Game Design Me Complaining About Stuff, Today: Dungeons

So I normaly complain about stuff in the shoutbox but I thought: ``Hey, isn't there a whole section for esentialy just complaining about stuff? I shoud probably go there,´´.

So yeah, here are my complains with the new dungeon System:

1. GRINDING, I know that the items are powerfull, and you're supposed to work for them, but come on! I had to do the ice barrows dungeon 20 freaking times for the 2 items I wanted, and I'm not saying this just because ``oh you should nerf that, buff that and make that easier so that I don't have to work for anything!´´, I'm saying that because it's a real game design flaw, doing the same sequence of Events over and over again without Alteration isn't fun! It isn't even challenging because you'll have memorized all the components after the 3rd go and once you know exactly what you Need to do and know that you're capable of doing it it isn't an interesting challenge anymore, it's just mindless Repetition! Do you really think it's gonna be a intense and interesting struggle with life-or-death situatuons after the Player has done it 19 times already? NO! IT'S JUST WASTING ONE'S TIME! I am sure there must be a better way of making the Player work for the really good dungeon-items than just wasting their time. I would rather do a really, REALLY difiicult dungeon once than have to do a mildly-difficoult one 20 freaking times! But of Course that's assuming it doesn't have the next issue I have with the dungeons in wynncraft:

2.UNFAIRNESS. This can come in different forms, either one part of the dungeon is too hard because of bad game-design decisions or through bad conveyance to the Player. Now, I haven't done every dungeon in wynncraft (in fact I have only done 2) so tell me if this is only a Problem in theese 2, and if it's not, what sections are unfair in other dungeons (in your opinion). Here are the Things I mean by that:
The room with the 9000 snow block enemies in the ice barrows dungeon, nvm I was a noob and neverr used arrow shield ._____________________.
The boat Shooting section in Galon's graveyard nvm this too idk what I was doing wrong before so I'm gonna blame it on glithces because that's totally what happened and not me sucking.
The Boss of Galeon's graveyard (It's also an alright idea but just the fact that the projectiles travel at 500 000 miles an hour makes it a lot worse since it's almost impossible to dodge and even if you could, you surely can't while Standing still in order to activate the cannons. So what do you do? Tank it and drink potions. That should never be the strat for an enemy, let alone a boss! I mean you still have to Keep some distance but it's pretty much just stand on a pressure plate, drink a potion, kill some minions if the cannonbyll didn't and then repeat! I first thought that you had to line him up for the canonball to hit, but nope, that would be to interesting! And looking back that would've been a much better boss! He chases after you at a considerable Speed (maybe a couple of spells to make it more challenging), you have to Lure him over to the Canons, step on the pressure plate (only step for a Moment, but it would take a while until the Canon actually fired) and then you had to line him up so that he stands directly in front of the Canon at exactly the right time. Now, I'm no game designer, I don't want to pretend like I know the perfect solution and that my idea is better than anyone else's, but I think having to actually time up the cannon Shooting with him running after you would make a considerably more fun challenge than just Standing on a pressure plate while letting him hit you. But as said I'm no game designer so I could be COMPLETELY wrong.)

3. THE KEY GUARDIANS. Now the key Guardians are a cool concept, mush better than the old key System, but they also bring new flaws with them, mainly: What if you don't want to fight them? Well then you're screwed becasue they won't let you alone until you die. And because they're a lot stronger than the usual Mobs around that Region you'll probably die. I recently started a no-que, no-dungeon warrior playthrough (so basiacly just grinding Mobs) and when I came to Nemract, I died once to the ormal enemies, and around 5 times to the freaking key Guardians! I mean they're supposed to guard the dungeon key, why do they attack someon who is no threat to them? And normaly you can outrun them, but in this peticular case the underworld crypt Guardian attacked me, and he basiacly runs around all over the place and sometimes jumps near you, causing high AOE damage and first of all that enemy is annoying af to try and kill as a Close-range class and also he is much stronger than any other mob in that Region! Now I like the way that key Guardians Switch combat up by being a mini-boss in the middle of those easy enemies, but when they're 10 times more powerfull than the usual Moby, are incredibly persistant in killing you and yield no actual reward if you don't want to do that perticular dungeon, it just seems like a not fun enemy to fight, and when it's not not fun why put it in a game? The whole pourpuse of games is to entartain you and be fun after all. Now you couls say: ``Well then tell me how would you do it better? Hmm?´´ and I would, if they hadn't already done it. Case-in-Point: The Nii Guardians (they drop nii runes which, when combined with broken dungeon keys (they are dropped from stronger versions of the key guardains), will make corrupted dungeon keys. They don't have any of the Problems I have with the normal key Guardians. first of all: you have to attack them first for them to attack you, meaning that if you're just exploring or doing a quest they won't bother you and waste all of your potions. Also, there are 4 possible nii Guardians which can spawn, corresponding to the 4 classes you can Play as. And you don't know what it's going to be until you attack them, meaning that they put in even more variety than normal key Guardians! And third of all, the nii runes they drop can be usefull for more than one dungeon. They are used to make the keys for all the dungeons and even if you have done all of the corrupted dungeons, they're worth keeping for when they release more of the corrupted dungeons. And they only take up 1 spot, meaning that you can also Keep them for other playthroughs or if you want to revisit a dungeon without wasting a row of your bank space.

That's all for now, expect more complaining form me soon (I always find something to complain about, you'll see)
But at the end we should all remember that wynncraft is essentialy a free game, a Piece of interactive art only made possible because the Content Team works hard at making it the best experience it can be without even knowing if their work will pay out, and only relying on the generosity of their Players. There is a lot you can expect from an MMO RPG, but being free isn't one of them, and we should be thankfull that we get such a wonderfull game (even though it has flaws) without needing to pay for it. I mean there way worse MMO RPG's out there with way more flaws which require you to pay if you want to Play it.

Also thanks to everyone who gave Feedback, thanks to you I realized that the section with the ice blocks was only so difficult because I allways Forget that arrow shield is a Thing.

 

lol have fun with the corrupted dungeons

 

....key guardians.....
there susposed to be strong for lower levels....
Once you reach level 70+ there all weak
If you make them like Nii guardians it will be for too easy to kill them

A assassin can just multihit them over to a spot in the map where they can just smoke bomb them and they die....

A Mage can get a meteor to deal insane damage to them instantly

A warrior can uppercut charge and bash them continuously and bam there dead

A archer can just snipe them from a distance with spells for insult to injury

If you need to run

A Mage can spam TPs

A warrior can easily charge

A archer can spam escape

A assassin can vanish and run

 

Btw (i am not really going to say something about your dungeon criticism rn because i am a bit tired buuuuuut) idk you meant what i thought you did.. i am pretty sure the content team doesnt get money xD so technically for them all their payment is well having fun together and being proud about what they did and that we like it xD just saying x) wynncraft wouldnt work without its hardworking slaves x))

 

Well I'm not saying they should be the same attack types as the nii guardians, or that they should be easier. I'm just saying that it would be good if you had to attack them first before they attack you, since first if all they're supposed to be Guardians, and it's not really Logical for a Guardian of something to attack something that doesn't want to fight and through that bring the Thing it's protecting in danger. Also most Guardians you can run away from but some move around really fast (Infested pit) or can jump towards you (Underworld crypt/udergrowth ruins) making it really hard to outrun them (this could just me being terrible at the game tho). Also as you said at lvl 70 they're easy but when you're the Level that area is made for they can kill you pretty easily (at least some can) and they also have quite a lot of health.

Well now they have even more of my respect.

But I'll still complain about every Little Thing.
Because potatoes.
and because I can
and because I want wynncraft to become a better game
but mainly because potatoes

ok bye

 

ofc giving feedback is good and right to do but idk just reading the whole thing your tone just put me off completely XD maybe i am a bit touchy there but you know... if i was them i would prefer a different tone XD

 

Gud luck getting to 101 as well :D
won't be painful
AT ALL.
[unless u used da party&totems glitch *COUGH*COUGH* me and uhhh........ not saying]

 

Well you have probably been doing it wrong then xD. I forgot how exactly I did it since it was forever ago but anyways. You watch the cannon balls and block them with your own. Then you just spam your cannons until you win.

 

Well the key guardians are suppose to be challenging, that's kinda the point. And a lot of your complaints are the type to be answered with git gud.

 

Yea I probably am bit I have no idea what I'm supposed to do. I read through all of the tips you get when you fail and it still doesn't help. Is there a specific strategy? Are you supposed to do it in a specific order? I tried launching them as quickly as I could but the other ship always shot faster than me, and out of all 4 cannons, so idk if I'm just being stupid for not figuring it out but I have no idea how it's even supposed to be possible. Please tell how it's supposed to be done and if it's actually really simple I'll take back my Argument about it being unfair, but as of now it still stands.

Sorry if I sounded mean but I get Kind of salty when thinking about dungeons.

It isn't a Problem that they're hard to kill(although in the case of the jumpy one's it kind of is because if you're a warrior with low walk Speed you can't really attack them well and they can hunt you down and kill you with their AOE Explosion attack when they land, this could just be me sucking at the game but I think that's really unfair) but that there isn't a good reason to kill them if you don't want to do that dungeon but you don't have a choice and It's just the fact that they're a lot stronger than anything else you'll find in that area and they can be incredibly hard to shake off that makes them really anoying. Actually I think that combat would be much more interesting if there were more stronger mini-boss Kind of enemies scatered around the land, but because they're so scarse you don't account for them and if you go into an area underleveled thinking you can tackle it because you can easily kill the normal Mobs the dungeon key Guardians can easily catch you by suprise and destroy you. What I'm trying to say is: Them being hard isn't the issue, it's the fact that they're much stronger than the Mobs in that area but also really rare meaning that they create a difficoulty incraese without any warning or build-up > difficoulty spike.

Sorry if you don't like reading a whole pharagraph of text to see what I mean, I tend to ramble when I start writing.

Essentialy, in a normal turn based RPG, if you had an area, with lvl 15 Mobs and lvl 15 quests, would you put an lvl 30 enemy there which chases after and has enough health and phases to be mini-boss even at lvl 30? No, you don't, because the Player probably isn't ready for such a Kind of challenge. Now, if there were lots of such enemies, the Player would know that they're not at a high enough Level to go there and wouldn't even try. That's also a difficoulty spike, but one the Player can understand because they know that they're too low Level for that area. A similar Thing happens when you go to fight a boss, you know before it's gonna be more difficoult than the normal enemies because it's a boss, and that's how bosses work. But if you just put a miniboss in the middle of a field, it would come from nowhere, the Player wouldn't know what to do and it would create an allround unpleasant experience.

That's enough of my rambling for now, I hope I didn't get TOO salty (but of Course I did).

 

You just shoot all of the cannons from the left to the right. Then rinse and repeat :D
(So yeah very simple xD)

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As for the argument of that boss...My strategy for this boss was to use my knock back spells and shooting the cannons when the boss gets close enough. Pretty simple for me at least XD. I get the factor of it not being interesting however how is this in the unfairness section?

 

You could of just said "make the dungeon guardians neutral rather then hostile, it would make sense(I agree with you)

 

For the Thing with the boat shootin section, I tried that and it would never work for me, the other ship would always fire faster than me an I'd fail. I'll try again soo and I'll correct myself if it really is that simple but I'm pretty sure it's not, but I could just have done it too slowly.

And I'm not saying it's unfair because it's boring but because I don't see a way to dodge the projectiles he shoots at you and this also could be me being stupid but the projectiles fly so fast I have no idea hoe you're supposed to dodge it. Please tell me if I'm just being stupid.

I probably should have, but I just like to ramble on and on and on and on and on and on....
and on...

 

I tested that game a lot and I can assure you, if you do it right you can always counter their bullets. You probably just didn't get the pattern right. It is always possible.

 

Yea I tried it again recently and it was really easy, I'm not sure what was Happening the first time I tried it but no matter how fast I launched the cannons they would always fire faster and the 2nd wave would hit me before I could reload, idk if I was just being slow or if it was a glitch but now it semms to work. Also once again this might have just been me being very stupid but as far as I can remember they shot out of all 4 cannons at the same time so idk what you mean with patttern. If it happens again I'll make a screenshot of it.

 

friccin wall of text

tl;dr

 

Hey, it's not my Problem that some parts in dungeons are hard, it's when they're hard for stupid reasons. The boss if ice barrows is also very challenging but also fair and enjoyable and I don't have a Problem with it. It's when a boss launches undodgable projectiles and the General strategy is just tank it and stand on a couple of Switches that I get salty.

 

Hmmm? ._. Idk how to answer to that lol

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The reason why thats the case is because (pretty sure) they want some variation in the boss fight. It should not be like oki hey man just go spam your spells against this guy and you win the dungeon. Rather this way every dungeon is at least to an extent unique which means that due to the fact that they are all different it does not feel like repeating another dungeon right now but just this individual one.

 

I have a suggestion for you.
Do non-slaughter quests if you don't have that PERFECT WEAPON until you get to a level where that weapon is useless.

 

So this entire thread is basically a rant about how hard dungeons are?

I have a suggestion for you: Try harder.