Guilds Improving Guild Wars

Introduction:

This past month I decided to get really into warring. I bought mythic weapons, created optimized builds, and searched the trade market for OP consumables; just to find that 1 in 100 wars include level 100 mobs. After 1200 wars, 1100+ of them being against level 50 mobs, I realized that the current guild war system has to be changed.

The Problem:

For those of you who don't know what guild wars are, to put it simply, a guild claims a territory as their own, and then purchases mobs to defend that territory. If another guild comes to try and claim that zone, they have to kill all the mobs that the previous guild placed. Interesting system, awful execution.

The problem is with the price of the mobs. To place 1 thousand mobs (the maximum number) on a territory, a guild can pay between 1.5 thousand emeralds, and 23 thousand emeralds.

The standard 1 thousand mob defense is 300 rangers, 300 mercenaries, 300 rogues, and 100 barbarians, all level 50. This comes out to 1520 emeralds. To place the same exact defense, but all mobs level 100, costs 10,200 emeralds. Because mob spawning rate is only dependent on how many players there are in the war, killing 1k level 50 mobs and killing 1k level 100 mobs takes roughly the same amount of time (assuming one has an optimized end-game build)

Fighting level 50 mobs all the time is not enjoyable at all, and since warring is the only end-game content (unless running Li over and over is "fun" for you), it's unfortunate that the only end-game content can be done half-way through the game.

My Solution:

As a guild levels up, more mobs are unlocked to place as defense. A level 1 guild can only place level 50 mobs, but since level 50 mobs are the only mobs placed, then warring against a brand new guild VS warring against the highest level guild in the game (Hax) will be the exact same experience.

Level 55 is the final level that a guild unlocks more defenses, they can place Death (the boss).

My proposal is that every guild level after 55, mobs higher than level 50 are discounted by a certain percentage.

As an example, I included an example of Level vs. price of mobs. For this example, I used the normal 1k filler mobs, but at level 100 instead of level 50:

Spoiler: Graph

(in case the image doesn't work: https://imgur.com/wiUYwkW )
For reference: Current price of 1k level 100 filler is 10,200 Emeralds, and the cheapest it could be with this regression is 2,128 E

As you can see, I used a specific function so that the price of high level mobs would never be lower than or equal to placing level 50 mobs. Also, the benefits of the discount are more pronounced during the first couple of levels after level 55, so that it doesn't make the highest level guilds too much more powerful than lower level guilds.

Also, if you think my discount is too severe, this is the function I created, so the percentages can be altered to make the discount less extreme:

Spoiler: Function

Note: I've never conveyed math very well before, so sorry if this is just an absolute mess lol, I don't know what I'm doing

(in case the image doesn't work: https://imgur.com/LGeWiJF )

P1 and P2 are the two variables that can be controlled, P1 is the discount from level 55 to 56 (in the above graph I used 6% [0.06]. P2 is the rate at which that discount is lowered (if it was always 6% then the price would drop too quickly and would also eventually go under 1520). (In the graph I used 0.002). L is the guild level. This function calculates the price of putting the 1k level 100 defense at a certain guild level L.

The above graph and function are just examples that I came up with and personally thought was fair; but this suggestion is mostly based around mobs getting discounted, not as much about it being discounted by that exact amount.

All mobs (besides boss mobs) would follow the same function for the discount, and if a small amount of mobs is placed, the price would always round up.

Boss mobs would never be discounted at any level

What would this accomplish?

1: An incentive to level up your guild past level 55. Currently the only benefits to leveling up a guild after 55 is prestige (I guess), and getting 1 more member slot per level up.

2: Fighting against a high level guild would actually be a challenge. Currently, warring against a level 10 sub guild and warring against the highest level guild in the game is the exact same experience. High level guilds should be rewarded for their efforts, and should be able to defend their lands against random level 50 players.

3: WARS WOULD BE MORE FUN. This is the biggest one. Currently, every single war is the exact same: 1 thousand level 50 mobs. Every once in a while you come across an actual defense (22k or 60 snipers), and you get to test your skill. If higher level mobs were viable to place, more people would want to war, and the playerbase of end-game players would increase.

 

Honestly, I quit Wynncraft because the guild system was wack, but this solves EVERYTHING. I really love this idea, good work on the graph and the equation, very informative.

 

It’s bold of you to assume guilds will actually place higher level defenses in the first place, seriously. Guilds want to conserve money, not to give their enemies a challenge, if anything to a lot of warrers, running into a hard defense is a motivation boost. Guilds don’t place 22ks normally because most relevant/larger guilds can actually beat them because they worked up to the point where they can, guild leaders know this and that’s why usually the best defense is a 1K 50s as it is boring to the attacker. If you want an actual discount of your defense budget, drop some of your claims. I’ve heard it’s worked for most guilds.

 

What a great way for you long established guilds to save money so you don't get drained by the enemies you have made. Now think about the new guilds, or the players that are new to guild wars. Oh god a 1k defense takes 10k emeralds. Got any idea for this? It's 2.5le. With that price to pay for a full defense, it's becoming more impossible for new guilds to even get a foothold.

A counter suggestion is to introduce a defense discount for low level guilds and make that discount diminish over time or levels.

 

I do not get why you would wanna implement a system that is just the rich get richer. This only benefits big guilds which do not need any more help, they are already big.

 

I'm interested in more detailed elaborations of your arguments.

First, the thread says it costs 10,200 emeralds to defend with lvl 100 fillers, however you still have the opportunity to go with the old lvl 50 fillers which are 1,520 only. That's a little bit less than 2.5LE but you might have guessed that already. Nevertheless, it doesn't make more impossible for newer guilds to get a foothold, it's literally the same system as it is now.

Second, it's bold of you two to assume it would save money, considering that hora stated level 100 filler defense prices would cap at around 2.1k which are still more expensive than lvl 50 ones. He never said high or low level guilds would be forbidden to defend with lvl 50 mobs, he neither said that lvl 50 mob prices would drop, he said prices for mobs above lvl 50 would decrease, however they wouldn't be cheaper than the lowest tier. So what's your point in saying the "rich gets richer" or "saving money to not get drained by the enemies one has made"?

 

Personally, small guilds already have it too good and it's the big guilds that actually could use a bonus. As Hora said, fighting Hax currently is almost the exact same as fighting a random small guild because there's simply no real benefit to leveling your guild. What distinguishes Hax between some random new guild? Sure, Hax has a hell of a lot more members, too bad all you need to do wars as fast as them is 3, 4 if you want to be incredibly optimal.

Small guilds can drain endlessly without having to worry about claims (usually), can place all of the level 50 mobs always placed by bigger guilds, and only need 3 people to do it.

Bigger guilds usually have claims that they constantly get drained for having (don't pull that retarded "haha drop some claims then idiot" shit on me, you get drained as a guild regardless of how many claims you have or what they are. It's happened to every single guild currently on the map and many prior), can place a whole bunch more mobs that are about as hard to kill as level 50s, and house a lot more people that don't actually matter in the war scene really, excluding the idea of subguilds.

The best part is the irony- the only real advantage big guilds can get over small guilds is through just making new smaller guilds to use as subguilds.

Rework the entire fucking system while you're at it Wynn lmfao

 

"you get to test your skill" - In other words spam left click and abilities

 

1. If you want to claim some land, there's a cost to keep them. If you don't wanna get drained, give up claims or make less enemies.
2. Levelling your guild make it look stronger and people tend to join stronger guilds so you create diversity and strength in your guild. Do you have to reminded of this?
3. Only if there's a dislike button.

 

is this unironic?

 

Of course you are going to be drained if you are being attacked Goden, thats why you attempt to make peace with those who are attacking you in the first place, for example in the real world, countries lose money and go into debt for attempting to buy things, like paying soldiers, jobs, keeping things inside running, having wars, and in some cases buying land. They keep this up to maintain their status as a country until they can no longer continue. They make their own money by taxes, donations, and exporting their own resources from their own mainland/other land. You can see these kinds of things in the wynn system of emeralds and xp, if you want to not be drained go for somewhere that yields the better emerald income. Though I do agree that guilds need to be fixed in terms of warring persay, I wanted to throw out my opinion on being drained and such. Thank you for reading this.

 

It's unfortunate that any topic about guilds just becomes a front for arguments between the guilds that currently own the map and those that don't. Just because you see my username, and see that I'm from a large guild with a map presence, doesn't mean you automatically have to assume what I'm suggesting is only going to help my guild. If you read the entire suggestion you'd know that, but the second you see what guild I'm from your mind is already made.

I'll reiterate my thread because you either didn't read it or understand it. I'm not suggesting that the baseline level 50 defense be altered at all. Low level guilds and high level guilds can both place the exact same 1k level 50 fillers at any level, and that baseline price never changes.

In fact, since the cap for higher level mobs never goes underneath that 1520 mark, larger guilds would only drain money faster than they do now, if they decided to place higher level defenses.

Low level guilds can't gain a foothold not because of money, but because they don't have enough active players/active allies.

This system would only drain larger guilds faster. Currently, guilds pay exactly 1520 E on every territory they own, because it is stupid to pay the absurd prices for an actual defense. Giving guilds the option to pay more in order to set the bar slightly higher for their territories to be taken would only make it more enjoyable for enemy to take territories, and each territory would cost more. In return, players who decide to raid a large guild would have to be properly prepared.

Thank you for providing a legitimate counter argument to my suggestion. This system would provide an incentive for higher level guilds to place actual defenses, in order to try and stop a solo warrer, or a group that is not prepared. The option to place level 50s is still there, and still the most viable monetarily. Also, if the war system has devolved into trying to bore your enemies by wasting their time, why not try to change the system? There's no reason the war system has to be so toxic.

Is it ironic that somebody who wars for 10 hours a day against the same level 50 mobs scoffs at a suggestion that would make it more enjoyable? Yes.

 

warring for 10 whole hours a day OhISee

 

Ah yes, big guilds do need the help because they need to keep their land, great argument. So small guilds do not need land? How do they expect to get xp? It is in the best interest for any guild big or small to hold onto as many territories as they can. Big guilds do not need to come crying because they are getting drained by small guilds when they literally own the entire map, you already have a ton.

On another note, why should higher level guilds only get the discount is my point? Just globally make mobs cheaper and make it so that lower level mobs get more expensive as levels go on to try to discourage use of level 50s (although this still wont solve much as guilds will still try to place the cheapest stuff possible since anyone can beat a max defense solo with a somewhat decent build).

 

1: I designed my system so that the greatest benefit of leveling up happens right after reaching level 55 (For this case, I'm assuming that by 'small guild', you mean ones that are around level 55-65 or so, with not that many people). The way the discount works is that the maximum discount per level is between level 55 and 56, and then the discount is reduced by 0.002 (starting at 0.06) each level. So a guild only has to get to level ~66 in order for the price to drop by 50%.

2: This system does not hinder smaller guilds from holding territories at all. Nothing is changed about the 1520 baseline; so smaller guilds can just hold their territory with filler defenses. If they decide to raid a larger guild, they will have to be prepared enough to deal with better opposition.

 

There are currently only 22 guilds that are above level 55. This what I mean by big guilds, there are so many guilds that are not above level 55 that would not benefit at all from this. Also, why would this be any better than having a global decrease in mob costs and making the lower level mobs start costing more at a certain point? Global decrease helps the guilds that are not in the top 22 and would discourage those guilds in the top 22 from using lower level mobs.

And well yes it does not technically hinder smaller guilds from holding stuff, it does nothing to help them and only benefits those guilds in the top 22.

 

Obviously yes there's a cost to keep them, however I'd argue the current system literally encourages small guilds to not claim land and instead drain exclusively because it is quite literally the fastest way to gain emeralds for your guild without paying for it. Need an example? During Fed, Hgz managed a bank of well over 2 million (I believe it passed 3 at one point) almost exclusively from farming 1k 50 defenses on guilds and not defending at all, obtaining all of that in the span of like three months. I can almost say with certainty that no guild has a claim that generates anywhere near so large of an amount of emeralds passively and has not since the time of Hax controlling the entirety of the map simultaneously. Having to walk around without being able to retaliate whatsoever to defend your guild isn't fun whatsoever, and I sincerely doubt there's a single person in the entire community that enjoys doing 1k 50s equally as much.

As for making less enemies, for a current example look at ILQ. They have so many treaties and things that literally none of us in Luna are able to keep track, and are peaceful with nearly every single guild alive currently in some way or another. Yet they still get wiped. Being completely peaceful in the current setting is literally impossible and hasn't been doable since Fantasy was wiped out.
(And Fantasy didn't stay peaceful through having few enemies, it was just that no one cared to bother with them since it would just lead to a lot of tedium).

Look at TGR. They were recruiting extremely fast and had their guild full within days of the thread being opened, also days after the guild was created. The number helps sure, but it isn't anywhere near as significant as the thread design or community/war presence overall.

a dislike button would help a lot

This is true of course, however there's a slight flaw here in that wynn territories simply just don't give any significant emeralds. Sure, maybe they do if you hold them for months on end like Hax and TNL did (or were forced to in TNL's case lmao), but realistically that isn't anywhere close to the case. Territories need their emerald drops upscaled to be even slightly considered in territory designation and claiming on the basis of emerald gain, because as of right now it's so painfully minuscule that you're better off just draining, as many guilds just do.

A) Obviously they don't need help keeping their land, I said nothing even similar. Draining clearly implies that the guild attacking isn't defending, and even when guilds do defend clearly most Luna guilds (or about half I guess) don't end up taking much of a hit regardless. Great argument.
B) Small guilds need land, sure. Perhaps instead they actually work for it diplomatically however, like how many smaller guilds have done and therefore thrived due to it? I can name small guilds going all the way back to Knights Radiant in Coa that did exactly that and ended up gaining some land to work with because of it. It's not hard for a small guild to figure out what they gotta do to get a spot on the map diplomatically, otherwise it wouldn't be so consistently proven possible. Alternatively, you can take the route most small guilds take, which is charging in blindly and then not trying to settle things peacefully and instead just complaining about how the system is super broken. Sure it's broken, but if you want to actually make it as a guild on the map during a broken system you may as well conform and make the best out of it.
Also, I along with I'm fairly sure most of the current community prefer actually enjoying the game instead of controlling the map. However, instead most of the active people in guilds just literally hate the game for the way wars are handled currently, including how popular of a tactic draining has become. We, or at least I, am not crying for help about controlling the map. I'd just like to enjoy the actual game for the first time in three fucking years once more.

edit: also i agree with aurum just make it a global decrease, mob prices suck atm

 

This is why I don't get involved in guild stuff. Y'all are crazy.

 

thank you for your contribution

 

thank you for your contribution