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World Item Lore Rework

Discussion in 'General Suggestions' started by TrapinchO, Jul 21, 2022.

?

Do you support this rework?

  1. yes

    55.7%
  2. yes, but with changes

    18.2%
  3. neutral

    2.3%
  4. no

    2.3%
  5. idc, this is MASSIVE

    21.6%
  1. Samsam101

    Samsam101 Star Walker CHAMPION

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  2. strikeflame5356

    strikeflame5356 what do I write here VIP

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    I'm sorry no you can't do this
     
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  3. TrapinchO

    TrapinchO retired observer of the wiki VIP+ Featured Wynncraftian

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    Why do I feel like I know who made that one?
     
  4. Samsam101

    Samsam101 Star Walker CHAMPION

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    oh my god
     
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  5. TheFrostB1te

    TheFrostB1te Potato Merchant

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    Since when Tesla is a defensive item
     
  6. StinkEyeCookie

    StinkEyeCookie Jesus of Nether-eth

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    Wasn't me
    The lore says that it's at the expense of defensive capability
     
  7. SKZR

    SKZR Well-Known Adventurer

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    For things like the gert ultistick I prefer the old lore and changing these might be unnecessarry.

    However most of the lore change are welcome 'cause now lore-wise it's gonna make more sense and overall some are just better written and even sometimes more poetic which I enjoy reading
     
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  8. Samsam101

    Samsam101 Star Walker CHAMPION

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    electric shocks to the wearer's cock and balls
     
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  9. StinkEyeCookie

    StinkEyeCookie Jesus of Nether-eth

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    You're not allowed to say that here, Samsam101...
     
  10. TrapinchO

    TrapinchO retired observer of the wiki VIP+ Featured Wynncraftian

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  11. Samsam101

    Samsam101 Star Walker CHAMPION

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  12. StinkEyeCookie

    StinkEyeCookie Jesus of Nether-eth

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    Me too!
     
  13. Samsam101

    Samsam101 Star Walker CHAMPION

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    item lore...
     
  14. Samsam101

    Samsam101 Star Walker CHAMPION

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    this thread spent a year in development hell only to be buried
     
  15. TrapinchO

    TrapinchO retired observer of the wiki VIP+ Featured Wynncraftian

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    tbf it was dead for a few months
     
  16. Linnyflower

    Linnyflower ironman btw HICH Master CHAMPION

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    HOOOLY SHIT HOW HAVE I NOT SEEN THIS UNTIL NOW???????
     
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  17. TrapinchO

    TrapinchO retired observer of the wiki VIP+ Featured Wynncraftian

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    Btw there is a bounty for "weird" item lores (e.g. "sucks" or anything obviously not meant to be there). Reward? worthless internet points!
     
  18. Bwitty03

    Bwitty03 Famous Adventurer HERO

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    I think the golemlus cores are specified to be mostly mechanical in the new from the bottom quest
     
  19. AmbassadorDazz

    AmbassadorDazz Discord Killjoy Staff Member Moderator HERO

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    Bit of a long-form, but I'll keep my advice specifically to mythics.
    While the new lore fits the item much better, the original lore can be rewritten to better represent the item while not losing its identity. The original lore is on the post.
    My take:
    "Enigmatically, this weapon will only show its true power to those who believe themselves to be worth nothing, or to be weak. While the runes carved into this ancient spear will greatly embolden its bearer, the enchantments on the weapon will fade when they are no longer needed, rendering them mortal again."
    This is a massive improvement on the original lore, tying it better to the lore of Doguns and Garaheth. but a slight rewrite is in order.
    "Death grew nearer and the fate of Doguns were poised to be sealed by the Dwarves marching upon the Heights. In an act of defiance, the Dogun smith Uru forged legendary weapons that could ignite that which was already burnt to hell and back, as the Doguns continued to chant the name of the terrible beast that looms over the Dwarves even to this day."
    As for who Uru is, here's a bit of character building:
    For context

    Uru (a non-canon character) is a Dogun smithy who was born untold aeons ago - a hermit who isolated himself from other Doguns for his inability to shape the mountains like his brethren, but possessed nearly impeccable smithing techniques that "metalworkers can only dream to achieve". While the thread is a bit outdated since this is an "on the spot" rewrite for the character, unlike in the thread, he did create weapons for Doguns at times of need, such as the 1st Dogun War.
    Too many question marks.
    "To study the blade is to live by it, use it like an extension of your body, and to learn from its mistakes. The experiences of countless wielders, coalesced into this blade, does not merely stagger the foe, but truly cancel out even the most crushing of blows."
    Most of the Mythic tier items are loosely tied into in-game lore. For the case of Absolution, I had already made a suggestion (that I never released), so here it is with slight rewrites:
    "Before the Shattering, the relentless hunt of Doguns by the Dwarves has forced splinter factions from both sides to unite and condemn this senseless war. Threats greater than a fabricated war loomed over their heads, but leaders of both sides merely turned a blind eye to them, unaware of a horrible extinction about to follow."
    This is in relation to the Ahms Region Colossus, not the Canyon Colossus - because the Doguns went into hiding, afraid of being hunted down to extinction, nobody was able to calm down the Colossus when it went berserk, resulting in the Shattering.
    Don't fix what isn't broken. The original lore is good enough, and there's not really any point in rewriting it, since it somewhat sums up the item nicely.
    See Hero.
    "Many prophecies, some fabricated, are forgotten to the passage of time. A Dogun prophecy however, carved into a stone scripture, foretells of a dawn soon to break, in which the earth shall run red and return to flame. Whispers of a heretical sect worship the coming of a new demon god.
    "The twin goddesses of Storm and Thunder fell from grace after the decimation of the Olm, the last race to worship them - their civilization leaving behind a legacy of ruin, exemplified to its truest form in these boots."
    Also gives a bit more insight to what gods the Olm would've worshipped. This isn't canon.
    The authors of Memory Paranoia will likely have me shot dead for this, but here we go - a rewrite of the suggestion and the original, combined:
    "In a great fire, the Caritats were reduced to cinders, to charred remnants of what once was a wealthy and prosperous family. What little spark of their legacy, before the Decay claimed it all, burns eternal in the heart of its sole survivor, waiting for the day that the Caritat family can finally move on and rebuild."
    This implies that the quest giver of Memory Paranoia, Atisun, may finally rebuild and continue the legacy of his family before they all went insane.
    What is it with these short, few words long sentences in lore?
    "Forged deep within the Heights, these boots were worn by the staunch peacekeepers who opposed the war on both sides - greatly empowering their bearers in times of need, and protecting them from the world-moving magicks of the Doguns and the rapidly advancing technology of the Dwarves that threatened to stop them in their tracks."
    Ties the boots to Absolution, as well as the Dwarves & Doguns quest line (and the lore surrounding these two races).

    Honestly some of the stuff could use a proper rewrite, but other than the those I listed here, the suggestion is fairly solid and offers a better insight into the past (and sometimes the present) of Wynncraft from a lore perspective.
     
  20. StinkEyeCookie

    StinkEyeCookie Jesus of Nether-eth

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    CLAUSE WITH REGARD TO "this"/"these" PIECE(s) OF EQUIPMENT. CLAUSE WITH REGARD TO EQUIPMENT, CLAUSE WITH REGARD TO USER.
    What really causes items to lose their identity is this formulaic lore structure that can be seen so often in Wynn item lores.
    Also, this is a rework. The lore is intended to be different from the original.
    So- what's wrong with the lore, specifically?

    But on your suggestion: no one knows who Uru is, and that's a big problem. You can't just make a reference to a vague throwaway character that was made up just for the context of this specific lore, because no one will know who Uru is, and at that point the name "Uru" may as well be a magical incantation that appears on the player's screen. Also, Uru and his actions are the subject (not in the grammatical sense) of a sentence only once in this lore. His actions are not elaborated upon and their consequences are not mentioned.

    Also: grammar error. "the fate of the Doguns were poised to..."; the "were" should be "was."

    And "the Dwarves marching upon the Heights" is unnecessary; the fact that they are interacting with the Doguns is enough to say that they're in the Heights, so it provides no further informational value and nor does it provide poetic value, making it just redundant, or implying that the reader knows nothing of Wynncraft lore.

    Three other things on "the fate of the Doguns was poised to be sealed by the Dwarves... legendary weapons that could ignite that which was already burnt to hell and back":
    First of all, why would a Dwarven smith create a magical sword (assuming it is magic that "ignites" things; otherwise it should have been elaborated upon), given that Dwarves are against "demonic" magicks? Wouldn't it have been much more fitting for a Dogun smith to have forged the weapon?
    Second, "to hell and back" sounds very informal, which poses a contrast to the more poetic, dramatic-sounding "fate blah blah poised blah blah sealed blah blah."
    Third, Hell doesn't even exist in Wynncraft, making it a very much unnecessary reference to the real world.

    Your version is also factually incorrect. Garaheth does not loom over the Dwarves. He's dead, or at least trapped in his realm. In the original by us, it says that his name looms over them, as in Garaheth is feared; but it's not true that Garaheth himself is still present and active in the Heights.
    "Too many question marks"? There's a total of two question marks...

    Your version is rather generic sounding. "Blah blah live by the blade blah blah extension of the body blah blah" - who knows how many times authors have strung these words together? And most of it does not even tie into the name of the item. It's just generic stuff you'd find anywhere; only the last clause has to do with the nullification aspect of "Nullification."

    And, of course, grammar error: "The experiences... does not merely stagger the foe..."; the "does" should be "do."

    Also, why does it mention the "experiences of countless wielders" if the lore is about "your body", as in the reader's; you're the one who's studying the blade, living by it, using it as an extension of your own body, learning. If it's about your personal struggle, why is the blade the coalescence of other wielder's experiences?

    Another thing: what does "it" refer to? "To study the blade is to live by it... and to learn from its mistakes." From what I can decipher, your words refer to the blade, not the wielder of the blade. You're learning from the blade's mistakes? Not your own mistakes, but the mistakes of a piece of metal? Are you analyzing the blacksmith's work for flaws or what?

    And again, I have to point out: "this blade"... "This blade," "this sword," "this bow," "this" this and "this" that... it's a bit too repetitive, too formulaic, don't you think?

    I'll admit, indeed it is a good thing to have item lores tie in with in-game lore. I do have a few problems with your lore though:

    Firstly, the Dwarves conquered the Molten Heights around 300 AP - 300 years after the shattering of the Ahms region.

    I don't know what it's formally called but the passive wording detracts from the quality of the lore. Using "the hunt by the Dwarves" instead of "the Dwarves' hunt" destroys the flow of the sentence in a way I cannot articulate, but it still does feel awkward.

    The "has" in "has forced splinter factions... to unite..." sounds weird; the presence of "has" implies that this condemnation is something that happened in the past but continues to have an effect on the present, which is odd given that "before the Shattering" implies a time disconnected from now. You wouldn't say something like "Julius Caesar has become dictator of Rome" when writing a description of Caesar's life or whatever; it's more natural to say "Julius Caesar became dictator of Rome."

    "This senseless war" sounds overly emotional. "This" means that the war has already been mentioned in previous clauses, which it hasn't. Thus, it implies a closeness of the reader to the text, as the war would have had to do with the context of the player, and the player certainly is not over 1000 years old, i.e. old enough to be alive before the shattering of the Ahms region. The use of "senseless" is similar too. It sounds not so much informational or poetic as so much emotional or trying to drive in a point. If this was a speech delivered in the time period the lore describes, "this senseless war" would fit with the context, but this is no speech. And "fabricated" - this makes it sound like you, the writer, are arguing one side of some debate, not writing of some historical background. It's also information the player does not find out about until after completing the Dwarves and Doguns questline, but the lore makes it sound like common information when its not supposed to be.

    The whole series of "threats" they "turned a blind eye" to is rather cliche. Leaders ignoring this and that - whether or not it may reflect real-world politics, it's an overused trope, especially in Wynncraft.

    I also have to say, "horrible extinction" is just too comedic of a phrase. I don't know about you, but that phrase just sounds really silly. The use of the word "horrible" is also redundant - as if extinctions weren't horrible to begin with? It's like saying "the smart genius" or "the terrible atrocity."
    Here's the original for reference: "Sheer strength exudes from these Orcish relics, simple sandals ill-fitting to humans or Villagers. Enchanted with power and rage rather than magic, the strength that is provided when they are worn is unparalleled."

    Indeed, I suppose there wasn't much thought into this when writing these lores, but as it turns out, the fates have played in my favor. The original lore paints a picture of brutish Orcs ignorant to the finer arts of magic, who are full of rage. This contrasts to what is seen in the 2.0 quest All Roads to Peace. It seems the Wynn team has decided to try to make Orcs less of these mindless beasts and more of a simpler people victimized and demonized by the Villagers. They have metalworking, art, technology, and intellectual studies. They value strength, but they value reason more.

    And then- CLAUSE WITH REGARD TO "this"/"these" PIECE(s) OF EQUIPMENT. CLAUSE WITH REGARD TO EQUIPMENT, CLAUSE WITH REGARD TO USER. A repetitive structure.

    Also, I feel that Skien should get more love than he currently does. That's who the lore is about, if you weren't aware.
    "Some fabricated" adds no value; in fact, it detracts from the lore, as mentioning some terrible prophecy while also saying that many prophecies aren't true just isn't the best way to create a lore with a powerful quality.

    "A Dogun prophecy however..."
    There is nothing to "however;" there is nothing previously mentioned that this statement contrasts with. Cut the fluff and the words that add no meaning.
    And the "a" in "a Dogun prophecy" implies that this prophecy is one that does not have many important differences from other prophecies; it's just some regular old prophecy, not a specific one. Nothing special;
    just "a" prophecy.

    "Whispers of a heretical sect worship the coming of a new demon god." You say that connecting item lores to other things is good, but I'll say this: far worse than not connecting item lores to other lore in Wynncraft is making up new lore that you're just gonna throw away moments later. It detracts from other lore by creating this vast sea of random characters who add nothing to the overarching story of Wynncraft, who serve no purpose other than to exist in some random item's description. This "new demon god" detracts from the importance of "Garaheth" as a "demon god." That is, unless by "new demon god" you mean Garaheth - but in that case, I'd like to point out that Garaheth isn't a "new" demon god, in Wynncraft lore.
    This doesn't give insight. Random information isn't insight.

    Also, this implies other races also worshipped the gods of Storm and Thunder. Which? You'll have to make up an entire other civilization that no one knows about now, and that's a tragedy. Or, it will be some race on the other side of the world - still leading to a jumbled mess.

    And personally, I would've expected the Olm to worship the stars or something, given their clear interest in astrology. The whole Storm and Thunder thing is just kind of out of the blue.
    Another silly phrase! "In a great fire, the Caritats were reduced to cinders." Not the Caritat Mansion, but the Caritats themselves. It's just, silly. Imagine saying "In the house fire, Johnny was burnt to a crisp." It's just such an overly dramatic way of saying that they died, while not actually giving much insight into their deaths.
    You don't have to write a one-sentence lore to make your point. And what, even, is your point? More is not necessarily better. Longer sentences are not necessarily more poetic or interesting.

    Language has a rhythm. It has a flow, a pattern; of strong and weak, of stressed and unstressed; of long, flowing sentences and short, biting phrases.

    Why did you use a dash in "... on both sides - greatly empowering..."? A medium length pause that the dash marks breaks up the flow of the sentence. It should just be a comma there. Then, after that, you have a string of 27 words unbroken by punctuation. If one were to narrate that lore, they'd end up out of breath. Commas exist.

    Another thing I've noticed - you quite like to write lores about these "peacekeepers" (I don't think that's the most exact word you can use, unless you mean to say that it was an organization of military personnel), these centrists, one might call them. Those who take the middle ground. I suppose we all have our ideals, but isn't it rather cliche (in certain contexts some might even argue that it's wrong and ignorant) to iconize these people who claim that they are anti-war, supposedly peace-loving individuals of elevated morals that advocate for the mediation of conflicts between two parties? I don't think I'll bring up examples from real life.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
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