Hunted Arena, Bounty Boards & Pvp Balance (edited Balance Section)

Currently in Wynn the only real ways to make money are professions and loot running. In my opinion both are very grindy and quite as fun, as is the nature of MMORPGs. That's all well and good, but I'd like to be able to make money from PvP so I've proposed a few ideas here that could make that possible.

Suggestion #1: Balance Changes
PvP is currently very unbalanced, this is quite obvious. Currently PvP is the first person to attack dies, if you have high agility you basically win. Archer is kind of broken because you can do massive damage from a distance without ever taking any. Also intelligence is a bit meta because if you want to do damage you need to do spells, and you basically can't make a decent spell build without very high intelligence. It's been brought to my attention by @CountBurn that there's a lot of build balancing that could / would be required with PvP. The thing is right now we really don't know what is unbalanced for builds and what isn't, considering PvP lasts 5 seconds no matter what and no one tries it. These may not perfect the balance of PvP but they're a step in the right direction in my eyes. Here's some things I think could help either way. Oh also I tried to keep these very concise since there's a lot. If you have questions, ask me please I'm happy to explain.

Spoiler: PvP / Hunted Balance Changes

1. Decrease final damage dealt to players by 90%. This will happen AFTER elemental defenses, regular defenses, etc. has been applied. Players spells are balanced around mobs, which have a lot more health than players. This change gives players more time to react and counter and isn't just whoever gets hit first loses.
2. Make untradeable items drop in hunted mode. They should drop on the ground, and not be able to be picked up by the enemy. The owner can pick them up only in hunted mode. This is so they can actually risk losing the item, which is necessary.
3. Make potions take longer to heal. They should heal once per second for like 10 (or more, GM's choice here) seconds. Taking or dealing damage will end the potions effects. This way potions can't be spammed in combat (this is good for PvE too), which makes fighting more meaningful and isn't just the last one with potions wins. With this, boss arenas should be changed to have more cover where you can heal, and overall just allow classes to use terrain to their advantage more in general.
4. Better telegraph where you can take cover and where you can't. Apparently it's unclear where people should be able to take cover sometimes, and they'll take damage even when it seems like they shouldn't while hiding. It also makes mage heal & tanks more valuable. Credit for this idea to @Francis12qwasyx
5. Nerf archer. It does too much damage (arrow storm & bomb) for such high survivability (escape and arrow shield), and it doesn't have to aim (arrow bomb). Shouldn't that be the whole point of archer?

Spoiler: Personal Desires (Not Being Suggested Here)

These are just some things I think might be nice. If you vote for this suggestion, you are not voting for these although feel free to show your support in the comments.

1. Buff Strength & Defense.
   
2. I'm not personally a fan of skill points being correlated with elements. I feel it kind of limits the total amount of potential builds and forces the player to be less creative. This is not something I feel should be implemented because it would require changing a fuck ton of items and rebalancing a lot of gameplay, but I'll mention it anyways.
3. To make assassin's smokebomb more useful, maybe try this: While inside your smokebombs, you'll have invisibility for three seconds. This only goes away if you use a spell or damage something. You will not receive the vanish +80% damage. This now has usage in combat, since smokebomb is a better escape and now other classes can't just spam ice snake, arrow bomb, war scream, etc. to cancel assassin's vanish.

Suggestion #2: Hunter's Arena
Hunters will have access to a PvP Arena somewhere in Wynn. You could require a quest to introduce / unlock it or whatever, I don't particularly care. I'm writing this as if all of the players using the arena will be level 103+, but if a way can be found to allow all level ranges access then feel free. Anyways it would work like this

Spoiler: Hunter's Arena

1. Every hour, a PvP Tournament setup will occur, with a 1 LE entry fee. Everyone from every world competes against each other. If you entered in WC1, you'd still face off with players who entered from other worlds. If you die in Hardcore mode in the arena, you will not lose your hardcore tag.
2. You fight other players in a tournament bracket. You do NOT lose any of your items in this tournament. The real reward is that the top 3 winners get emeralds. The minimum prize every time is minimum 1 LE for 3rd place, 2 LE for 2nd place, and 3 LE for 1st place. Even if only one person signs up, they get 3 LE. This would be overpowered, but the amount of players required to make up for the 6 LE payout is six players. I feel at least six players will be willing to sign up each tournament. The chance of free LE if not enough people sign up only encourages more people to enter.
3. If more than six players participate, are given to the winners, and the original base prizes are erased. 56% of the pool goes to 1st place, 28% goes to 2nd place, 14% goes to 3rd place. There's 2% left there, which should be deleted in my opinion. I feel that it could also be beneficial for 5% of the initial winnings to get deleted, just to take more emeralds out of the economy. p.s. for those who don't know, this helps combat inflation. So, if 20 people signed up for a tournament, that's 20 LE coming in. That's 81920 emeralds. If 5% of that gets deleted, then 2% of the remaining gets deleted that' leaves 76267 emeralds left, with 5653 (about 1.25 LE) getting deleted. That then gets distributed with the winner getting 42710 emeralds, or about 10 LE. With this, people can fight other hunters, money will go out of the economy to help inflation and it's got dynnaaaaamicc equillibrium so people will always be doing it.
4. For each round of combat the arena should change. They will have plenty of cover, tunnels, places to hide or try and work your way up to get an advantage on your opponent. They should be a size that allows them to run momentarily but won't keep them so far apart that they won't die, as you'll have a limited time to kill your opponent. Probably about 5 minutes although you could scale this based on how many people are participating in the tournament. Ideally this would take just under an hour, so there would still be time for them to sign up for the following tournament if they desired.
5. One last thing regarding class balance. There's two options I think could work. Allow people to use their own items, or offer players a specific build for various playstyles. Allow each player to choose from a variety of item sets temporarily for the fight such as spell builds, hybrid, heavy melee, poison builds, builds with various major IDs, etc. I'd prefer letting others use their own items and balancing accordingly, but this could be one way to avoid having to balance every single build combination.

Suggestion #3: Bounty Boards
I think it would be awesome if you could place bounties on a player. This system is not particularly long to explain so I'll try to do it quick.

Spoiler: Bounty Boards

1. Every player gets one bounty per day. You can put that bounty on a player, which will add a 10 EB prize to their head. If you desire you can choose to add extra LE to a bounty. If your bounty expires, you will get the emeralds back. Multiple players can add bounty a player, so if 4 people bounty one player that will be a 40 EB bounty reward.
2. A bounty expires after 24 hours. If a player bounties someone and they aren't killed within 24 hours it goes away. If one player bounties someone, someone else bounties the same person 12 hours later, and then the original person bounties that person again once theirs renews, the bounty will not reset (since there's no period where there isn't a bounty on the player). However, the new bounty would still only be 20 EB since the original bounty expired (decreasing the bounty by 10 EB), but then increased by 10 EB again once the bounty was reapplied.
3. Every minute the bountied player spends in Hunted mode in an unsafe area, their bounty will go up by 5 emeralds (perhaps 1 emerald if they're unsafe on a hardcore class) per bounty placed on them. If there are 5 bounties on you, your bounty cost will increase by 25 emeralds per minute.
4. You can pay 1 LE to claim someones bounty. When you do this, you will be notified every time the player leaves and enters hunted mode, and will be able to track their position. This is both to be used as a money sink (multiple people tracking, only 1 gets the prize), and so that people can't amass huge bounties just by hiding and then have them claimed by their friends.
5. If it wasn't obvious yet, once you kill someone with a bounty, all of their bounties go away and you can get all of the emeralds that had accumulated.

Suggestion #4: Hunted Loot Quality
Add loot quality bonus to hunted mode. Fairly simple, this makes it so that richer players will use hunted mode while loot running, so hunted players have other people to target and can gain some money off of it. Higher risk for higher reward.

Alright, that's it for my hunted thread. If for the most part you agree with a suggestion vote for it in the poll. Please tell me your thoughts in the comments, thanks.

 

too long didnt read

jk, nice suggestion

 

Fuck dude FUCKKKKKK.... Why you gotta do me like that Fiyee ;-;

 

hhic is gone

 

I like the three last ideas a lot, especially the bounties one. I agree that players should get some kind of warning when combat happens though, and i think having a warning come on screen when you enter within 100 blocks of someone else with PVP mode on would be fair, not the damage reduction.

 

Let's be real, Hunted barely makes HIC any more difficult. This definitely will. Although I do think deaths in Arena shouldn't remove hardcore status.

I never said anything about a warning. I never said anything about a warning, I said that if you choose to claim the bounty of someone you want to kill YOU get notified when they enter hunted. Not the other way around. Also the damage reduction is necessary, otherwise combat will still be first hit wins. Player spells are balanced for mobs which have much more health than players, so the total damage players do to other players needs to be scaled down for all of hunted.

 

The hunters arena sounds like the nether but for rich people, rich people with insane one-shot or tank builds will pay ONE LE to join, people will 100% use the most scummy tactics and exploit the most powerful things the game. This is starting to sound like the nether all over again, but with good map design. Games will not last an hour-long as everyone is going invincible mage tank or archer 1 shot from range to win. Your suggestion to fix this is to take away people's freedom of choice and limit their options to preset builds made by someone. Unless there's a TON of presets and perfect balance I cant see everyone having fun with this as part of what people really love about wynncraft is making their own builds, that's a huge part of the endgame, if people could only use preset builds made by someone else then the game would be pretty bland. But if you want to make the game balanced for pvp you are going to have to change every. single. item. This is why I don't believe you can really make a balanced or fair wynn pvp mode, or at least do so without spending a lifetime of updating, tweaking and changing everything in-game dealing with combat. This doesn't sound very realistic to expect this from the ct, and if I put myself in their shoes I would not be excited to balance every single part of combat.

Personally I wouldn't play this mode because it would be too expensive, there is no way I could afford to play this for fun, it would be a total sweatfest for the le reward. If you let players choose their builds then I would probably try making a super glass cannon archer build or a super tanky mage build (the nether). I would probably lose 2le and never play this game mode again, while people urge me to 'just make a good build for ez le'. If this was the preset build version, I would probably try two builds, lose 2le, and never try any other ones because it would be way too expensive to try all of them out.
Prediction -
allowing player made builds - rich people with mythics and op items winning(godly ids, or expensive crafteds) all the time, and only get richer
preset - rich people destroying the average player because they have spent so much time learning all the preset classes and have the most experience
sorry I can't give good or constructive criticism

 

Can you give me an example of some "scummy tactics" please? Three or so would be nice. Also, for a one shot build with my 10% damage scaling change alone would require a spell that does 100000 damage for a player with 10,000 health, without any defense or elemental defenses being considered. Also, regarding effort required by the CT... The only thing they need to do is build the arenas, which wouldn't take very long at all especially compared to the rest of Wynncraft. If you're referring to the devs, then I'd argue it's a hell of a lot easier than your uh... interesting Fortnite x Wynncraft battle royale suggestion.

Also I don't really see how this is too expensive, I'd argue every player who reaches level 103 (which is the intended level minimum for this arena) has AT LEAST 1 LE, not to mention that there is a solid chance to gain more both from this and other Hunted features I've suggested here. That super glass cannon archer you mentioned would be much easier to counter with agility changes OR strength and defense buffs, which I've also neatly suggested here. As for your mage, well that could surely be countered by one of those "one shot" builds you've proposed, if we're pretending like you're correct for a moment. If we're going to be realistic and say that one shot builds will no longer work, then a mixture of stealth, creativity with the landscape or honestly just out-damaging your healing would be enough of a counter.

While you're correct with the argument that mythics could provide an advantage in combat, couldn't the same thing be said about the rest of mythic's application in the game. If you have any solutions to this issue, then feel free to provide some.

 

the arena will just become dead content over time, open world with 90% less dmg (and mage heal effectiveness thanks) is a much better idea

 

I'm not sure if you know what this is going to be like, judging from your 31 kills in the nether I assume you haven't been as interested in wynns PVP as much I have up until now

Spoiler

]well back in the day of the nether... we had players that would play for fun and some that wouldn't
- the tank mage could be both casual and sweaty. You would have unkillable mages with full rainbow defs and statues. A casual tank mage would stand in the middle, constantly ice snaking people and dealing no damage to them as no one would deal any damage to them. I'm not kidding these people were literally invincible, you could not kill them, not even pushing them in lava would work as they have the HEAL spell, which is what mage invincible. With your damage reductions to make battles last longer than 5 seconds, I would not even consider trying to kill one of these mages, as I would be playing as one of these mages with my statue build, insane elemental defs, defence skill points, and king of hearts/bonder. On the sweaty side of tank mage you have players using fully powdered armor, for even more elemental defense so they would not be healing as much, because they would kill people while also being invincible. If one of these sweaty tank mages were on you, you were dead. There was no escape, as they would non stop spam ice snake instead of heal, and very very slowly meteor you to death. Some mages would even go to the extent of using health pots, this just shows you how far people will go to make other people hate the nether.
- problem with tank mage in your mode - you will make it harder for players to kill each other by reducing damage people deal, so PVP doesn't last 5 seconds, well this change sounds like a tank mage literally becoming an unkillable god

-archers. do you like killing enemies from a distance they can not attack you back from, attack players and have the advantage of them having to find you first before they can fight back, having the damage of an assassin but at a range so there is literally no risk at all when it comes to dealing large sums of damage? well then, go, archer, because you are not very good at the nether, and you need as many advantages over other players as possible also you never have to cast any other spell than arrow bomb and escape, one to kill people, and one to get away super easy, almost a get out of jail free card.
- I have no idea what to do about this, but most of the time half of the players in the nether were archer (and the other half were mage of course)

- poison, agility, thorns, and reflection are where the worst parts of both classes can agree on something, the easiest way to kill players is have the kill themselves. Poison mage or archers would clear the nether server instantly. If a poison mage joined the game, everyone hated that player and hated it most when you get ice snaked by them, stopping you in your tracks and by then you knew you would already be dead in 2 more ticks of poison. Archers would camp in safety and shoot you with an arrow bomb or a single arrow of arrow storm, and that was your death. The mistake that leads to your death whenever you played against a poison build was simply playing the game, so people wouldn't, everyone would leave the nether as soon as one of these poison abuse builds joined. The next easiest way to win in PVP was to avoid death, but not with skill or planning, but with the most bull mechanic there was. Agility archers were rampant, get you a ton of walk speed, as soon as you get stunning escape and run away from everything until you're safe, and if you ever make a mistake don't worry because agility will save your life almost every time. You could play spell spam assassin, spin attack an agility archer until your mana bar was drained and they would have dodged every spell. The worst part was when tank mages did this or any mage build, you had one chance at killing these mages, and half the time they would dodge your attack then ice snake you and now your dead. doesn't that sound so fun and balanced?
- you suggested making tweaks to agility and intel, I say remove dodging and code a whole new thing for agility to do (because as you say that would be super easy, otherwise I wouldn't suggest this because it doesn't)

-stun spells, because we all love making 1 mistake and never being able to move again until your dead. this was mainly a mage problem because ice snake = death. if you were ever ice snaked you had 2 options, either die to the mage or another player that's going to pick you off because you are just standing still, or hope that its a tank mage that has no damage and will only spam ice snake, trapping you there but not killing you. Ice snake is just bad for PVP, stun an enemy then kill them it's as simple as that and it's as easy as that. Sometimes archers escape stun spell would be used against players, but unless it was a poison archer then this is a fair stun spell, assassin spin attack is not really fair but assassin is just so bad in PVP you didn't really have to worry.
- just do something about mages ice snake

-the last thing I'm going to write in here is how bad assassin and warrior were in the nether, warrior tanks were awful, as they were super tanky but dealt no damage whatsoever so they were completely useless, any poison build would kill them so easily. assassin was basically for people who play for fun, assassin was the casual fun class that was no good whatsoever, an assassin stood no chance against a mage, but sometimes could kill an archer if the archer was not poison or agility, and ofc it could kill warrior
-assassin and warrior are basically laughing stocks when it comes to mage and archer, which I suggest changing literally every single thing about assassin and warrior to make them as good as mage and archer, obviously, this will be stupidly easy for the ct, as everything balancing is
-also, shaman is going to just throw another cog in the machine, I predict it to be very annoying with its pull spells and stun, also healing yeah shaman is basically mage 2.0
once again I apologize for my lack of knowledge in literally everything here's a preemptive message saying I'm wrong and your right

it's a wynn hunger games mode but alright I guess your right I did just make the entire thing fortnite hah.. as if I know what games I play and what games I don't and where my inspiration comes from

 

I don’t think it will become dead content. If it became dead content and no one was using it, then people could use it for free LE which would then increase the amount of people using it. Like I said, the minimum prizes are 1, 2 and 3 LE no matter how many people participate.

 

Edited balance changes. Moved agility / int changes to personal desires, and added ideas based on smokebomb, potions, and cover in combat.

 

Assassin's Vanish doesn't get cancelled by damage anymore if I remember correctly...

 

Just tested it, this is not the case. Taking damage immediately cancels your vanish.

 

All pvp should be -90% damage (but also heal effectiveness reduced and pots disabled), I agree with current pvp being way too "who hits first"

 

Then also nerf health regen and/or lifesteal since guardian exists.

 

Yeah, all forms of everything has to scale other than HP itself

 

Really well made suggestion +1

 

Only damage has to change. Healing is already balanced for player health whereas spell damage is balanced for mob health.

Potions don’t need to be disabled. See my suggestion for what should happen to them (it’s under balance).

 

The problem here is some build specialized in health regen (like guardian builds) they don't do enough damage to kill a player but they are also practically unkillable due to regaining 5000 health every 5 seconds. Therefore healing must be nerfed or it will affect the gameplay.