Wynncraft doesn’t feel fun anymore.

I mean when it actually kills you

 

The game has changed a lot. So much I can say the Wynn you knew only lives in a memory now. So you have two realistic options: let it stay a memory and move on, or accept the game that you played doesn't longer exist and adapt to what it is now. Because the option of de-evolving the game back to what it was is not an option. Even if you tried to, systemic theory says a system can't ever return to a previous point, thus the only constant is change (emergent properties is the term, if you wanna google that up lol).

I think you shouldn't worry about the mainstream opinions about stats maxxing or anything players pursue to feel "superior" over other players. Can't deny that does happen through gatekeeping builds and looking down on others that aren't part of the most elite circles of the game. I think if you're already past college, you have control on how much you let people's opinions influence you. It's actually the fact you are being influenced by these opinions that the game is hard for you because you want to go from zero to a hundred to fit in, without the base knowledges on how to make these builds actually work, therefore being way harder for you than what it actually is. So, you shouldn't let what others are saying and doing ruin the game for you.

I suggest you give Wynncraft a new try, but with an open mind. Not expecting the old game it was, and being open to how you are supposed to overcome the new challenges the game presents. While I did prefer the simplicity even before Gavel existed when identifications were really just spell damage, mana regen/steal and life steal, I'd say the game does have a value premise that holds up and that it's worth getting past the learning curve of the system.

I think Wynn has become the more realized vision of what they had, a kind of combat rpg, similar to what other games like Tales of are. It is a niche genre of videogames, specific to the fifth and sixth generations of gaming. If you want an old school rpg that feels up to date and offers way more than some of the more highly-acclaimed MMO's like FF14 for FREE, you'll be able to get a hang of the gameplay. You'll have to learn how identifications work with one another, experiment on your own making your own builds--not playing what others are playing--and enjoy its sandbox-like experience where the one that creates the experience you have in the game is essentially you with the help of the friends you make a long the way.

 

I feel like it's just drought of content, the only actual challenging achievement that 2.1 has added is Annahilation, boss remakes are cool but are not really actual new addition.

And even then the remakes were mostly focuses on low level, things like forgery and legendary island have hardly changed

More weapons/gears are fun but without new content the meta inevitably gets stale, especially in parties when you gotta think of other players. Why make tanky or gimmicky build when everyone runs glass cannon that melts the boss in a minute?

 

Quote #1:

It goes without saying that there are more players like me who think like this. We are the minority evident by the server’s new direction, but a minority could still be compromised of a lot of people.

Even if the server wants to cater to the majority, choosing to ignore the minority on issues will still do significant damage to the server’s health.

There’s a reason why in elections, even when one party wins a majority, the opinions of the others aren’t entirely discounted. (At least that how it should be.. ahem.. USA..)

As for your talk about the games for the unemployed, you matter what you have to say, Wynncraft just a tiny part of an official, fully fledged game: Minecraft. Wynncraft is not a game in of itself.

The majority of Minecraft servers are competition-oriented, and the players who play on them are generally competitive too, however, but they are actually the minority when it comes to Minecraft.

Minecraft, at its core, is a peaceful sandbox game. Because of this, it mainly attracts players who like peaceful, stress-free gameplay.

What I’m getting at here is that Minecraft’s competitive playerbase is absolutely dwarfed by its casual playerbase, and I’m not talking out of my a__ here.

This is fact. The vast majority of Minecraft players are casuals who experiment in their own worlds, and sometimes join their friends’ worlds or SMPs.

It is a game for creators.

Jeb and the others who currently manage the game recognize this, hence why they cater to casuals with silly little pieces of content like aesthetic updates, new blocks and new items. I have not heard them mention anything explicitly competition related for quite some time.

Example: The latest combat snapshot is almost 2 years old (I think)

Example 2: Despite there being numerous and honestly pretty good solutions to the 1.8/1.9 combat split on the old official Minecraft forums, Jeb has chosen to let the old playerbase die down instead of working with them to potentially make everyone happy. (I still hate that he did this to this day, even though my cps averages to about 6 and I get rocked in most 1.7/1.8 PvP game modes)

It’s ironic that you claim that Wynncraft would take a hit by catering to casuals, given the above. There are more casuals out there for grabs than comp players.

Quote #2:

Experienced players may want the fight and the item.

Newer/casual players could potentially care less about the boss, they want the item, but they can’t get it.

As for “boss trophies”, I assure you that stomping on a hard boss’ grave is reward enough for most players.

As for a more serious answer to that: sometimes the adventure is enough. It’s something that you’ve seen, something that you’ve conquered, something that you can lead your friends to and scare the daylights out of them all while saying that you managed to beat it.

Just like playing hide and seek or manhunt on the school playground, no material reward is wanted. Assuming that you find the activity enjoyable, the fun you’ve had is more than enough.

Quote #3:

What I’ve said still applies to endgame players, in my opinion.

There is a distinction though, I see this happen much more with new endgame players than experienced endgame players.

Quote #4:
Ohoho.

Brother, you have another thing coming if you think that old Wynn resonated with me and me alone, and I ain’t talking about the nostalgia component at all.

Socially fckd as I am, even I could tell that the sense of community that old Wynn offered was light years better than what we have now.

So many people were helping each other with quests and actual role play on the server took place (Hell, my timid a__ was even pulled into a sun cult where we all used fire weapons and threatened those who dared to oppose us).

Even though most of the time I did, It was so freaking rare to see someone playing alone by choice back then.

Nowadays most groups aren’t natural, they’re stuck-up, judgemental, and formed because they have to be formed to do certain content.

About the server’s survival, refer to my answer to the previous quote.

Quote #5:
Admittedly the tag of “trauma dump” was a generalization of what the “mood” of my original post was.

That being said, negative social interaction is a known breeding ground for trauma. A significant chunk of my motivation for writing the original post in the first place came from this, the constant “if you do/can’t do ____ you’re <insert insult string>” wears you down after a decade.

Also, I don’t mean to be offensive but why the heck are you so invested in a tag.

Quote #6:
…It’s quite easy for me to see it’s relevance in contrast, but I think you were fixated on the wrong thing.

I was referring to the forced grouping for difficulty.

“JuSt bE SocIAl lOl” and anything in that vein. It felt like you were saying that “This is an MMO, so suck your clinically-hard-to-fix social issues up”

 

You're not trying to "Consider the minorities" though. What you want is for ALL content to be geared towards you and people like you, which leaves out anyone else who wants to play the game differently. All of the "Hard bosses" you mentioned are completely optional endgame bosses that most players will never need to fight. Almost every boss in the game is fairly easy to beat, there needs to be something for people who want to be challenged.

If there's a specific piece of content that you don't like, you don't need to play it. The reason there's a wide variety of endgame content is to cater to a wider range of players.

 

We're making an MMORPG, not stardew valley. If a player is looking for a completely casual experience, Wynn just isn't for them. And clearly there is a playerbase for what we offer, given we're one of the largest servers.

The first bit of information when clicking my profile is "Female".

If you're not interacting with other players nowadays I find it hard to believe you would know anything about the community. That being said, players do play solo more often than not... and there's absolutely nothing wrong that. Questing is, and always has been, made for the solo player.

 

Spoiler

I brought it up because it's inappropriate enough that I wanted to see your response to determine whether it's worth to have a discussion or just leave it. I'm not interested in providing the perspective of someone making the game if every time I respond you're attempting to say I am invalidating disability or mental health.

You know absolutely nothing about me, which is already apparent by the fact you didn't even know the information available right there with just a click on a profile picture.

Spoiler

I don't like playing the Pity Olympics, nor does discussing this topic make me feel anything but uncomfortable (though I feel it necessary to make it clear why it's so frustrating) but you are talking to someone who is developmentally disabled - to the extent that a lot of my life needs the direct support of a caretaker - and has been on the receiving end of invalidation from almost every source you could think of.


Yes, I understand the feeling of not being accommodated to - very little in this life accomodates me - but you can't expect every space to be a place that's exactly for you.

If a place with trampolines was met with the criticism to remove them and replace them with something someone in a wheelchair could enjoy, then the entire audience of people who were coming explicitly for trampolines would be disappointed. You're asking for us to remove the trampolines, instead of looking at the more casual, less difficult content we provide for people who aren't (yet) skilled enough to do the harder stuff. Sure, it sucks knowing as the person in the wheelchair that you won't ever get to play on the trampoline, but taking that fun away from everyone else would just suck for everyone.

Would it be fair if I showed up in a restaurant and said that everyone there needed to stop talking and they needed to stop playing the music and they needed to dim the lights because otherwise I might become overstimulated and have a panic attack or something similar? No. It wouldn't, and I shouldn't dismantle that environment just so it'll be a place for me.

Does this mean I'm saying you should look somewhere else? Not necessarily. I think that if you're struggling in Wynn (or any other game like it), there's a lot of things you can do to practice to be better at the content you want to do. There's easy to put together builds like BURGER for more casual players to have a better entry into content that might be more difficult for them.
But if you're not finding any enjoyment anymore, I'd probably try playing something else. You can always come back to Wynn in the future and try your shot again and see if you enjoy it this time around, be that future in a week, a month, a year, or longer.
We've been going strong for over ten years now. There's a good chance we'll still be alive and kicking when you decide to return — so long as it isn't something ridiculous like thirty years into the future.

 

it's not a line - wynn (especially mage) was really hard in 1.20 in the early game, but all of the 'super powerful' bosses were easy (namely Qira. she was kind of a joke), then difficult in 2.0 while the rest of the game became majorly easier. Then in 2.1 the rest of the game got hard again.

________________________________

already is

________________________________

wynn toxicity DOES exist though that is the official stance on this thread i am taking
anyone who says otherwise is just lucky

 

Not me replying to myself, but I think I figured the issue out...

"When interacting, individuals adjust their behavior based on what they observe others doing. If enough people adopt similar attitudes and actions over time, a new and powerful social convention is established, which then influences the behavior of all group members."

Essentially, you're dealing with the "wave" effect that happens on stadiums. How one person raises their hands and then everyone follows to create a wave.

The issue is, the new social norms in the game are what is actually difficult for you, so you're blaming the game and its combat as the issue. Your emergent property is you're trying to adapt to a community that is very competitive on combat when you don't really know much about it. So, you're kinda making a tantrum because you do want to fit in but don't want to do the work to be recognized socially.

However, the issue doesn't ends there. You're also hesitant whether the change from roleplay to competitive combat in the community was good afterall. Part of it because you are complaining, but the other part actually makes a lot of sense to me. So, what you need to do is not follow the wave, but start the wave yourself.

If you want roleplay in the community, well, perhaps you can take a page of my book. I created my own guild for that motive, where we create myth based on cultures around the world.

Is that popular? No, it's actually based back when guilds were "kingdom" themed. So, I wanted to create different kingdoms based on cultures around the world that shared one same universe.

Did knowing it was not popular deter me? Not really, I wanted to recover with my own hands a part of the guild community that had been lost.

If you want roleplay, why are you not the one that starts the change instead of complaining? Why should others start it for you to frolic over?

In conclusion, the game is really not the issue you have, you just don't know who to blame for not knowing you can start the wave yourself. As I said in my initial post, wynncraft is quite sandbox in nature, you both create the gameplay you want AND the community you want. And, if unfortunately, roleplay communities aren't longer mainstream, well, you either find them or make them.

 

This is not what I was saying at all.

It’s ridiculous to believe all content should be geared to one “archetype” of player.

What I meant was that Wynn should have some sort of optional system that makes content possible for all types of players. Ideally this should be an aside to the base game, which is fine staying hard if a system like this exists.

To illustrate what I mean, here’s an Exp:
If you want the game to be challenging, literally do nothing. The game will stay as it is for you. Why would they spend effort to tie in to an accommodative system for niche players only to complain about it.

If you don’t want the game to be challenging, ask about and use the systems.

For further clarification that I probably should have provided in the first place: implement easy/normal/hard modes.

Difficulty could be based on baseline scaling of a player’s skill points. Only 3 baselines have to exist, in correspondence to the 3 difficulty settings. By scaling, for example, I mean that in “easy” mode str dex int def and agi could go up by something ridiculous like 3% per point initially (of course it will level off at higher investment, though not nearly as early as normal and hard mode will)

 

Quote #1/2:

It literally once was one of the most casual servers you could play until it did a 180 in recent years.

Quote #3:

…Sorry

Quote #4:

On the contrary, I would consider myself pretty involved in the community, without giving anything away.

 

Quote #1/2:

I have terrible clinical issues as well. But like you said, let’s not compare suffering or compete in the pity Olympics.

I had a lot bottled up and it seems you did too, but that discussion shouldn’t be going too deep on public forum posts. I think we should both stop talking about that here.

Quote #3:

It’s a good thing that this is a game, where we can change gravity for those with motor issues so they can bounce in line with everyone else, and give the person sensitive to overstimulation some bs force field that can alter incoming sensory info to a level manageable for them so they can enjoy the restaurant with everyone without ruining its atmosphere.

I was glued to this game for a long time. I practiced to the point where I can call this my second job and tried to change my circumstances on my own, but even if I somehow find success or still fail at completing some content, the time investment still doesn’t feel worth it at all.

On the build front, I am a class builder who has helped make builds for players in the past.

Here’s even one of my latest experiments:
https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CM0cVmW7iA1G+W10Ka0g0Qdm7lzov10Z2GxV-mUr5oC0
> Wynnbuilder build:
> Nighthawk
> Ornate Shadow Garb
> Gemini
> Takeoff
> Summa
> Fractured
> Atlas
> Contrast
> Air In A Can [a6t6t6]

Mixed mana leap-reliant boltslinger, thunder powders for basically a mana/health battery with chain lightning

Sorry if I seem pessimistic, but I really don’t think that leaving and coming back will make me rekindle a passion I once had.

________________________________

For the sake of everyone’s sanity I think we should give it a break for Halloween

 

This sounds to me like the game is intentionally designed to kill new players the first time they do something hard, and that is really bad design within the context of Wynncraft as a game. Using FFXIV as an example, when a raid boss hits you with a choreographed attack, it gives you a vulnerability debuff instead of killing you outright, allowing you to learn the attack patterns without just straightup losing and having to try again. And of course healers can revive you even if you do die. Monster Hunter also has difficult fights and they make you learn the attack patterns on the fly, but there are also very obvious cues when there's a move that's going to kill you if it hits and you get 3 faints before actually losing. Also this strange desire to counteract the lack of Soul Points is outstandingly silly because you should not have to compensate the game for the removal of one of the worst mechanics ever made. Player convenience is not a bad thing to have in games, especially in MMOs, and Wynncraft does have punishment for dying. In fact, it is more punishing to die in Wynncraft than it is for most other MMO games.
This would be like if when Warframe removed paying for revives, they also super-buffed every single enemy in the game to compensate. It would be ridiculous.

Also also I have said this multiple times but World Events being based around multiplayer is really dumb when you consider how they actually work in Wynncraft. In a game like Destiny, the moment you and someone are in the area of a Public Event, it starts with both of you in it, and other people can even join it late at any time. But in Wynncraft, not only can someone not join late, but the only way to join at all is to start a party and invite the other person, assuming of course they're even in the same area and server. Not to mention that it jarringly sucks your party into a pocket dimension where nobody else exists.

You say "this is an MMO" as justification for the nigh-forced multiplayer in world events but that sort of game design is not how actual MMOs work. Another example, Fates in FFXIV are essentially identical to WC world events, but again, they can be joined by anyone, late or not. And the kicker: They're completely doable solo with no problem. Good MMOs let you play events with other players on the fly seamlessly or solo, but world events in WC are limited to starting a party yourself, or searching for a party. That's not what MMOs do. That's more akin to, like, a horde shooter or something than an MMO.

The bottom line is, it's extremely dumb to design world events around multiplayer when it doesn't even tell you that in the solo-designed quest that introduces you to them; and even if it did, you still have to go through hoops and hurdles to even play with someone because of the dumb party requirement. May I add that the game to my knowledge never actually teaches new players how to make a party?
Naturally, whether a proper world event is possible in Wynncraft is another discussion entirely, but you cannot look at the way world events work in Wynncraft and say, "it's designed this way because Wynncraft is an MMO". That's not how MMOs are designed.

 

#1 Not even a roast but ofc the game does not feel good in endgame when you use something like that build. Its a boltslinger that does Little Damage. Im not even a meta slave but on boltslinger you should be doing a lot of damage or else what are you providing in a raid run to the team. Aswell as im not even saying you need to do 500k dps or something superhigh but on a build like that you might be doing the least damage in pfinder on boltslinger (When most likely should be doing the most or second most damage) so of course that does not feel good.

WynnBuilder Compare to this build which has about 1/2 the EHP but does probably 3x the damage. The damage ratio is important because Archer has the lowest base defence except Shaman so it is important to kill the mobs before they kill you. This is not super unaffordable either Just from doing quests or lootrunning whatever you prefer you could afford a build like this (It costs around 1stx of LE) that can destroy all content.

I understand that build you showed is not a mythic build but you might as well be using a mythic since they are so cheap now. Especially if the game is seeming difficult you should be using the more strong/OP builds so that it does not feel as difficult. With a build like that you are making the difficulty of the game more drastically noticeable.

If you want a real easy class that is actually pretty valued in endgame just go Guardian paladin warrior. Its pretty much impossible for them to die while still providing support although their damage is low of course.

 

I'm as anti-social as I can get but when I got stuck on hard boss, I just went to detlas on server with many people and asked 'looking for someone to help with X', and got help from random stranger within minutes. These days it's easier with party finder.

I also recommend going all in with either spell or melee, hybrid exists but requires specific items.

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CM0JVGt8uv237Gr2Kdmq2iJnU02
> Wynnbuilder build:
> Nephilim
> Tisaun's Valor
> Second Wind
> Burnout
> Flashfire Knuckle
> Breezehands
> Flashfire Gauntlet
> Tungsten
> Anthracite Ballista []

 

the lobby has command guides and i believe party is one of them

________________________________

also /help

 

I mean speaking as a guy who spends half his time hanging around deltas helping noobs, that’s more due to how nice some Wynn players are than a general game design aspect. The community could change overnight, and the game shouldn’t be balanced around people on the internet being helpful

 

The problem that I have with the freedom build is that it’s ehp is far too low.

As you said, this build seems fully geared to kill stuff before you die yourself, but that ain’t exactly a safe strategy. I bet that with this build, someone would tend to die more times themself, especially in a “bullet hell” environment like a raid.

Kill them before they kill you, and they can kill you before you kill them. Fights probably take 10 seconds to win or lose. I have drastically opposing views on how a boss fight should be compared to how Wynn wants them to be apparently.. but putting both of those perspectives into consideration, that type of fight just doesn’t sound like it’s a good one, or that it was meant to be designed that way.

My build philosophy is to have builds reliably survive boss attacks while also doing enough damage so the fight wouldn’t wear down your stamina. Viable mana and life sustain should also be factored in, and no, health pots don’t consider the “sustain” part of life sustain.

 

I’d still rather be able to do things solo, even the hard stuff.

And funny enough.. I used this build before lol

I tried to do the war machines world event but the build didn’t have the tankiness nor the damage for it

Even though I killed the minions contributing additional dps asap and circle strafed the hell out of the 2 big machines all while holding down rclick for a constant stream of health from lifesteal, the dps the 2 big bots did managed to pierce that heal barrier significantly so I had to down quite a bit of health pots.

There was arena nukes that happened twice when the big bots each got to low health, and that blew through my hp from full most of the times except for the run where my agility procked on both nukes.

Luck was the only reason I won that fight once…

 

Every endgame archer uses health pots that's why they are in the game. Archer is the squishiest class and unlike shaman it cannot heal itself. It is one of the classes that benefits the most from potions. If you aren't using pots that explains a lot of the discrepancy of the responses. The game is not designed around no potion gameplay. All archers hop into raids/anything difficult with health pots if you are choosing not to use them you are nerfing yourself. Potions for you are even more valuable since you want to play solo.

#1 You want to play solo but you are not using the tools the game gives to do that (Health Potions)
#2 You are playing a dps class while trying to be tanky

21k EHP without tomes is pretty high on archer the most you are gonna get on a even decent build is 30k. Why even use archer class if you are going to want 45k EHP. Archer gives itself speed for a reason so that you can kite the boss and dodge attacks. if you want an easier class try paladin warrior (Guardian) they are actually valuable in all content and do good damage for how much support they give (My guard solos everything including Annie 80kEHP). The playstyle you are asking for is there but just not on archer. If you are stuck on wanting to be an archer, you could use something like this WynnBuilder (The damage is not great for archer but its at least not absolutely horrible also being only 12k ehp lower than your other build). Or if you want to abandon good damage in raids completely you could use this WynnBuilder (This wouldnt be bad in nest of the grootslang since hes weak to fire.

I think you should just try Paladin (Guardian) it is specifically made to be a lower skill required and its actually good.