World Pseudo-elemental Powders | Created By Combining Two Powders | V 2.0 Complete!

Just to clarify, if I added an ice powder to a weapon/armor I would get +Water and +Ice defense and -Fire Defense, correct?

 

I never thought of those. I started thinking, but never got around to actually making specifics.

 

Okay, I didn't have enough time to finish it all yet, but I've added spoilers for Metal and Ice Powders to show the effects the Pseudo-elements will have on the weapons/armors. Let me know what you think; if the effects are too strong or weak, let me know so that I can update them (and make the rest) accordingly.

 

Thanks for the ideas! The current combinations, I think, are enough for now. People don't seem to like the implications of the ones I have already.
And I did toy with the ideas of "Light" and "Dark" but decided against them; they seemed more like forces than elements. However, I will consider them.

 

@ClamLord @JohnnyNubPotato
I redid much of how the powders work. Instead of having their own damage types, they buff the damage types that were used to create them. Additionally, I started adding the powder's effects on armors/weapons in terms of defense/offense, and I'd like to know if you think what I have so far is balanced.
What do you think?

 

For everyone that has read this thread already, I would like to let you know that I have finished the new powder effects!

 

No offense
But you do realize how broken this would be right?

 

Please explain, because I used the existing powders as a direct reference, so I can't see how they would be more than slightly broken.

 

1. Since it's only a single powder, it doesn't do what the other powders do where it takes neutral and converts it and then if you put another powder on it converts the remaining neutral damage while a these powders convert the TOTAL amount of neutral to BOTH elements before reducing the neutral damage.
2.

You basically just made it where every class with a spell spam build doesn't even need to worry about about health regeneration or lifesteal ever again. I understand you were trying to do what concentration did and all, but seriously. Even classes that don't have spell spammy ish builds like using a warrior with no intelligence benefits from this. They can literally uppercut and get 500-600 hp back at level 21. It'd be so easy to abuse this at low levels it's hilarious. And before you say "people shouldn't be using these powders at low level" oh trust me that people would just make t4 of these type of powders, slap them on their armour, and run around being immortal.
3.

So with something like Idk a spring build
I can arrow bomb once
and regen the exact mana I used back
ok then.
4. The armour +elemental defense isn't actually all that bad, but it's allowing people to much more easily patch their defenses by just spam powdering with these dual powders.
5.

I saw someone complain about this before. Dude if you set your agility to 147 like some people actually do in there builds you have a 96% chance to dodge, which renders you nearly immortal. Even with that trigger thing if you drink an agility pot as well if you stay below 20% hp you will never die with an 100% chance to dodge. Things like leichtrach makani or whatever it's called would become pretty op.
6.

This one isn't really op because it's essentially courage but thunder/air with a status effect, but can be a life saver. For example, this ability would stop mobs from being able to use flamethrower, which is pretty ridiculous imo as flamethrower does the highest DoT in the game.
7.

I'd like to ask for clarification on what this would do, because I'm interpreting it 2 different ways. One way is super op, the other one isn't as op. The first way I'm interpreting it is when it says 175% additional damage as "Ash" over 5 seconds means that they gradually take 175% of both thunder and fire damage of your weapon damage, like poison but stronger. This one is the one that isn't as op. The OTHER way I'm seeing it is all enemies hit take 175% +that 25% thunder and fire damage for every hit you do DURING 5 seconds. If that is the case, you basically made courage but on steroids.
8.

Going back to agility
Those things are technically touching you when you have dodge chance
More of a reason to possibly use fire+air or air+thunder or even just an agility pot. Also warriors with tank builds with fire damage can easily just sit on top of mobs and do damage to them.
9.

So in other words
You took rage and you just made it defensive and not stacking, essentially better than using earth to fix defenses
and you took thorns/reflection and applied it to fire damage with a guaranteed chance to do it
it's not like broken op but still needs a bit of patching
10.

Courage except defensive, but let's say you get hit by Cybel's meteor and it does 14k dmg. With this powder thingy though, you only take 9800 instead which can save people's life quite easily.
11.

I was debating this one in my head for a while, and I see it going two different ways. Like I said earlier, mobs are technically touching you when your agility procs. This being noted, if you get "hit" and your agility procs, then it also would calculate the 20% for basically using a toned down ice snake. Since this would most likely be used in air/water builds, people with high agility like 147 like I said earlier could dodge 4/5 of the things that hit them while 1/5 of those times would also go to the bootleg ice snake. If it only procs when you take damage however, all mobs with super fast attack speed that do low ish damage a hit would be dominated, a.k.a things like CoW. They'd be getting immobilized like crazy.
12.

Not gonna lie, this to me is the most balanced out of all of them. It's only increasing your air and water damage by a slight margin, and the slowness doesn't really matter if it's only 2 seconds because literally every class has a slowness effect (archer=bomb assassin=smoke warrior=bash mage=snake)
The main issue though is literally no one would use it compared to all the other possibilities.

Now, like I said earlier, the damage % conversion and the defense +elements isn't terrible and I actually like how you tried to balance out the conversions. The problem there is that in Wynn you usually want to go a specific type of elemental damage rather than trying to use two efficiently. Using one as a primary the other as a secondary is fine, but trying to use both at once usually ends up in not reaching the potential of other builds. The main issue lies with the powder specials being able to easily be abused, namely the "Wood" ones and "Wisdom". If I misunderstood any of what the powder specials should or could do please tell me, after all this is just my interpretation of them so I obviously could be wrong. Otherwise, the powder specials need to be tweaked quite a bit or

 

That can be easily remedied by nerfing the conversion amount a bit. I used the existing T1 and T2 powders as a reference for these, but the later tiers were all guesswork, so I may be able to fix them if they need it.

The other option is a 15% boost instead of 20% boost. The other thing about agility is that you generally have lower damage reduction, so if you do get hit by a strong attack, it may be enough to kill you if you are just above 20% health, unless you successfully dodge.

It's the 175% damage over the course of 5 seconds (meaning they take 35% of the damage every second for 5 seconds, adding up to 175%) So the first one.

Any recommendations besides getting rid of them? I don't see why these "issues" are an issue with the exception of the warriors sitting on mobs to kill them (that one is obvious).

Patching how? Change the chance? Change the amount?

So what, are powder abilities not allowed to save lives? The already existing ones already save lives too.
I don't see why taking reduced damage is an issue. If you had a small bit of health left, no amount of damage reduction will help.

Perhaps if the mob gets an immunity to the effect for a few seconds after getting it?

I was going for the ability to use 2 elements at once with the abilities covering the difference. You can say that many of these are overpowered if you have maxed out agility or dexterity, but they wouldn't be OP at all if players using them used 2 elements as intended (Like half agility half dexterity). With that being said, perhaps you would be much more okay with this idea if there were a minimum requirement for elements that REQUIRED you to mix 2 of them to use the effects.

 

Main issue was just the fact that you can easily abuse it. You don't necessarily have to fight in order to drop below the health needed to trigger it (negative health regeneration/jumping and taking fall damage repeatedly till reaching below the amount, etc). With a 15% boost it makes it 92% which isn't as ridiculous but if it calculates the amount you have if you use an agility pot as well it would most likely be 100%. Also I realized later that you could abuse this using rage at the same time.

Thank you for clarifying. Will the damage ignore defenses or will it also take defenses into account? If it doesn't, than it's essentially poison on steroids for thunder/fire builds (I can see it easily being abused on weapons like Black if this is the case).

Perhaps just nerfing damage slightly to counter the warriors just sitting on them. Also I'd recommend extending the time to trigger possibly to 2.5 or 3 seconds. This way people with agility can't just go sit on top of a mob for a couple seconds with really high agility and do a slight bit of damage.

Yeah just slightly though so it doesn't become underpowered.

I wouldn't say the existing ones save lives, I'd say they just make you do a ton of damage. The closest ones you get to saving lives are the air ones
and wind prison sucks so I mean
The problem is with this powder that if you trigger the special you will most likely never die for that period of time unless a mob does your entire health even with the damage reduction OR you take damage from a hit and then die the next hit. It makes warrior tanky builds essentially immortal for that period of time as well, and since it's fire, they will most likely use this powder for that reason. It can essentially allow warriors to not have to reach 114 defense in order to cap the defense as long as they use the special.

Yeah that would make it much less abusable, but don't make it too much of a delay (I'd say 2 seconds immunity after getting hit by it already at max).

As much as I would dislike a powder requiring you to have a certain amount of skill points it seems required because while people may not want to use the Ice powder weapon special for example, EVERYONE will try and use the armour special ones even if it doesn't fit there build (for example any spell builds with good mr would almost always use the wood one so they would never die, even if it's not water/earth but like thunder spell for example). Requirements however might accidentally promote rainbow slapping in order to get enough sp to use thunder with the "wood" special and it would be hard to implement powders that require skill points.
By the way I don't know if you skipped these on purpose or accident, but you didn't talk about what I said for the "wood" powder specials, but thank you for replying with all the others as it helped me understand the main goal of them more.

 

Sorry, I missed the wood abilities. I'll address them now.

Smaller health gain, or will I have to throw this out the window entirely? I'd also like to mention that 2 regular powders == 1 pseudo powder, so it may not be so easy.

Maybe with a cap of 50% of the mana used?

It will take defenses into account. It would have the upper hand against most other abilities if it were the only one that ignored elemental resistances.

Would it be better if it only lasted like 10 seconds after reaching and then had a cooldown of like 30 seconds before it could activate again?

I'll look at it again.

kk.

Just to make sure, you realize that this will calculate after the fire damage reduciton, right? Like if you have a 60% damage reduction for fire and take 5000 damage, you would take 5000 * 0.4 == 2000 and then that damage would be reduced more by the powder effect.

If you did realize what I meant, any recommendations for fixing it? Perhaps something like a cap to the amount of damage it can prevent?

So what I'm getting here is that I need to tweak the powders to prevent one from becoming meta enough to make everything else obsolete.

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I did some balancing to most of the powder effects. You may want to take a quick look and see what you think.

 

It'd be easy for high level people who loot run a lot (I used to). Also, yeah I think it needs to ditched because either way it is making spell spam ish builds negate any -lifesteal or negative hr.

Possibly yeah

Ok thanks for clairifcation

It would make it much less abusable with the cooldown yeah. Of course if you're careful enough you could still do a ton of earth damage and have dodge chance with this, but it would be a lot more dangerous to use all the time. The time might be a bit to high so maybe like 25 seconds should be fine.

If I understand what you're saying, yes I did understand. What I'm getting is it takes your defense FIRST and then applies damage reduction, which is still broken imo because then you would take 2000/3 instead of 5000/3 (660-700 vs. 1600-1700 damage taken) if this isn't what you mean though then no I don't realize what you're saying. The cap would be nice so the defense doesn't get to out of hand.

Yes because even though Curse and Courage are referred to as usually the best powder special on weapons, they all have their specific situations when they are better than the others including on armour (except wind prison people only have wind prison because they're putting air powders for increased air damage). We don't want them to become non-existent, but we want them to become balanced enough to where one won't overall always outweigh the others like for example something like "Vitality" currently will.

________________________________

I saw this after writing the comment above I'll look at the changes tomorrow because I gtg now

 

Actually, 1.5% damage reduction for every 5% of your health remaining means that (if you are at full health) you get 20*1.5% damage reduction; meaning damage you take is reduced by 30%. So you would be taking 2000 * 0.7 == 1400 damage instead of taking 2000 damage. And without the Fire defense, you get 5000 * 0.7 == 3500 damage instead of 5000 damage. However, after the nerfing I did, the maximum damage reduction is 20%, so you would be taking 1600 damage with that same fire defense and 4000 without that defense.

I'll start thinking of a new ability to replace Vitality.

 

I feel like the wood armor passive could be a bit too op. With a a spell spam build, or any with decent mana regen, you could heal yourself pretty easily

Also majority of the weapon abilities just seem like “extra damage” basically... Aether one is good, the rest not so much in my opinion.

Overall I like the concept.

 

The "Extra damage" Is the remnants of when these had their own damage types with new damage resistances/weaknesses. They converted a percent of certain damage you dealt into their own type of damage. I didn't change them too much when I simplified them.

 

I have remade both Wood abilities. Let me know what you think of them.

 

This is one of my favourite threads; detailed and original(I think)

 

Thank you! It means a lot to hear that because a lot of people had mixed feelings about this. I understand if they are not sure about it, but I like reading people's opinions on the idea, not on whether or not it is possible.