World Warrior Charge Surfing Implementation

this is probably a REALLY fucking controversial topic to discuss in the wynn community, so don't dick on people's opinions - respect them
thanks

"Why Warrior Charge Surfing Should Be A Thing"
my stance on skill-based movement in wynn

disclaimer: this thread and its contents are very opinionated
this thread is also written like an informal argumentative essay so it's probably a bit unstructured

Contents
I. Introduction
II. Pros
III. Counterbalancing
IV. Counterarguments and Rebuttals
V. Conclusion
​

I. Introduction

Skill based movement has rarely been seen in modern games today. However, it has been seen in games such as Counter-Strike: Source in the form of "bunnyhopping" (otherwise known as bhopping) and Team Fortress 2 with rocket and stickybomb jumping. Skill based movement greatly increases the skill ceiling in the games which it is present in and creates interesting combat mechanics that can be used to a skilled player's advantage.

Wynncraft used to have some form of skill-based movement, known as "warrior charge surfing." This type of movement originated from a bug in the game (coincidentally, bunnyhopping and rocket jumping also originated from bugs too). It allowed you to extend your charge as Warrior by timing your jumps almost frame-perfect, sort of like bunnyhopping.

For those who don't know what it looked like, here's an excerpt from IgbarVonSquid's "1.13 in a Nutshell" video (volume warning):

(starts at 8:25 because xenforo cant embed starting times on youtube for some fucking reason)

Since then, I believe that the bug has been fixed, to an extent. However, the implementation of some sort of skill based movement into Wynncraft could greatly increase Wynn's PvP skill ceiling and create much more interesting combat.

II. Pros

No, I don't mean "pros" as in "professionals" here. I mean "pros" as in the argumentative form of "pros."

Like I've said in the intro, turning warrior charge surfing from a bug to a feature would increase the skill ceiling of Wynn's PvP, as Warrior could get a new "hit-and-run" playstyle or have a brand new playstyle that involves high mobility but very low defense to speed across the entire battlefield to surprise and ambush players. In addition to that, having some form of skill based movement would make battles with Warriors be much more interesting to watch.

Furthermore, I feel like Warrior's Charge spell is too similar to Mage's Teleport spell. They both are focused on horizontal movement and can deal damage by passing through enemies or hitting enemies. Charge is not instant and takes a bit of time to travel to the intended destination, while Teleport is instant. In terms of movement, time to destination does not matter though. A new mechanic for Warrior's Charge would make it a bit more unique.

Higher mobility for Warrior could make Warrior stronger in medium to long range combat situations. Assassin, the only other melee class, depends on him being able to get up close to his or her target to function effectively. Assassin has Vanish in order to put himself or herself in a better position for combat while staying unnoticed, as well as Smoke Bomb for medium range damage. Warrior does have Charge to approach enemies, which can be quite effective, but his strongest spell, Uppercut, can eat up a lot of mana, meaning the user will probably not have enough mana once he or she has successfully approached the enemy to use Uppercut. War Scream is generally an unreliable source of long-range damage, as the projectile is extremely slow and does not do a lot of damage. Charge surfing would make the Warrior more unpredictable as the user approaches his or her target, as well as more mobile and more of a threat at longer ranges.

III. Counterbalancing

If charge surfing was added exactly in the state that it was in around 1.13, it would be extremely overpowered and inconsistent. There are a few ideas that I propose to balance it out.

a. Make the initial charge happen faster and/or increase its distance, as well as making all charges afterward have less distance/speed.
This would solve the problem of "Why use individual charges when you could just learn how to charge surf?" This makes individual charges still effective for players who cannot charge surf.

b. Make players take damage after the second or third surf, to prevent infinite surfing and to give players a choice between normal charges or charge surfing.
With this, players basically have a choice: "Do I spend my mana on charging, or my health on charge surfing?" It should be a fair tradeoff if balanced correctly.
The damage should also ramp up the more surfs are performed.
Damage should be done in percentages to discourage players making high-HP builds to mitigate most of the damage taken when surfing, as well as preventing high mobility and tanky builds (which isn't a good combination at all).

c. Prevent players with low walk speed to charge surf, to an extent.
Lower walk speed builds should decrease the speed and distance of charge surfs, until about -200% walk speed where the player cannot charge surf anymore. This prevents Statue/other high HP items from being overpowered for high skill players.

IV. Counterarguments and Rebuttals

I know a lot of people are going to point out inherent flaws with this suggestion, so I've prepared a list of counterarguments and my rebuttals to said arguments.

It's going to be too inconsistent with ping variances!
I would suggest to add a bit of leniency to the charge surf, maybe about 2-3 ms. It shouldn't be too lenient to distinguish a rookie to a skilled and veteran charge surfer. I don't think it's possible to do the jump check client-side without the addition of client mods.

Scripters and cheaters are going to ruin everything!
Health WILL drain while charge surfing, so there will be an eventual cap on the charge surfs. If the timing for charge surfing is strict enough, it should be easy to tell a cheater/scripter apart from a skilled player.

It makes Mage's Teleport bad and obsolete! Why would I have to deal with Mage's lower mobility when I could just play Warrior and learn how to charge surf?
Mage will still have more vertical mobility than Warrior. Think of Teleport as sort of a middle ground between Archer's Escape and Warrior's Charge, with decent vertical and horizontal mobility. I do think that Mage's Teleport should get some sort of unique mechanic if charge surfing is implemented officially into the game, though, to keep it from being just a bland movement spell, sort of like what the devs did with Archer's Escape.

Mana will become obsolete for skilled players! You could just regenerate the mana that you used for the initial charge while surfing!
Simple solution: Disable mana regeneration while surfing. If the devs want to go even farther, make additional mana drain during the surf, sort of like Assassin's Vanish.

You can just hold space for "le insta-win!"
If I remember correctly, holding space doesn't give you a frame perfect jump every time. I think there's a bit of a delay between hitting the ground and jumping again when holding space.
If I'm wrong though, bind the button to surf again to a different key. I'd suggest the switch to offhand key if Wynn fully ports to 1.9.

V. Conclusion

I've stated all of my arguments above for you to determine if you think warrior charge surfing should be in the game or not. I believe that adding warrior charge surfing would greatly increase the skill ceiling of the game, as long as precautions and balance changes are made to prevent Warrior from being the most overpowered class in the game.

As for the comments, try to keep it civilized. I know this is probably a really controversial topic, and I'm looking for you to discuss what you think about the situation. Remember, this is only a suggestion and my opinion. You have the right to have your own opinion, and I will try to respect that.

Thanks for reading.

-sorae

 

i agrees 10char

 

+1 now i need to get my knight up then

 

Fixed it for you
Warrior is already pretty strong, so if this would be added there would need to be good counter balancing but you already gave some suggestions for that so I guess I don't have to. Otherwise really good suggestion!

 

How is bhopping in Minecraft even possible? Is it just really hard to do, or is it purely exclusive to cheat clients?

 

I'm pretty sure minecraft bhopping consists of certain angles and povs you move in, and placing blocks as you jump. You move smoothly too, and stay looking at the same height that you started hopping from.

 

Hacks, unless you're really good at aiming or go underground, the time you spent on that round is lost. And this is uhc so that time probably varies from like 10 minutes to several hours(not in hypixel but maybe on badlion or other uhc servers). Go in a hypixel uhc and you'll find at least one bhopper who kills like 10 people and then gets banned.

 

bump
make charge surfing great again

 

reviving

why is there almost no discussion on this what

 

Agree except, balancing warrior is already in the Meta rn almost higher Han mage

 

Because we all like surfing :O