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Game Design Item Balance, Part 2: Grillface

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Cruuk, Sep 18, 2017.

?

What item do you want next?

  1. Pandemonium

    15 vote(s)
    53.6%
  2. Phoenix Wing

    11 vote(s)
    39.3%
  3. Other

    2 vote(s)
    7.1%
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  1. Cruuk

    Cruuk yopyop HERO

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    I've never been the figurehead of any item balancing thread before, so for the love of FUCK please forgive me if I fuck shit up.
    Introduction
    I'm stealing your thread format Gigavern and you can't do a damn thing about it. Item Balances is a series of threads in the Feedback Section, highlighting endgame items that absolutely require buffs. These items are hardly ever used (in the case of some, almost never used). A prime example is Grillface. With help from @LarzLapiz , @Pokextreme , @Gigavern (I think), and someone I probably forgot about, We've discussed the changes that would be ideal for Grillface.

    Statement of the Problem:
    • Failure to fill a niche
    Grillface's biggest problem is that whatever it does, another item is likely already doing it, but better, the biggest culprits include Centipede and Anima-Infused Helmet. The former being overall being a better melee helmet, and the latter being Anima-Infused Helmet. Even for a Fire/Air helmet it's pretty mediocre. If it needs to fill a niche, it needs to fill the niche of offensive-based Fire/Air helmets if it wants to see any viability in the near future.
    • Main element is Fire but it's better for Air
    Despite Grillface being a Fire/Air helmet, the more "primary" element is Fire, at least, that's what the item wants you to believe, after some discussion with my fellow comrades mentioned above, as far as I can tell, Grillface appears to have better Synergy with Air items like Air Sanctuary (Or hell, even Boreal-Patterned Aegis as mentioned by someone) with the former being Grillface's biggest driving factor towards Air, however, it's Defense requirement of 50 holds it back from being an Air/Fire item instead of what it currently is.
    Before you show me a build that claims that Grillface is better for Fire, Is Grillface really the best helmet for that build? How would the build perform with another helmet like say, Heroism?
    (Of course, this is the way I see it, I could be wrong, and even then, it should still be a Fire/Air helmet, but with a bit of a role reversal, more on that in a bit)
    • Crippling Water Defense
    To be honest this isn't much of a huge problem to me and a few other people, though I feel like it should still be acknowledged anyway.


    Proposal to buff Grillface
    The very professionally well made graph probably depicts our somewhat ideal changes for Grillface.
    upload_2017-9-19_14-5-50.png

    Air/Fire Switch:
    As mentioned earlier, Grillface appears to overall have better synergy with Air items as opposed to Fire items, which is why our proposed changes seek to completely switch the primary element of Grillface, from the Agility/Defense IDs, to the defenses, and the requirements.
    I understand that the last change is controversial, but before you say anything, think about this: Do you know anyone who actually uses Grillface in a build? Can that build be improved upon by using a better helmet? Will anyone actually suffer from this skill point requirement swap?
    I think this change will overall be more of a compliment than a detriment to Grillface.
    And before you say anything, I think it'll still fit with the name/lore, just imagine current Grillface's "lore", but more steamier, were only switching the elemental roles here, were not removing the Fire part of Grillface, there's a difference.

    Damage Buff(s):
    Because Grillface should fill the niche of an offensive Fire/Air Helmet, it should gain a considerable buff in Fire/Air damage, up to 52% (average is 40%, lowest is 12%?) so that it actually is pretty powerful in it's own right when compared to other offensive-based helmets.
    And of course, to make up for this, the Water damage should be nerfed to a pretty high negative value. (Doesn't have to be exactly -150%, I'm kind of shit at negative ID calculations)

    Walk Speed:
    Ok, yeah, even this one is really iffy to me, I only included it because it was something that was brought up while discussing Grillface buffs.
    Yes, I know this is currently 100% impossible without creating "splinters", personally, I think this one would be better for the code refactor if the Walk Speed proposal is even considered at all. Of course, I shouldn't just end this section without mentioning that someone did state that unlike Concentration, this second "iteration" of Grillface will overall be better, and everyone will want to re-ID their Grillface's for the new ID. Whether you agree or disagree with this statement, and while I'm sort of in the latter (No hurt plz), it shouldn't go without saying.

    Conclusion
    Grillface has high potential to be a good offensive Air/Fire helmet, but currently, it's sort of like a jack-of-all-trades, but bad.

    Please, do it for him.

    EDIT: Nerfed the damage buffs a bit
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  2. Gigavern

    Gigavern Giant Fern VIP+

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    Maybe further highlight the synergy with Air Sanctuary, which ultimately is the driving factor towards Air.
     
    LarzLapiz likes this.
  3. Chigo_

    Chigo_ wtf is a chigo QA

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    I should make one of these for all the mythics, they all need buffs like really badly. @Gigavern
     
  4. Pokextreme

    Pokextreme Avos Air Archer HERO

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    Meh. We have plenty of mythic balance threads. Not much more needs to be said.

    It would also be hard to go to this level of detail on every mythic
     
  5. Cruuk

    Cruuk yopyop HERO

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    Oh yeah, another thing, the power buff to Grillface is pretty high, if enough people want it lowered and if it's fine with the other people who worked on the Grillface proposal, I can lower the max to 39-40% or so (Average= 30/31?)

    Well, I tried
     
    Hephaestus likes this.
  6. Chigo_

    Chigo_ wtf is a chigo QA

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    it was a joke because mythic's trigger gigavern.
     
  7. Selvut283

    Selvut283 Circadian rhythm stuck on Tokyo time ♪ Music GM

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    Holy fuck. That's an overpowered as hell proposal. Most offensively-boosting items can hardly get 40% TOPS, in ONE aspect!
     
  8. Cruuk

    Cruuk yopyop HERO

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    It was an idea that was proposed by someone, and we just sort of stuck with it.

    Yeah, I think it's time to lower it to like, 30-40 max?

    EDIT: Ok I changed it
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
    Hephaestus likes this.
  9. Hephaestus

    Hephaestus Hypothetical Build Maker | Avos Air Arceus VIP+

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    That's worse than it is currently, lmao
     
    Gigavern, Flare2B and Cruuk like this.
  10. Flare2B

    Flare2B What if? VIP+

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    Oh. WynnData is down, so I could not check. Sorry.
     
  11. e!

    e! ⁣e HERO

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    I think the health regen% need a buff, it in itself would buff a ton of items, Amulet of Rejuvenation, Grillface, all mythic boots, heck even pure (I still believe it was supposed to be a wand for a tanky build because no matter what build you use it will not cripple pure's damage as much as any other item). Perhaps making it more powerful every time you level up, like with health
     
  12. Cruuk

    Cruuk yopyop HERO

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    Oh boy, 4 threads to keep track of now, fun.

    Bump
     
  13. e!

    e! ⁣e HERO

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    Bump10char
     
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  14. Cruuk

    Cruuk yopyop HERO

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    ^^^
     
  15. e!

    e! ⁣e HERO

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    Remember when staff used to pay attention to the feedback section?
     
    Dr Zed and Tekenen like this.
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