??? Quest Changes

So as many of you may know, the ??? quest was not originally planned to be a quest, but as some kind of huge Easter egg, however, there was not a system in place to make it anything other than a quest. Now there is a system.

With discoveries, you can have area's that you can't enter until you have the other parts of the discovery (like the big discovery on Wynn plains and the tower discoveries). This means that ??? can now be removed as a quest (yay!) and become a huge discovery.

This would not only let it be how it was intended to be (and make more sense as it's clearly not a "quest" by any means), but it would also mean that if they revamped it, they could remove the part that needs 4 people (this last part is a personal preference, having 4 people co-ordinated for it is utterly awful).

Also, it is possible to get the same xp (but maybe more spread out?) and items from it if were a discovery, so nothing would be lost through this.

 

hmm i'm not even too sure about what to think about that
It seems from what you say that its how it originally was planned, but removing it from quest... idk, seems weird to me

 

Simply put, no. Where would you get the Cosmic gear? Yes, maybe it'd make more sense for it to be one. But why?

Would you get the Cosmic gear from a Merchant? No. Also, if they did that, it'd mean a nerf in XP reward.

It'd also mean you could stockpile on items and just bypass the ENTIRE Lab N section, because it would simply not be needed. It'd be as simple and boring as the original ??? Quest.

 

It'd make more sense because ??? is based around discovering these secrets and lore, no-one gives you a quest, nor is it quest like.

You can get items from discoveries.

No idea where you've gotten this idea from, they CT can give as much XP as they like, it's not limited if it's a discovery.

What?! That's a current exploit, if it was done as a discovery, then EVERY part would have to be visited first to allow the player through, they couldn't just stockpile the feather or whatever it is.

 

They balance the XP for discoveries differently, they aren't quests, so they don't give as much as quests.

Also, what discovery gives you an item upon discovering? I haven't seen any that give you an item, other than one, however I haven't seen them give Emeralds, or full armor sets.

Also, if they did go down the merchant route, then all IDs would be locked, which would make every set the same, and none unique.

 

They can just make it give more xp, and considering that it's an Easter egg, it doesn't really deserve the xp it currently gives anyway.
Also, you just admitted to the fact that they can give items, as it has been done, plus they can give multiple items, it's not like the coding limits them to one item given per discovery, plus on top of that, they're recoding it all anyway so they can do more of what they want.

Also, I didn't mention merchants, because they would be an awful idea.

 

The necklace chamber discovery gives you the necklace of 1kstorms when completed, so giving a single item is definitely possible, I don't know about getting 5 items though(cosmic set and altum spatium)

 

However, the item that was given in a discovery was one item, not five.

And while it could work as a Discovery, maybe. The fact is it just works and fits better as a quest.

And Discoveries don't give enough XP to level you up, unless you're close to a Level up, or you're low level. To give one discovery that much XP, especially when it's not...

Update spoilers for those who aren't in the Hero Beta:

Spoiler: Update spoilers

an Ultimate discovery, why would they ever give a discovery so much XP? That's obsurd, you'd be demanding any ultimate discoveries in Gavel, would give you MORE than all the quests in the area and MORE than a discovery that used to be a quest.

 

dude, what the heck. there is no flipping limit on how much XP you can get from a discovery at all bar the computer's limit, and it IS an ultimate discovery at the final stage from what I can tell. I don't get what you're saying.
and seriously I'm sure they can make discoveries give more than one item. cmon.

 

And another issue, is that if they gave the gear via discovery reward, you'd get gear that would not have the quest requirement for it, and it's a set that is arguably really quite broken, why would you ever have to do the discovery again? It'd be worthless after the first run, because you have the armor, and you can use it on all classes, no restrictions.

 

that's a much better argument, however considering people almost unanimously hate repeating the quest, and this game is meant to be fun, it's probably for the best that they're not made to do it again. I also don't think it's broken at all - things which alleviate grinding should generally be encouraged.

 

This is the only point that you have made which has any relevance, and I'll admit that it would be an issue to some extent, however, if it were untradable, and had a high level requirement, then it would stop huge amounts of abuse.

 

This if it is possible discussion is kind of stupid. The code team can fix it.

I just want to say that lab N should not be removed! It is difficult and needs a lot of cooperation and great leadership to pull off and I can't tell you how many of my wynncraft friends I met by doing lab N. It is a masterpiece of design.

I have done the quest 5 times and helped out a few more. It is not that I have only once.

 

Discoveries can't give multiple items, at least, currently.

Well, kind of. We have three categories of discoveries, World, Territorial, and Secret, and none of these are normally supposed to give as much experience as a whole quest.

Refer to my above answers, there's a curve we follow with xp rewards and as far as I know a discovery can only give one item reward currently.

The armour has a quest requirement because it's so good. If we removed the quest requirement, we would have to nerf its identifications by a long shot, because the length and difficulty of the quest is part of what justifies the cosmic set being so useful. A level requirement can only do so much: If we make it higher level, then people will still use it to grind at those levels, only do the quest once and just trade the same set between classes with no restrictions, which is not intended. We can't make items untradeable between classes currently, so the quest requirement is a work around for that. Similarly, we can't add any new ids or change the level requirement or anything without the old versions of the set retaining the old stats, which brings up a whole 'nother myriad of problems.

Blocking areas within one discovery isn't a thing we can do as far as I know, but we can lock regions in one discovery by requiring the completion of another (or multiple) discoveries. If ??? were to become a discovery, it would actually have to be a series of discoveries you get one after the other just to prevent sequence breaking.

If I'm being honest here, ??? doesn't exactly fit the bill of being a quest.
The issue is it's not really a discovery either, it's something completely different and unique that no other content is at all similar to. We could make a new system specifically to fit the full intentions of this "quest" but that would be a lot of extra work for something really quite small, and a quest is simply a better fit with better features for what it's supposed to be than a discovery is.

Also,

This is not an Ultimate Discovery at all.

 

I bet you they can give item rewards for discoveries. Also, they can make Lab N and everything else their own discoveries, and make the ultimate discovery require those ones. Just like the master discovery in Ragni Plains

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Shouldnt be too hard to change tho

 

Doesn't necklace of a thousand storms do this?

 

Wait, you're saying it doesnt make sense that discovering a modern themed lab in a midieval-fantasy themed game isn't a literal discovery? By all means it fits what a discovery is.

 

Sorry, I meant feature-wise. Quests have a lot more mechanics we have at our disposal, so it functionally works better for ???.
Name wise, by all means, discovery wins. The quest literally is a "discovery," but not a discovery. (That's confusing!)

 

Theoretically it could be a discovery, but I don't think it should be. Discoveries are meant to just be cool things that you find on your own naturally, they're meant to be things you can figure out on your own. ??? is designed to be a bit unfair, requiring you to do crazy things we don't normally ask of you, things so crazy hard if you aren't looking at a guide then you can't figure it all out on your own. It's better that you know it exists by signaling it in your quest book, so you can ask people "what do I have to do to beat this quest?". Even if they're both secrets, ??? is very different from discoveries.

 

I love doing ???
Please dont