general (but not all of them!)
• The new player experience (well, some of it)
• soul point regen being a joke
• AFKing unsafely and losing all your stuff
• Not realizing what soul points you are on and losing items (since it gives low soul points a tangible effect)

What Soul Points+ does not solve:

Spoiler

• Grindspots being a thing and being **naturally** gravitated towards by a lot of new players
• The problem of undergearing that grindspots naturally bring
• Grindspots and Dungeon XP allowing people to basically skip most of the game and missing out completely
• Quests lacking appeal (!!!)
• PvP (which has never been balanced, so this isn't really a problem except for the fact that hunted somehow was thought of as a good idea)
• The lack of engaging unique "cool things" that are short enough for the average player's attention span but influential enough to have an impact

Semi-related rant about new player trends (Relates to soul points slightly but then goes off the rails):

Spoiler: A lot of new players are allergic to quests. Why?

I find that a lot of the new players seeking help are asking about grinding and/or quick leveling while disliking quests. Why? One popular way that people like to invalidate this anecdote is by claiming that the community is telling them to grind to get levels. That's just not true. These are people who are new to the discord, asking for grinding spots. Because they don't want to do quests. No matter how many excuses you give, it's a fact that the average player in 2020 is all but incompatible with the quest system. Having to consult the wiki often, traveling all over, and doing actual "work" is not very appealing. Getting the **instant gratification** of killing mobs and watching the XP bar go up is far preferred by many players. And they never go back to do quests. When they inevitably come to the discord and ask questions, players that follow this path want one or two things. More XP, or emeralds. How do I earn emeralds. How do I grind efficiently. How do I get rich. How do I level up fast.

And then they learn about corrupted dungeons. They do CDS and CUR. They hit 100. But at what cost? They miss out on the vast majority of quests, don't explore basically all of the world, and lose out on a lot of the magic of the first playthrough.

To people still saying that these players are being influenced to grind:
I only wish I could influence players to go do quests. To experience the game.
And maybe they would, if there would be some real changes being implemented. Not just more puzzles that 99.9% of the playerbase will look up the answer for, not some obscure boss altar hidden behind hints that will be farmed by those who find it on the wiki. Actual changes that help the core gameplay loop.

To be completely honest, soul points not existing at all and allowing /kill abuse is better than the current soul point system by far.

​

 

Yes. Just yes

 

Interesting... this also has a side effect of hindering those that keep dying in hunted mode (hunter moment)...

 

holy shit I just realized this makes soul point regen viable thanks @by2011

 

omg i can finally use my MAX SOUL POINT REGEN sigil of existence
thank you

 

as a fellow MAX SOUL POINT REGEN sigil of existence owner, I am proud!

 

https://www.wynndata.tk/cr/174507368 this

 

wow that's really pog now i can use -soul point regen items with no fear

 

I like this idea very nice.
I was thinking something similar to this, but I also considered walk speed but then I realized how bad that would be and instantly stopped thinking about it.

 

https://wynndata.tk/cr/943297039 budget version, lower level and less work to get

 

This is actually a pretty good solution to a problem I just kinda took for granted. Personal +1 from me.

Maybe make it so that health is decreased to some degree when you're below 6+ soul points too? Or would that just be overkill?

 

I should say that while I think this has good intention, I feel like this would all be an extremely harsh punishment for some new players. At low levels if you know nothing about the game you may wander into somewhere bad and die. Then, after dying they still go the wrong way (but not the same way) and die again. The demerit works imo, but it would make new players find the game a lot harder. The two deaths would bring them down to 6 soul points, and they are already at risk of dropping items. Making them do less damage (which they wont do that much of anyway at level 1-11) aas well as increasing mana cost could make them think the game is a lot more harsh than it really is.

Basically, I do think this is a cool suggestion, and I could see it working. However, new players may find this extremely harsh.

 

Anything is better in the new player's eyes than losing items. A combat demerit would make them realize they actually need to wait for regen/be more careful. (I'm not just saying this, this is experience from talking to new players constantly in #questions.)

I've thought about it being too harsh, but this is far and away the solution that works and fixes so many problems with the game.

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Maybe, until they realize they can't just run at things and expect things to go differently. This system encourages change instead of having an extreme punishment for death. Since your actual combat capabilities don't change when you lose items (unless you lose key items), new players don't care about the soul point system until it's too late. Currently you can keep running in as much as you want, losing items feels like a non-issue until you actually lose them. An actual tangible reduction in combat capability makes the player realize something's happening.


TL;DR: The loss isn't permanent, and actually guides players to be better at the game while following the general path the game wants them to take. It's also much less harsh and much healthier than the current system, while fixing many issues that are all but unfixable.

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Health reduction is scary and would definitely dissuade people but it feels really overkill.

 

gonna respond to this purely from a prof standpoint, because otherwise the suggestion is solid

Basically, I think this system would actually be worse than the current system in place for the profer/hunter dynamic, however not necessarily really to the fault of this suggestion, more to the fault of hunted mode. Prof people can simply be targeted by hunters, and the more they get targeted, the worse their gathering speed gets. The more that hunters kill them, the more that they get punished for it, when in reality its not really their fault they're dying, it's the fault of hunted builds being dumb as hell. Profers can't really kill a good amount of hunters currently (heehoo toxo revenant) without dying themselves, so yeah the hunter WOULD suffer a damage penalty, but that's rather minor in comparison to a gathering speed penalty, as you can simply keep dying and respawning and wear people down with no worries, whereas people gathering would be forced to wait for their soul points to regen, and then inevitably die again because epic hunted mode gamer yes !!!!

The suggestion is cool, I just think that until hunted is fixed this only worsens the situation for professions. Outside of that and for the more widespread audience of new players (because despite everything I said, yes new players > prof players in quantity), this is a pretty solid system so long as its explained well somewhere to them in-game.

 

This would be fixed by actually telling players in the tutorial or somehwere near the start of ragni in like a billboard or sign somewhere to tell the players about soul points. This would solve the issue of the effect being too harsh, which really isn't even close to the harshness that the current system brings, especially to new players who don't know about the system.

Overall agree with the thread, losing shit in wynn sucks hard and new players who aren't aware of the system yet def do get punished for it badly with losing their shit. This ends up making a lot of players quit, so its a +1 for me

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This system affects poison damage too, so hunters with toxos would still be nerfed in terms of damage when they die. Prof people being punished with lower damage and mana increases seems fine to me, for dying I don't find anything wrong with the punishment. Really this change nerfs hunters more, as the damage reduction will effect them a lot more than prof people who just run away anyways.

 

the punishment feels a lot more lasting to profers than hunters to me imo

 

i would assume that hunter builds have very little room for deviation in there items, especially with mythics due to high reqs
however, from what i understand, prof builds are mostly walk speed i think, so you could likely add more soul point regen items, effectively making it more lasting on hunters

 

Numbers are always up for change, I made them up on the fly and they're not perfect. There has to be some downside though.

And remember, that's the demerit when you hit 0 soul points. It's much lighter at, let's say, 5 or 6


Edit: read my latest comment, I did a 180 on this.

 

I don't see a point in this approach mainly because it focusses on punishment/ incurring penalties worse than losing items. I'd suggest "reward players for having more than 6 soul points" as a better solution, but keeping your items is already rewarding. Maybe just a detailed alert the lower your soul points get is all that's needed for this issue.

 

See, that's the entire point of this thread. You skipped over the explanation about why the loss of items is such a bad mechanic.


You also ignored the part where this system solves basically all of the major problems that wynncraft currently suffers from.