Game Design Gigantic Balance Shakeup. Too Far This Time.

500+ Item Changes??? ​

Was it REALLY necessary to change SO many items in one update??? This is substantially larger than any of the balancing changes before, and it's unnecessarily rocking everybody's builds builds and shopholder's sanity. A lot of these buffs and nerfs are so negligible they don't even matter, yet all the marketeers are gonna have to re-screenshot most of their stock to avoid "false advertising" claims. Deals in waiting with items more radically changed always causes turmoil, but will happen five-fold due to the hundreds of changes this time around. This isn't a balance change, we've thrown out the scales and replaced em with new and unfamiliar ones.

It is likely gonna cause a lot of update-bugged items such as what happened with the likes of Petrified Horror, Lunar Spine, Return to Ether, etc. that people will have to remove from their stocks, sell for cheaper, or have to reroll in order to sell them full-price, if at all anymore if reroll luck is bad.

In my eyes, this seems to fit a theme with multiple updates as of late from the staff team; taking things that may (or may not) be broken, fixing them behind mostly closed doors, (Seriously, where in the community feedback was the idea of nerfing the Anno ring by 1 whole regen point?) (Also great job totally ruining Contrast) (HOLY **** Discoverer's SO OP! Better edit its description...) with the end results going totally overboard with the team(s) intent. These balancing changes are happening almost monthly or bi-monthly now, shifting things to the point where both build-makers and the server economy barely have time to get comfortable with the current items stats.

Surely I can't be the only person who's getting triggered by all this? Feel free to say your mind on either side of the isle, but please be respectful. I am not trying to attack the staff team, show hate to the server, or twist any facts, I'm just speaking my mind about this state of affairs, that's what this part of the forums is for.

 

yknow,
a lot of this stuff was related to the health regen thing, cause now % regen effects raw regen as well as base.

 

Wow, didn't even think about all the shops being ruined... That's pretty harsh, but necessary I guess

 

This update had two major changes that required around a fifth of the items in the game to be rebalanced: The heal spell rework, and % health regen affecting raw health regen. Had we not done these changes, Katoa's Warmth would have been endgame and Boreal would have been the most overpowered item in the game, for example. They were necessary due to the mechanics of the game being shifted.

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and we intentionally tried to avoid this as much as possible, very few items got a drastic change such as this.

 

This

 

Y'all have a point about the health regen, but some of the changes are so super small it doesn't make much difference, and also a fair amount of these changes were NOT related to health regen, such as Contrast, Discoverer, (time for the lucky and rich to get even luckier and richer) Black, Battleground Dancer, Leictreach, Nepta, most of LEgendary Island accessory changes, and many more. Plus we don't all even understand the new health regen mechanics, so if some light would be shed on that it'd be nice.

Now, while I don't necessarily oppose all of these Health regen (and non health regen) related balance changes, surely people should have more to say in their reasoning than just the health regen part of the update. @Pokextreme @Torrential Tide @thot pocket

Also I woulda' liked it if we were given some kind of estimated date this would happen at so we could plan in advance.

 

Honestly, I don't see the real problem with these tweaks. They're just changing a few of the items to balance. As for shops and builds, their items are most likely just going to get a tiny tweak, and it probably won't effect them much.

 

most of the items you brought up were useless or borderline useless, or OP and needed a nerf. LI is an exception, but there was a real power imbalance there.

 

Black was one of the best items in the game, Contrast was useless and didn't live up to being a hive reward, Battleground Dancer was useless, Nepta was op, the legendary island accessories either were too good or too bad and there was no consistency between the elements, and Leictreach was just weird and bad.

Discoverer I have no clue, that one I wasn't really involved with >->

 

Most of those were just examples of things unrelated to health regen. Tbh Rarity and Shimmersight weren't that overpowered, and the Discoverer is such a huge buff ya have no idea. It's unjustifiable that it was buffed so much in the face of all the other things that got nerfed severely.

@Torrential Tide It's mostly less that I'm displeased with the reasoning of most of the changes, I'm moreso just astonished about the scope of it and how very few people could have anticipated this coming. Also TBH I think Contrast is a LOT worse now, coulda just buffed the stats if you felt it wasn't special, but 1.2k health and poison/walkspeed with no debuffs is really good. Now it's just a really generic defensive accessory, so I don't really agree with your reasoning that it wasn't worth being master hive, cuz now it's even less worth it.

Also if Black is one of the best items, why not let it be one of the best items? If not, at least don't wreck its worth by as much as it was. Every time the community makes an unexpected or surprisingly great use of an item, that doesn't mean the item team should just swipe it away, and that's slowly happening with every update. What I'm baffled about is why that's all defensible nerfing, but that discoverer somehow deserved to have all of its flaws stripped away into a superitem worth more than anything in the game now, for its owners and its sellers!

Somebody please tell me whose idea it was to buff Discoverer like that. It's a more OP alteration than half the balance update put together.

 

fully agree discoverer should have been nerfed if anything

resell galore

 

tbh both of those items are invaliding a huge number of other items. If you wanna talk about discoverer, talk to one of the members who actually pushed for it @Major_Lue @SilverMirror
Black shouldn't have been as strong as it was. it wasn't mythic or a hive item.I was actually mythic strength

 

To elaborate, Rarity is level 1 and was invalidating Pirate Queen's Ring of Rubies, Ring of Generosity, Fehu, Worship, Onion Ring, and Bronze Basic Ring.

It's level ONE.


Shimmersight was invalidating Morph-Stardust, Spectrum, and The Modulator.

 

And that's just the direct invalidations! There are more that are almost completely invalidated

 

Like Decoder Ring and Glimmer.

 

hi i was tagged

Discoverer is worse than you all think, for a single item with 200% and no penatly except 0 health thats like godly as fuck, but if you compare it to the viability of loot set, especially on loot runs, it was falling really short. I can expand on this if you really want but a quick imagination and comparison of normal loot set vs discoverer loot set vs discoverer with wtever on loot % and survivability/viability can already paint the picture

Contrast was not ruined, we gave it a new and better purpose, the old IDs were removed but u can check the new IDs in the Hive shop, u just need to exchange it thats all, there are probably people that used contrast for wt it was but in general new contrast is more usable

Item changes are to fix the balance of the game, we do not nerf something without a reason, something thats doing a better job than it was designed and designated then we need to tune it down, otherwise everyone will just use it instead of something else, in general thats the mindset. I understand major rework on items can cause pain and suffering, in general we try to avoid that unless there is a need to it.

Speaking of false advertising, 500+ item changes with 90% of those on health regen due to new game mechanics is pretty misleading

 

@Pokextreme Okay so maybe the point about Shimmersight is valid, since it is just a Rare tier item that beat out other rare or higher-level items besides it. But as for Rarity...

The point of rarity is that it IS level one and Legendary, and there's only a very slim picking of tier III and IV chests where it could possibly be found, the point of it was to be very hard to find and very valuable, and it's not like it is wrong that it's superior to the likes of a Unique ring like Fehu, Worship, and Glimmer. Ones like Ring of Generosity and Pirate's Ring are guaranteed upon questing, and have other aspects like stealing, hp regen, etc. so theyre not really completely invalidated. There are some items in all MMO's (and many example in Wynncraft) where some items are just better and rarer than others. That's the price of having more common items being inferior, but having higher accessibility and cheaper costs.

With your logic, Even with the nerf, Rarity at 13% still "invalidates" all the rings you mentioned except Fehu, as its Xp was nerfed and Loot Bonus was buffed to 17. But not like I thought rarity needed nerfing either way, nor am I giving the idea that it should be nerfed further. Cases like Shimmersight are more understandable, as it was of the same or less Rarity and level of other items that offered nothing more than Shimmersight. It's changes to Rarity, Discoverer, etc that I don't understand.


I'm not gonna dwell on just those two items, cuz as I said they're just two of multiple examples. I'm mostly centralizing on the issue that SO MANY things were changed at once without indication, and some of the individual reasons, or lack of reasons, for some of these changes bothers me.

EDIT:

I was quoting the 500+ item changes from what I saw on Wynndata when i checked this morning. A lot of items with health regen also had other nerfs/buffs too, (Not that I'm saying that wasn't needed in some cases) so saying that 90% of the 500 changes were solely motivated by health regen mechanics is misleading. If that's not along the line s you meant I'm not sure I'm understanding.
As for your use of "false advertising" I'm not sure what you're trying to say there, besides possibly that my thread is irrelevant?

 

For more exact calculations, according to Wynndata there are 355 items with health regen% total (positive and negative). So in reality roughly 168 items were actually balanced. Not counting all the hpr% items due to the change of course.

 

remember that we had to change hr raw too

 

Are there any items in specific you take issue with besides discoverer? Or is it mainly the sheer scale of the rebalances? This branch of the ct is relatively new so there's bound to be hundreds of changes considering we're fixing issues that have existed in the game for 2 years in a 10th of that time. Think of a lot of these changes as making the items work like they always should have instead of mindless nerfing. (Or buffing, with discoverer) Rarity never should have been so good, Shimmersight never should have had a mana buff, and some items like Battleground Dancer should never have been made with their original designs to begin with.