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Gameplay The New Soul Point System Is Bullshit, Let's Change That.

Discussion in 'Beta Feedback' started by Mettymagic, Aug 24, 2016.

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  1. Mettymagic

    Mettymagic she/her HERO

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    Even a slight chance of losing a mythic or legendary is bullshit, especially when it is all up to luck. Rather than having RNG-based horsecrap decide the fate of your possessions, simply make the player weaker per missing soul point, let's say 5% extra damage taken and 3% less damage dealt. It might not seem like much, but when going from 15sp to 5sp the player would take 50% more damage and deal only 70% of the damage they should. This punishes players by making it easier to die the liwer they are, making them more cautious but removing the retarded factor of the change.

    Thoughts?

    Edit: Here's a TL;DR of the comments for everyone:
    ___________________

    -"u must be really unlucky to drop a mythic lol luck is fair and balanced"
    -"nuzlocke runs punish you so should wynncraft you fucking noob"
    -"let us keep mythics/le/keys pls daddy salted"
    -"revert soul point system you autistic fucks"
    -"just fucking idle dipshit"
    -"fucking idling is stupid you dipshit"
    -"peanut butter goes really well with celery"

    also lets all salute our fallen soldier, xavierexe, and his lost dungeon key. may it rest in peace in a better place.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2016
    Agnar, ldrago125, Nyam and 39 others like this.
  2. icebreaker

    icebreaker Retired YouTuber & Full Stack Web Developer Media HERO

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    u have a chance to loose all ur items when 5 SP actually , but u must be really unlucky lol
     
  3. Cruuk

    Cruuk yopyop HERO

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    The chance of weapons/armor dropping only takes place at 5 SP, and even at 1 SP, it's still only a 16% chance to drop.

     
  4. xKindredKinesis

    xKindredKinesis .[_]. VIP

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    To be honest, I don't really see the point of the new Soul Point system either.
    Some players like to take risks if it means they get to keep playing on that class, and regenerating Soul Points can take a while.
    So by doing this, expect a ton of players that blatantly disregard the warnings and leave complaints that their items disappeared, and spamming the forums with requests for refunds because they can't figure out why their items are gone.

    That, and there isn't any added advantage to having more Soul Points, and instead it's just "not having a chance to flat out lose your item".
    I get that it's probably a good idea to lower simplicity in favor of making gameplay more unique, but this is kind of a stretch.

    Here's an idea to replace the RNG-based item destruction:
    • Remove the chance of losing an item at lower Soul Points
    • When dying at five Soul Points or less, take away a portion of your current XP, scaled on how little Soul Points you have remaining
    • Keep the Inventory Wipe feature to dying with two Soul Points or less
    I'm probably gonna get a lot of flak for this because it seems similar to how Zentrela does it, but it's a system that works well.
     
  5. Mettymagic

    Mettymagic she/her HERO

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    ____________________

    for you my special snowflakes
    at least read the first sentence if you are gonna comment
     
    Corcustos likes this.
  6. FourthHero

    FourthHero Well-Known Adventurer

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    Old soul point system: You lose 15 soul points, you become at risk. If you die, you lose everything.
    New soul point system: You lose 10 soul points, you become at risk. If you die, you don't lose everything, you might lose something good, but you don't lose EVERYTHING.

    The update basically nerfed the death penalties, but also nerfed the max amount of soul points before risk. Either way you can just stop playing after a certain amount of time and you won't have to worry about anything.
     
  7. xKindredKinesis

    xKindredKinesis .[_]. VIP

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    But why put a limit on how much a person can play without such a risk that rears itself at complete random, and only makes things more chaotic?
    I'm not saying that you shouldn't lose your items if you die over and over again, but the Old System was just fine as is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
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  8. llllllllllllll

    llllllllllllll Famous Adventurer

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    They really should just buff SP Regen, and keep it at the new system. Then, having those items would be a lot more important.
     
  9. FourthHero

    FourthHero Well-Known Adventurer

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    If they raised the max soul limits to 20, would you still be mad? Because then it would be better than the old way, indisputably. The old way, you lose 15 soul points and you lose everything, and the new theoretical way, you lose 15 soul points and you only lose some things. Everyone ever would rather lose a few things than everything, at the same cost of 15 soul points.

    But that would be too big of a buff. That's why this is more about them nerfing the max amount of soul points than anything else, because the end goal, the danger, is less scary.
     
  10. xKindredKinesis

    xKindredKinesis .[_]. VIP

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    Yeah, and then you can lose your items that have SP Regen.
    So it wouldn't matter anyway.

    I don't care if it's less likely than an XCOM soldier failing a 99% shot on a Sectoid at point-blank range (which they always fucking do), it's still an unnecessary risk that is further prevalent because of how Soul Points have been unnecessarily attached to random features.
    ________________________________
    I'd prefer it if your items didn't get lost at complete random, because then there's less to worry about.
    It's better to know when you're actually at risk, instead of silently fearing that RNG will punish you.
     
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  11. Salted

    Salted Game Design & Wynncraft Founder Staff Member Admin GM CHAMPION

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    Can I explain my logic?

    Now imagine you recently adopted a dog. Now, it's a great dog and all, but everytime you come back from work, you see a huge pile of poop waiting for you in the middle of your living room. Every single day.
    With the old system, it's kinda like the owner ignoring the poop until the 10th day, and then taking a baseball bat and smashing his dog saying "NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT"
    With the new system, it's more like taking a newspaper and slightly hit the dog the first time, then a little bit more the second time, etc. The dog will eventually get it.

    You guys on the forums are not the average player. We get a lot of people who just quit after losing everything. Dying felt like it was nothing, people would go around and /kill after a loot run to get to a town faster... until you made one mistake and lose EVERYTHING.
    Now, with the new system, you often have a chance to lose something, but not everything. It makes certain situation more tense, without actually punishing the player too hard. The vast majority of the time you won't drop anything meaningful, but there's always that small chance that you might, which suddenly makes dying seem more dangerous, even though it didn't changed much. And there's still that safe spot at 9-15 SP where you don't really lose anything of value. And even more so knowing items start to drop only at 5 SP.

    I think you guys will realise it's not as bad as it sound when you try it. Beta is off right now, but when it comes back tomorrow you'll have more time to play with it. Oh I almost forgot, there's also less chance for low levels to drop items, so that makes it even safer for them while they learn how it works.
     
  12. XavierEXE

    XavierEXE ♪ Wynncraft's Composer and Ability Tree Lead ♫ ♪ Music Item Team CHAMPION

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    But if we get stuck in a wall we still have to wait till we have 7sp in order to safely play again.
    And this is gonna make people afk in towns more to avoid the chance of losing their good items.
    I thought this update was meant to give us more options, with powders, and more ways to get xp, but how are we gonna enjoy it if we spend half the time in towns waiting for our sp to regen above 6?

    Plus, you're comparing a video game to a living creature.
     
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  13. xKindredKinesis

    xKindredKinesis .[_]. VIP

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    Then there should be a very clear warning for when players dip into the "Danger Zone".

    One like this:
    "Be careful, adventurer. You are steadily losing Soul Points, and the next time you fall in battle, you will have a chance to lose one of your items. More information about Soul Points can be found by hovering over the Soul Point item in your Inventory. Please note that Wynncraft has a strict no-refund policy, and once you lose an item, there is nothing the staff can do about it."
    "If you believe you've encountered a bug, please report it at https://github.com/Wynncraft/Issues/issues. Further questions can be asked on the forums at https://forums.wynncraft.com/forums/questions.89/."
    "Click >here< to close this message."
     
  14. Salted

    Salted Game Design & Wynncraft Founder Staff Member Admin GM CHAMPION

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    What's the difference between having 5SP and having to wait, or having 2SP and having to wait? At least with the new system, if you get sick of waiting you can take a chance right away instead of being forced to wait. Sure, it's easier to reach 5SP than 2, but for most non-noob players, it doesn't happen often.

    And yea I'm comparing that to a live creature, it's an analogy. I'm not saying it's literally the same thing, it's just a way to explain my point of view.

    There are warnings, not that much though.
     
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  15. xKindredKinesis

    xKindredKinesis .[_]. VIP

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    I just want to make sure that players are fully aware of this information, so there doesn't have to be much confusion about it later.
     
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  16. XavierEXE

    XavierEXE ♪ Wynncraft's Composer and Ability Tree Lead ♫ ♪ Music Item Team CHAMPION

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    The difference is that we were able to play for longer, and we only had to wait for 2sp max before /killing when we got stuck in a wall, rather than having to wait for 6sp max.
    And, there's going to be so many threads of players who died at 5 sp and lost their weapon or armour and don't know what happened.
    I thought the old system was fine, I don't want my items disappearing being left to chance.

    This would all change, however, if our items actually dropped instead of despawning upon death.
     
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  17. Salted

    Salted Game Design & Wynncraft Founder Staff Member Admin GM CHAMPION

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    Nothing stops you from playing even at 5 SP. There's a small risk, but you'd only lose 3% of your items. Then you'd be at 3 SP, which is almost just like it was before, except that you don't lose everything if you die, only 10%. If you don't want to let chance decide, you still have a comfortable 10 SP you can waste before you can worry about it. All that knowing that you regen one per 20 minutes.
     
  18. XavierEXE

    XavierEXE ♪ Wynncraft's Composer and Ability Tree Lead ♫ ♪ Music Item Team CHAMPION

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    You're forgetting about the beginning of the game, where 5sp is half your total soul points.
    And when you leave it up to chance, I can almost guarantee I'll lose my most important stuff. Anything random never goes well for me.
     
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  19. FourthHero

    FourthHero Well-Known Adventurer

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    That's like saying, in real life, you would rather die than a tiny risk of breaking a bone. Why would you rather lose everything for sure, instead of maybe losing one thing? You KNOW when you're at risk. Before, you know you're GOING TO LOSE IT ALL. After, you know you MIGHT POSSIBLY LOSE ONE THING. Unless you can't see the little 5 in the corner how would you not know you're at risk.

    People afk all the time to avoid dying when they're at 1 or 2 soul points. No different.
     
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  20. Salted

    Salted Game Design & Wynncraft Founder Staff Member Admin GM CHAMPION

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    And you're forgetting the part I said where low level have less chance to drop stuff.
     
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