The Community As Of Now

!!!READ EVERYTHING BEFORE COMMENTING!!!

Hello.

In this thread I want to talk about how the community has improved, and how it has not, since the last time this topic was adressed. Why am I gonna talk about it? Because it needs to be talked about, in my opinion. A few disclaimers; I will not be referencing anything or anyone directly to avoid conflict unless it is something positive. This thread will give some of my thought on the community and this thought shouldn't provoke a flame war, but discussion. Okay, let's begin.

My name is I'm the Ice Guy. I've been lurking this forum for 2 years. It is also the first forum I have participated in. I'd say, it's definitely one of the better ones out there. It's a bit smaller, but that just generally means friendlier folk, I guess. The second half of this year though, I've been drifting further from the forums to the point where I barely comment or participate and just look at stuff. Due to this I guess I've lost(?) a few good forum friends (some are still around and they know who they are) and sorta come back onto the forums every now and again with nothing new to see. I've tried to start participating but I feel like I've lost my chance to make a name for myself again or something. Why do I feel this way? It's not hard to just comment and stuff, right? Well, I've come to two conclusions about why I feel this way.

1. Likes are central to being recognised

Even though we can't change or get rid of them at all, I've come to really hate the idea of keeping track of how many likes you get. In my opinion, likes are the pinnacle of the reason that there tends to be some toxicity. Before I give my point, I'll give a few mock examples of how I see likes being used.
Rob lost his favourite legendary lv 40 weapon. Rob was upset and wanted to tell people about it or hopefully get it back somehow. He posted a thread about it. The comment on Rob's thread that got the most likes was one which mocked the fact that he was sad over such a low level weapon. A comment which said that they'd help get it back with them, got only a few likes.
We all see the 'I lost X' thread a lot, and they'll keep coming. It makes me sad that the people who are just plain mean get the attention over the ones that actually offer to help, or just simply state the rules. Another example:

Jen found an easter egg that she thinks no one has seen before. Jen takes pictures and posts it on the forum titled 'OMG new easter egg!'. Someone comments 'OMG that's been found before', mocking the title and the fact that the secret's been found. It gets a lot of likes.
I see a lot of people, instead of simply stating that it has been found, mocking people for not knowing that an easter egg has been found. And even if it's not an easteregg, anything related to bad grammar or lets say a build thats a bit weird and doesn't work, I see people commenting really nasty and witty things, which are praised by being given likes.

I could give loads of random mock examples, but I won't. Simply put, likes are evil. They encourage mean comments, and the more likes you get the more people put you on a pedastal, thus a vicious cycle begins. If you want to get likes, say something mean yet funny thats on everyone's mind, first. Then you will be cool. There's even achievments for getting certain L:M ratios. Now imagine if the heirarchy of coolness was measured by the amount of messages you had? To me, it would make much more sense; the more messages you have, the more you participate in the community. I guess it could spawn for random spam messages and such, but it would make more sense as to how active you are in the community. Simply rules could be applied (well I guess they are now anyway). The worst part about this is the people who have 0 messages (Yes 0 messages) but have like 500 likes. Completely absurd. They lurk on profiles and are fed likes from their friends to brag about the fact that they give nothing to the community in exchange for likes from their pals. This leads to my second point.

2. The forums have become very tribal and fame-oriented.

What do I mean by 'tribal'? Well, simply put, it's the little (sometimes big) groups of people who dominate the forums, which leave a lot of people as lone wolves, like myself. People in tribes have significantly more presence then new comers and lone wolves. It makes it very hard for new recruits to settle in and contribute. Why? Because they've got no one to 'support' them. No one to like their stuff. They have to work for attention, where as people in tribes don't have to work for attention as they've got their friends to give them likes.

I won't be naming anyone, but there are a few people who really seem to indirectly brag about how famous they are. These people are like the leaders of their respective tribe and practically nothing can bring them down because they are placed so high. And that's all I'm going to say about that, because if I go further things might get ugly.
The forums have become lesser and lesser of an even playing field. I haven't seem anyone new come and stay, and I think this tribal presence is scaring off new forumers.
Am I going to quit? Fuck no! I'm not a quitter, and anyways, it's just a forums about a cool minecraft server and its nothing formal or anything.

So what can we do as a community to fix these issues? Well you can do these things:
- If a comment is rude, witty, sarcastic, or all of the above, then please reconsider whether you're going to like it or not.
- Like comments that are actually helpful towards the situation.
- Be more open. Do not be intimidated by new people and their ability to steal the spotlight.
- If you think you're in a tribe, then try to break this by interacting with everyone, not just those you think worthy to be talked to.

And by all means the community is NOT BAD. It is a good community, much better than it was before. The staff are great, and the events held by @Pretzule, things like Wynnterfest, and the various giveaways and such help to bring everyone closer, and its good to see.

I hope you can see these points through my eyes and we can have a calm discussion about it.
- From a forumer who wants to get back into foruming

 

I mean... Pillowpet was the owner of Wynnterfest I believe... but whatever, I really think that we also could work on the state of the community... I feel like more and more lately people have been kinda trying to be more funny than helpful... which is fine, but when people are being more funny than helpful all the time... then it kinda just seems like people really don't care as much as they could...

However, that's my point of view... and everyone else has their views... but as of now I really stand by what I say here.

 

ooga booga
I'm sorry I had to ;-;

Can I be a lone wolf? :D

 

And if I'm going to be honest here...

It also does slightly annoy me when people joke around instead of answer people's questions...

The way I see questions, is I take them as if not very many people know the answer to it... because they might be new, and they might be shy people. And with me knowing what it's like to be shy, I basically act as if they were me when I first joined... when I first joined, I was literally shaking in fear when I first messaged on the shoutbox... so really it is one of those things where people might be putting themselves out there, out in the open with what you might see as a dumb question, but they honestly don't even know the answer to it. They might be very shy, and they might be putting themselves on the spot to ask a question that they need answers to... and then someone cracks a joke, and then the person might feel embarrassed.

With me, I realize this is the internet, and I realize this is just a forums for a Minecraft server, and whatever, so while you might not have to care about their feelings... you could at least act as though you care about how they feel... It's just a question... and tbh, I know I'm ranting at this point... but I feel like I have to say this, because not very many people really would... and with how @I'm the Ice Guy broke down the gate to pointing out these issues... I felt like I needed to also stand up and say something...

Idk... like I said in my original post on here... you all have your opinions, and this one might just be mine... but tbh, I feel like we can show that we are a good welcoming community... but a lot of people just seem to use jokes, and all that stuff as a substitute for being nice... when really being nice could be:

Being helpful

Answering questions

etc.

And I'm not saying that EVERYONE has to ALWAYS do it... but what I'm doing here is I'm going to try and use my supposed "Popularity" in this community, to say something... to put an actual mark on here, to try and use this gift that you all have given me, to the advantage of the community, and to better the community...

You don't have to listen to me, in fact, I really could care less... but tbh... I feel like I just needed to put a foot down and say what needed to be said.

-Hoke~

 

I agree with the first part of what you're saying how people will disregard being helpful to just being flat out rude or sarcastic. Whether this be because of likes or if they are just like that it still has the same results on the person that needs help or just wants to show something off.

I feel like if the forums keeps doing these comments that serve no purpose other than to try to make the original poster look like a fool then we'll end up in a worse place. This is why I want to encourage members to actually work towards being more helpful and to work towards being more understanding of the newer members while lend a helping hand.
Personally I think if we are more welcoming in general (those welcome to the forums posts are amazing) then the forums will grow into a better environment that invites conversation and understanding.
I am trying to figure out ways to improve this aspect and invite helpfulness of the forums and I feel like the people that are truly helping should be something that is normal.

As for the groups it makes sense that you might feel outcast but groups are in every community, people find interests and talk to people who like similar things, that is how life is in general. I don't think this is a bad thing I just think that you have to find your place and find people like yourself, and to do that you just have to get out there and explore deeper into the forums or start a conversation.
But there is one thing uniting us all which is Wynncraft, one way or another we all are involved with this server and that is something that we have in common. Admittedly it is hard to talk about things after a while with no update but conversations can still come up in some way.

I am hoping what people will take from this thread is to be more welcoming, because that is what your message seems to be, to everyone new or old.
Thank you for making this thread.

 

While every thread has its issues, I do believe you've only hit the tip of the Iceberg, Iceguy (My mom says I'm funny! Wow!).

The first section is somewhat capturing the spirit of the unintentional maliciousness of this community, I think that this issue goes far deeper than simply like count. It's more dependent upon the second issue being your "tribes".

Now, Minecraft is marketed at kids. That's unavoidable, however Wynncraft appeals to a more committed player base, meaning teens to adults. This is a huge age area, but it does contribute to the issues.

As a kid, picking on someone is usually it's worst when kids say things like "you're stupid!", which is considered at the very most, a petty insult in the more mature worlds. As people age, so does their humor. Often that humor comes more at the expense of others. I'm sure we've all sat at the lunch table and tried to stifle laughter when someone trips or falls in a rather outlandish manner.

With the more committed and more developed audience, the forums are basically a never ending version of when you're walking to class. People get in fights then, relationships are made and broken then, among other things. Often people walk in groups.

This comes to the second point of "tribes". Continuing with my school analogy, people ALWAYS for cliques. Sure you may bounce around in middle school, but once you reach high school, if you don't settle down you are the joke that the people you hung out with are always saying. Here, people don't take you seriously if you don't have people who defend you regardless if you're wrong or not.

Yes this does cause issues, but the easy and most effective solution is to be nice. If you make someone here smile, they'll feel welcome. They'll spread the positivity. It's always better to say good than bad.

I know it's ironic coming from the person who took about a "25 imperial tonne" shit on the forums a few months back, but kindness is truly the only solution to issues like this.

You cannot punish someone for liking a post. You cannot punish someone for having friends. You can make people like more positive things through positivity. You can make people get with better friends by introducing them to yours.

 

In my experience, almost everybody has made a sarcastic or scathing comment once on this server. I've done it. You've probably done it too. I guess the biggest issue (for me) with that is the fact that you want to post it. It's witty, sarcastic, and funny. And when people like it, you feel proud.

Spoiler: IMO this contributes to the discussion but it's stuff about my life.. so you may or may not want to read it

Ok, so my friend has a quote book. Basically, she writes down things that her friends say that she finds funny. I once said, "Who would want -3 [negative 3] cookies?
And that landed me a page in the quote book.
It made me feel good about myself. I was able to impress my friend, while we both were having a good laugh about it.
And it's the same things with the comments you were talking about. When it gets liked, you feel good about yourself. You feel... well, you probably know how it feels.

And I think that's an issue. It does feel good to be proud, but you should focus on the other person's feelings. I've gotten legit triggered while reading stuff on here, so why shouldn't anyone else?
But the thing is, sometimes I find those comments funny - even if the joke was on me. So I've laughed at my own foolishness... and other people's foolishness. It's just that you don't know whether the comment will make the person laugh or make them angry. And then that person could reply with a sarcastic comment of their own, thus continuing the chain.

As far as likes go, I think they can also make people feel empowered. If you have a good like:message ratio, you'd generally feel good about yourself. People like your comments almost as much as you post them. (geez the sentence made no sense).
And (for me) the same kind of thing happens with messages. I'm thinking, Ooh, if I just get 1k messages... I'll be known!

Another thing with likes: I like something because a) I genuinely like it, b) because it made me laugh, c) it's nice (like your post... and Hoke's post), and d) because it's witty.
And 1 more reason.
Let's imagine something. I've just asked a question. A nice person answers it. But I don't want to simply reply with a 'k.' So I like the post instead. In my opinion, it's a good way to reply - you've shown the answerer you've acknowledged their response, and you don't clutter the OP's thread.


Let's talk about tribes. I've kinda seen it...? Well, I know that for instance: A theory by Spyrohawk or Mular would be more liked then say... A theory by Amun_ra (who actually made a good theory). It's not that Mular or Spyro are bad - they're excellent, but... well...
And maybe people are scared off by the presence of forum giants like Yuno or Ganon. TBH I've never seen something like that. For me, being in the forums was... really just for fun. I was kinda intimidated by them... but I also looked up to them. What made them get so many likes? What made them so famous? And so... I guess I aspired to be known - like them. But I was never scared off. I just kinda pushed my way through, making comments where I felt appropriate. Slowly accumulating messages. And likes. etc.

I feel like the community is great. Like... really great. But yes, it needs some changes. I think we could be more welcoming to the "new crowd" by... well just being nice. Answering questions, being nicer in general suggestions..! and not posting as many of those sarcastic witty comments. Of course they will appear - but I hope they will appear less. Unless they're poking fun at someone not on the forums. Make fun of Trump all you want. I'll support that.

 

lol huge thread with only 7 now 8 posts

 

I do agree with you on these points. I don't really consider myself in any type of 'tribe' I just am open and do what I do. I don't really expect on getting likes cause it's not much of a deal for me. But yeah, being helpful and nice to newcomers is a nice thing to do and I also do feel like more people should get out there and be much respectful and heart-warming to the new people that join.

With what @Pretzule said, I also agree with. You just have to find the people that you feel most comfortable with. Trust me, when I first joined I was a bit shy and scared to talk to new people cause I had never been in a community like this before. Then one day I found a friend who had some similar interests as me and I started talking to them and they helped me I'm still friends with her to this day (:

 

I definitely agree with these points. I've recently read the requirements to make a featured wynncraftian nomination, and frankly, a like to post ratio of 1? That honestly doesn't really make sense. I get the general idea behind it, but not all active community members have a like to message ratio of one. Take me as an example.

Its gotten to the point where I don't even want to make posts on the trade market simply because it will drive my ratio down even more, and I refuse to be the guy who makes casual and "funny" profile posts. The way the forums are now is basically if you have likes, you are famous, even if you didn't get those likes for the right reasons.

 

To be fair it was set that way a while ago, I'll probably ask Salted to change it in the future but right now until the next set of FW comes it'll stay.

 

ok, but still, my point remains. I feel that a way to distinguish what you "like" the post for would be helpful. Like the mineplex forums used to have, with ratings like "funny" and "helpful" on forum posts. The reason that this was removed was because people ended up using "funny" as a way of saying "stupid", but just putting the idea out there.

 

I will say that your statements are correct in regards to the forums. Think of it as a pond: you have the small fish who just joined, and then you have the larger, hungrier fish who crave likes from sarcastic or joking comments. While not everyone hunts for likes, the people who do tend to be rude towards the new members, such as making fun of the question or posting "nicefind.avi" when a new player finds an old Easter egg. Most of the community is mature, but there are several cases where a question or comment is slammed down by these "big fish".

You have to go with a mentality that you will start out small, but will eventually be respected. Sure, there might be "tribes" of members who gang up on the newbies and post their rude garbage, but there are also members who are willing to actually answer and help you with your "evolution" as a member. These helpers don't care about likes or trying to get the most. These members have a sole purpose in the community: helping people out with their issues or questions.

However, these people are becoming more rare, which relates back to your initial post. Almost every thread will have some sort of sarcastic or joking comment that turns the topic in another direction. Almost every Easter egg thread will have "nicefind.avi" in it. The "newbie" questions will most likely be harassed and made fun of despite the member being new to the game. As a helper myself, I came on here to help players in need of help. I do not make fun of their language or typing style. I do not make sarcastic comments. I simply post a thorough answer that will help the player move on in the game.

I do post on profiles of some of my forum friends, who are friends I highly trust and are typically helpers as well. My comments are typically funny, but not in a hurtful or rude way. To be honest, if I didn't do that my like/message ratio would be below 1, but I really don't care about that since in my opinion a helper doesn't need likes to be respected. The community needs more helpers who can go on threads and answer a player's question without being rude in any way. They don't care about likes or being famous, but rather being a respected member of the community.

As a final remark, I will say the community is improving, but it still needs some work. The mods are still having to frequently fill in for those who won't help, and I still see very hateful posts on threads (including some that the mods were forced to delete because of its offensiveness). I think if more people made the effort to help out other people on these forums, the community will make a drastic turn for the better.

Let's stay determined and make our community a better place.

 

This sounds familiar.

 

Yeah Im not gonna bother to read all this...

 

Is the like thing taking shots at anyone specific? Also I see it more as the helpful polite comment gets an about equal amount of likes as the witty sarcastic jokes.

 

I really learnt a lot of things about forums here. Thanks for sharing your precious experience :)

 

AY! "and the various giveaways" DAS MEEEE

yea the 0 posts and 500 likes (or somethin like dat) is serious cancer

Nice post

 

I agree. For being a member of wynn for 2-3ish years, other peolple are more famous and get more attention, while other people like me try to get likes to have attention to feel important.