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Champion Rank Has Ruined Proffing (and Bomb Parties In General)

Discussion in 'Wynncraft' started by TaintedL1on, Feb 18, 2021.

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  1. HardcoreChan

    HardcoreChan Wynnian Photographer, Eye Pet Enthusiast CHAMPION

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    Glad to finally know theres some staff acknowledgement regarding the issues of champion, thx hams
     
  2. Lexwomy

    Lexwomy Lexwomy VIP+

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    My main gripe is that the new world selector makes you play spot the world! (to make it even harder, worlds above 64 are still shown as 64). By the time you find the world, surprise surprise, its 45/40. This makes /switch extremely unfair to any non heros and champions. You can still have the fastest internet, reflexes, speed and speedrun spot the world but you'll still never beat /switch and you end up with "The server is full!" To the normal player, the time you /hub and open the compass is the time it takes for someone to type /switch 42.
     
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  3. ccccccccccccccc

    ccccccccccccccc horse failure

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    No mention of champions in champion slots shifting into normal slots after any player leaves instead of letting the normal slots go down to 39/40 when one normal player leaves, making it literally impossible for nons to join a full world until all the champion slots are empty and one more player leaves? Everyone keeps saying this is a bug but it seems like the design to me.

    Of course champion slots aren't being used excessively, that is exactly what the problem is. In bomb servers the champions join when it's full and get put in champ slots. Then over time people leave and the champions in champ slots go into normal slots, thus no longer using champion slots. They are now preventing normal players from joining until even more people leave, but making room in the champ slots for more champions to join. The process continues and both nons and champs who leave are only replaced by champs until you end up with servers with nearly fully yellow tablists that could still only be using 1/5 champ slots. As long as a single champ slot is taken, nobody else can join. If you want to take anything from low champ slot utilization, take the fact that even with half a server full of champs there might not be a single champ slot being used.

    Also of course champ slots almost never end up being used on non bomb servers, because there isn't a line of people spamming to join in the lobby. This shouldn't be justification that things are ok.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  4. ChrisTheBear

    ChrisTheBear I don't hate twinks :) CHAMPION

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    Yeah my idea is flawed, your idea is actually great though
     
  5. Blueswordss

    Blueswordss Well-Known Adventurer CHAMPION

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    Let me start this by saying that I don't even have champion as of yet (planning to get within a year or so)

    But anyways I think it all comes down to this: What is Wynncraft? What is any commercial Minecraft server?
    It is a business.
    Its main goals are to make profit and keep expanding its influence.

    As a server it has costs in maintenance and in development (some staff such as devs are paid afaik)
    To cover these costs they need to have monetisation that is worth getting, personally I am surprised they didn't have the perks of champion / champion itself as a rank out much much earlier. They could have easily added more features into the rank as well but they didn't.

    Currently wynncraft is extremely f2p friendly (e.g. bombs working for an entire server rather than user), and I would also agree that "you don't need bombs to progress" and players who spend money should be allowed to benefit from other players spending money (i.e. bomb bell).
    The champion slots are also 100% fine imo, if it wasn't part of the champion perk I feel a lot of people (or at least myself) would not buy champion.
     
  6. TrapinchO

    TrapinchO retired observer of the wiki VIP+ Featured Wynncraftian

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    ?
    Yes, but if you notice CT and Moderation team is made of volunteers and the profit is (from Salted's old words if I remember correctly) "enough to make my living".
    This imo hints towards more of a "I put my heart into this" rather than "make me money".
    But yes, it seems to be turning into business as of 1.20

    Yes, I agree with this statement. However I disagree with the feature because it disadvantages others.
     
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  7. wSur

    wSur Well-Known Adventurer VIP+

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    Respectfully, I disagree.
    Yes, it maybe unfair to players without a rank, but like all Minecraft servers post-EULA, wynncraft needs money. Hell, even hypixel needs money (MVP++).

    Although it would be an amazing tool, Wynntils should not have the right to get donation money off of a bomb tracking feature.

    You remove champion rank, you remove wynncraft, or at the very least prevent new content.
     
  8. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage 1.18 was the best update, don't @me CHAMPION

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    I wrote about this earlier, but Champion is not going to singlehandedly keep Wynncraft alive or provide them with nearly enough money to run the server for a meaningful amount of time, saying that Wynncraft needs money is possibly the single weakest defense for Champions aggressively advantageous features. If Wynn needs to bring in more money each month, this isn't the way to do it, the only way to reliably bring in more money each month is to get off their asses and run their store properly, not play the guilt card to get people to pay for in game advantages, some of which might actually go against the EULA depending on how you interpret it.

    Also, comparing Hypixel to Wynncraft is a complete joke, Hypixel yearly server and staff costs are in the millions with a conservative estimate, Wynn is orders of magnitude lower.

    I do agree though, it isn't necessarily hypocritical to not let Wynntils have a bomb tracker, though their reason is extremely hypocritical since they specifically said the reason given was that it gave a gameplay advantage, which is basically an admission that they're violating the EULA with it, not like that's a new thing for the game though.
     
  9. TaintedL1on

    TaintedL1on Remove Champion bomb bell CHAMPION

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    I'm not saying Champion rank shouldn't exist, I'm saying the way that it is implemented right now is rather unfair towards non-Champions and heavily incentivises people to buy Champion for the perks alone, rather than just doing it to support the server they love.

    And I was pointing out that it was hypocritical of the admins to decide that Wynntils wasn't allowed to make a bomb tracker for the reasons they outlined (i.e. not fair to the people who don't have Wynntils, despite it being free and easy to install), but those exact same reasons don't seem to apply to the Champion bomb tracker because it's locked behind $160.
     
  10. IceBear

    IceBear Ice Bear says hi VIP+

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    Ice Bear says you can make money while not being pay2win. Ice Bear says look at almost all the successful games today and you will notice that they are doing just fine selling cosmetics. Look at Wynncraft for the past few years without champion rank and it has been doing just fine without selling pay2win features. Ice Bear has even offered some non-pay2win perks for Champion which seemed well accepted. Wynncraft needing money is not a good excuse for pay2win when there are so many proven alternatives that Wynncraft has been using so far.
     
  11. APersonWasHere

    APersonWasHere But who? HERO

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    My issue lies in the fact that the bomb bell effectively takes away dxp from players who don't buy bombs. My thing is if you really want DXP to the point that you'd be willing to effectively pay $170 as a base price for the bomb bell, you should just get both 52 Prof xp and Combat xp bombs for $100. I mean, the only two other really noteworthy perks for Champion that don't involve DXP in some way are Merchant Booths and Pet tasks, so really the main reason people would buy Champion is for either the bomb bell or the slots. I don't know about you, but I'd much rather just pay $100 for the bombs than for Champion.
     
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  12. PotatoLord1st

    PotatoLord1st Well-Known Adventurer CHAMPION

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    join bomb tracker discord or something. im posting every bomb pinged on bomb bell
     
  13. APersonWasHere

    APersonWasHere But who? HERO

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    Just because you put it in the discord doesn't mean that players can join, that's part of the whole issue. Because of the Bomb Bell, Champions flock to all the servers with bombs before anyone says anything in the discord, meaning the server is probably already full before any non-champions even get a chance to join.
     
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  14. APersonWasHere

    APersonWasHere But who? HERO

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    The greatest debate statement; "lol ok"
    In all seriousness, this is an issue that some people want to take seriously. Dunno what gave you the impression that I'm upset, but no need to be so... I don't know, targeted with your response.
     
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  15. wSur

    wSur Well-Known Adventurer VIP+

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    That is where I can agree. It is a possibility that they still make money off of champion rank with a rework.

    However, like you said, wynncraft is a business.
    We can not complain that wynncraft incentives paying money to accel at the game. It is a part of how business works.

    Even if everybody on the server bought the rank, 170$ one and done is a very small amount of money made compared to literally every other business that ever existed.

    Play mobile games, it will be an enlightening experience.
    ________________________________
    I agree, which is why even with the addition of this gameplay advantage it won't be enough money. Why wouldn't they try to stay afloat longer with the addition of this?

    That I can agree with, it is Wynncraft's right to say who can make money off of the feature and who can't, but their reasoning was presented horribly.
    ________________________________
    I wouldn't stress about him. He's clearly a biased champion rank that is too lazy to make an actual argument.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  16. APersonWasHere

    APersonWasHere But who? HERO

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    As I said before, I feel most peoples' issue isn't that the game incentivizes paying money, it's that those incentives are a penalty for player's who don't pay. WynnCraft has every right to try and monetize their game in some way-hardly anyone disagrees with that-but when those incentives make it that much harder for normal players to get the same benefits as before, that's when it starts to become a serious issue. Honestly I feel the best thing they can do is just remove the bomb bell all together and replace it with a large amount of (possibly exclusive) cosmetics, or come up with a less disruptive gameplay advantage.
     
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  17. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage 1.18 was the best update, don't @me CHAMPION

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    We can complain about anything we want to, just like how the game owes it's players nothing, it's players owe it nothing. Needing money to still exist doesn't mean any business decisions they make should be free from criticism. If they're going to keep making bad decisions, people can and should be call them out for it.
     
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  18. HardcoreChan

    HardcoreChan Wynnian Photographer, Eye Pet Enthusiast CHAMPION

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    I have gathered all known info recorded from across the ages, have climbed the tallest cliffs to gather info from the elder ones, and threw myself into endless pits of quicksand i could to find any hidden libraries, and at last, with all my knowledge i can safely say that this isn't an argument
     
  19. SmileyAlec

    SmileyAlec Olympic Gaming HERO

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    thank you for all the constructive criticism you have provided on this thread thus far, i am certain the wynncraft team will take this into account when proceeding to balance the champion rank
     
  20. Pixelæs

    Pixelæs just a mathematician

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    One sentence arguments? Why didn't we think of that earlier? I'll present my own: Champion should be removed, and you spent way too long typing that. Why not use Newspeak instead?
     
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