(game Design) Coordinates Are Terrible Game Design

I’m planning on making a series of threads where I explain why certain things about Wynncraft are bad and good and what can be done to fix it.
These threads are all meant to be constructive and I definitely accept constructive criticism.
Topics I plan to cover are in the spoiler but please suggest more!

Spoiler: Topics

Why coordinates in the quest book is terrible game design.
Why the level cap shouldn’t be increased.
Why Poisoning the Pest is a bad early game quest.
Why Wynn is too easy.

Why?
First of all. Why do we play games? Well, to have fun. If we didn’t have fun we would be playing another game or doing something else. What is fun then? That on the other hand is hard to define. I would argue being immersed in a world and completing challenges are fun. You know when you get sucked in to a story or when you complete a hard puzzle.
That’s fun. When you get those arbitrary numbers in your quest book you go to them. You focus on the numbers instead of the world. Instead of searching for that landmark you concentrate on that number going up or down. Instead of being immersed in the world you just go there.
If NPC 1 just tells me to go to this place what’s the point of talking to them?

Solution:
The solution is quite simple. Just have NPC’s tell you a general direction to go in or ”follow that road and then turn right when you see the big rock”. That’s so much more immersive and makes you experience the world and notice all the small details.

Counter arguments:
A common counter argument is what if the players gets lost? Well they shouldn’t if it’s done good. It’s not hard to make a landmark that stands out or a path to follow. Another one I’ve seen is that people should be able to jump into a quest even if they quit in the middle of a quest and forget what they were doing. Well why not just have the location of the NPC that told you were to go in the quest book like ”NPC is close to Olux. Outside that big house to the west.” (Completely made up house idk if it exists).
You can even write down the directions they gave you in the quest book. That makes more sense from a realism perspective as well. The quest book should be your thoughts and things people have said. Not some magic book that tells you what to do.

Conclusion:
The point is that handholding and underestimating the players intelligence isn’t fun. Immersing yourself in the world instead of viewing it as an arbitrary thing that only exists to go from quest location to quest location is fun.
There is also a bigger problem where quests force you to do arbitrary things that make no sense but that’s another topic.
The reason why they should be removed is simple. It’s just not fun and drags you out of the world. Finding your way can be as much of an adventure as the scripted sequences if you let it.
That’s why coordinates in the quest book is terrible game design.

 

While coordinates can definitely break immersion for some, they're part of the philosophy of "treat your players like they're 5 years old." It is easy to get lost, it happens to me all the time. Coords have probably helped out lots of players, not all of which want a crazy immersive experience. Maybe we can use some location description in quests, and coords for others. After all, finding stuff is often more complicated than "Follow the road then turn right." I feel like coords are more of a matter of personal preference than anything else, maybe there could be some way to turn them off if you want a challenge?

Also, if coords get removed there will be a lot more threads in the question section. I wouldn't mind that, but I'm sure that more elitist members of the community would be annoyed that players don't know "basic stuff in the game"


(Also off-topic, this is a cool idea for a series on the forums. Make more of these in the future, please!)

 

Making it optional is definitely good enough for me. However it would require some changes because right now the game is impossible without them. However I fail to see how instructions where to find things can’t be followed even by a five year old. How easy or hard things are to find is entirely up to the game creators.

 

They have to put coords or it will confuse the click-click-click npc text people to where they go next.

EDIT: Even if there were directions where to go, it doesn't matter if they don't take a solid 30 seconds to look at them.

 

I'm pretty sure they all ready started not using coordinates, which is a nice improvement.

 

No. As I said the directions can be put in the quest book. Besides ”click-click-click npc text” play imo should not be encouraged as you’re not experiencing the game to it’s fullest. And if it’s your second or more playthrough you shouldn’t have a hard time finding it anyways.

Sadly not really. Many of the recent quests use coords just that they explain it as ”here I’ll mark the location” or ”I’ll put the coordinates in your quest book”.

 

I agree coordinates are a pain to use

GMs should be using landmarks and directions, even "head south-west along the path" is better than checking f3.

 

I don't have anything against the use of coordinates. Most quests already tell you the general direction of where to go, and the actual coordinates are never brought up in conversation, so I don't see how having them displayed in your quest book ruins the immersion. Especially since the quest book isn't meant to be canon or realistic anyway. Otherwise you could argue that having all of your quests displayed would break the immersion too, but that would go against practically, which in my eyes is a good trade-off in game design.

In some areas of the map like the Canyon the Lost, it's hard enough to use the coordinates they give you in the quest book. Removing them entirely would just cause players to open up the wiki to find the coordinates anyway if they get lost, which would break the immersion way more.

Just my two cents.

 

In other RPG games, you usually have a minimap that marks exactly where you have to go while you're doing a quest, making it easy for the player to follow.

However, in Wynn we do not have that, and that is why the coordinate system is necessary here.

 

Salted: stay where you are

 

Im not sure but all quests do tell the general direction. The questbook is for the people who aren't paying attention to dialogue or just dont care. And the coordinates kind o NEED to be there, no one would like to have to look for a quest NPC.
No one is forced to look at the book, its only if you missed something or dont want to pay attention

 

The NPCs actually do actually give decent directions, they tell you what direction it's in, and if you still can't figure it out, your quest book gives the exact location. I really don't see a need to change anything. If you don't want to look at your surroundings, you shouldn't be forced to, but if you really want to, then just do it, they don't need to change anything in the game

Plus it just sounds like you want the game to be more realistic
I made a thread on that the other day
I got shit on so hard

 

The npc does give a general direction

 

Personally, I would hate it if this was added. I'm not a big fan of most quests anyway (though there are a few that are pretty cool), but whenever I see a general direction in my questbook I instantly regret doing the quest. It takes more time than coordinates and is just excessive imo.

Yeah I'm lazy whatever, but it's just a pain in the ass to try and search around a place for a few minutes when I could simply go directly to my destination via coordinates.

and yes, I do have time to look at the builds around me and "admire my surroundings". It's not hard to hold w and look around at the same time.

 

shouldnt this be in feedback?

also gl giving directions in CotL lol

 

"he's by the gray rock and a tree"

 

I swear for a second you said "gay rock." I should get my eyes checked.

 

I mean it's possible. they can't tell us they AREN'T

 

cuz theres only 1 gray rock and 1 tree in CotL

 

Wait, having coordinates makes sense.