The New Update is NOT P2W (GOOD READ)

hi im mav, and i used to have a crippling addiction to video games, especially p2w ones.

starting this off with a some background: i have spend thousands of dollars on videogames, but what really was the heaviest hitter was p2w minecraft servers (specifically ones that reset and using money gives you a huge advantage on the first few days of a reset). what made them p2w: the ability to gain an advantage over others through money. example: buying crates to get better gear, the gear was used on OTHER players, leading to a compounding effect of spend = win. this dynamic was highly addicting, and caused me to spend unworldly amounts of money on such game. so i'm a bit experienced in this genre to say the least.

there is absolutely nothing that is added that falls under the definition of p2w refer to anything bolded being an explanation, and i'll break it down using this post as a guideline of changes [https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/everything-pay-to-win-in-the-new-update.322145/]


- Base character slots are being reduced to 5. Number of slots for each class. What is the issue with this? How do you WIN by having a sixth slot?

- Ranked players (which ranks aren't stated) gain ability points faster. Slightly P2W, level scaling in raids yada yada. Not crazy though, changes cap from 80 to 104, which if a build is created, could beat out endgame builds using the level scaling plus the extra points: this had no reason to be added :)

- Ranked players (which ranks aren't stated) can now warp to world events. Literally just QOL??

- VIP has lost it's additional trade slots. Odd change, but not P2W
- Champion now has 20 trade slots. Champion is $171 btw

- Hero & Hero+ now have a priority queue time for worlds. QOL, worlds rarely full unless gathering bombs are thrown.
- Champion now has "super priority queue." $171 rank btw

- Added Gathering Totems (nodes will have a 30% chance to double their material given.) Same principle as mob totems.
- Hero+ & Champions now have daily Gathering Totems. Same principle as mob totems.

- Item Bombs now give a tier 4 loot chest. the entire world benefits
- Ingredient Bombs now give 16 ingredients. the entire world benefits

- Added Loot Chest Bombs (all loot chests have their drop rate greatly boosted) the entire world benefits

- Added XP Tokens, these give a minor xp boost and ways to obtain them are unclear. (Not bought directly) unclear weather this is purchased or not

bundling all of this together:

Wynncraft is a business, it needs to make money, this is their way of having endgame players give them a constant stream of cash. As Salted explained, back way back when bombs did this: now these serve that purpose. Do I agree that this a huge thing to take in? Yes, do I think it can be balanced? Yes, this is the only real pay to win thing added.


- Added Raid or Lootrun Daily Bonus Refresh Tokens (Up to 3 times.)
- Raid and Lootrun daily reward bonuses now give a free reward pull. (When read with the above perk, it's obviously being done to further buff Refresh Tokens, but is presented as a general quality of life change.)

- Added Tracker Reroll Tokens (Rerolls shiny's to a different tracker)
- Added Tracker Reset Tokens (Resets a shiny's tracker)
- Added more Trackers (This is again painted as a nice additional feature, however with the above changes, it makes it seem like it's to delude the Tracker tree, so getting a specific one cost more.)

conclusion:

This update is not P2W, you guys dont know what Pay to WIN is. This is locking QUALITY OF LIFE features behind a paywall.

to the content team: love yall, keep working on fruma <3

 

You are wrong about 3 things. First, the xp tokens are bought but it’s like “buy our bundle for 6 combat bombs 5 crates and 10 tokens” type thing, which is kinda worse. Second, taking away features r that used to be free and making them paid is scummy. Third, LR and RAID tokens are objectively pay to win, as you get better rewards only for yourself, for money. Other than this, I agree

 

I just wanna come in and say that I don't believe people are upset now that it's 5 slots, people were upset that it was as low as 3, not even giving f2p players the ability to play 1 of each class. While perhaps not pay to win, It was most definitely a scummy practice to get rank purchases. I think 5 is good, gives players the ability to try 1 of each class, after that point, it would be up to the player to decide if they should purchase a rank for more slots or not. I don't have a particular opinion on the other additions, loaned AP doesn't sound horrendous so long as by the endgame (104-106) a ranked player & f2p player would have the exact same.

Shiny tokens sound good on paper, as it lets the individual roll for the tracker they want. The economy around Shiny Mythics will also see some improvements in that "Original" ones will be highly sought after by people, allowing those to be sold at higher prices compared to rerolled Shinies

 

Something being $171 does not make it not pay to win.

 

I like how most of this is "I'm okay with this, even if it is pay to win, so you should be too"
Saying "It's 171 dollar rank", "same principle" (as another pay to win feature), "slightly pay to win" doesn't make any of them not pay to win.

Also, people have this dumb, skewed, pedantic argument with whats pay to win, because you don't literally win.
When someone calls something pay-to-win, they don't literally mean that you pay and then win the game, hell that's not even what the dictionary says the definition is:


And please don't respond with "iT's nOT a CoMPetItivE GAmE!!"
Just because a game isn't competitive doesn't mean it's incapable of being a pay-to-win game, it's just a dumb definitions argument. EVERYONE ELSE knows what someone means when they say pay-to-win, you can try and argue about the definition to defend it, it doesn't matter, it won't change what people think about what's being added, even if you were "technically" correct. (Which you aren't.)

Note: If this is rage bait then I could kinda tell, but decided to take it seriously because you never know now days.

 

Wynncraft quite literally makes NO money. Salted could literally be working at McDonalds and have more money for himself. But he has chosen to continue working on this server for the community, he needs a living wage. He realized that the server was too generous with what was given out, and he needs an easy way to monetize it. I agree, LR and RAID tokens are P2W, but its like skyblock gems in hpsb, the devs need cashflow.

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Quite literally, teleporting to a world event is does not give you any advantage over others LMAO. Champion should give some huge benefits over others due to its crazy pricetag. It's adding an incentive to purchase it.

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The whole principle of Minecraft ranks on ANY server is adding QUALITY OF LIFE. This update, adds a decently overpowered *pay to win* booster, that is IT. This is blown out of proportion. If EVERYTHING could be grinded, no endgame player would buy it, who is their target audience as they spend the least money on Wynn.

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The re-rolls are upsetting, especially for the people who collected them. But this SAME situation happened in hpsb with exotics and dyes. I believe there should be a re-roll tag (there probably will be) and it is the EXACT same thing. I hope you realize what Wynn did just now is see Hypixel, see what they're doing, and try to monetize it similarly so they can have MORE money for Fruma.

 

2/10 rage bait

 

people thinking this is rage bait shows how fucked up this community is. this is an update that wynn genuinely needs for it to be sustainable.

 

This is a strawman argument here. Just because devs need cashflow doesn't make this not p2w. Definitely several times more justified than generic PvP server #1342, but still p2w. Refreshing the bonuses you get still increases the overall rewards you get, and does allow for faster progression.

It very much does, as it essentially acts as a unique web of fast travel for useful out-of-the-way places that ordinary players can't access. Champion should absolutely have a lot more cosmetic benefits compared to other ranks, but gameplay benefits crosses a line as it turns more into "pay money, make game easier".

Players would absolutely buy things that make the grind easier. Going back to said PvP server #1342, let's say they have a crate that has a 0.1% chance of dropping a super OP set of armor that can normally be obtained through gameplay. A player could get a set of 1,000 crates for $100 (about a 63% chance to get it) or spend 2,000 hours grinding on the server. What would be the most common option for most players on said PvP server? I sure as hell wouldn't have enough time to grind 2,000 hours. People tend to take the easier route with a whole lot of things. Wynncraft isn't too different from generic PvP server #1342 in this regard. Players would still buy stuff to accelerate progression if they have the means to achieve it.

My overall feeling towards this thread can be found in the first line of Jaydon's reply above.

 

Except for regular fast travel to almost anywhere at no cost and never missing a world event, both of which are pretty massive advantages, especially giving how profitable world events can be at endgame for the amount of time.

 

Maybe you get teleported back where you were after world event

 

3, actually (unless it changed that fast)

A level 80 ranked player build being better than a 104 free player build is p2w

it's not just qol. If scrolls didn't have charges and there were scrolls for every tiny little town, it would ALMOST be there.

easier access to WE exclusive items on ironman

 

I should note that world event warp does (or should/is intended to) only work for the region you're in. If you want to go to Shapes in the Dark, you must be in SE to warp
Additionally, I want it to consume a scroll charge (if it doesn't already)

that's all the input I'll provide on this thread

 

How is this different from a combat XP bomb? Are you still sobbing about that?

Oh my god, you people are absurd. COSMETICS? FOR $171 FUCKING DOLLARS??????? ARE YOU SHITTING ME???? Yes! Pay money and make the game easier, its called QUALITY. OF. LIFE.

That argument is totally wrong. You still need to play Wynn and get lucky using the tokens, you arent buying chests w/o playing the lootrun...

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It literally saves you TIME. It literally changes your button clicking from: nearest town --> speed set. To click chat message.

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It changed.

I said I agree this is P2W, no justification for this to be added. Quite literally does nothing but bs the game.

Brother, its quality of life. You dont warp and get triple loot LMAO.

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This makes it super fair / balanced imo. How big will the radius be, if you know.

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Seriously, if you only got cosmetics for ranks

 

When I wrote that post, I was under the impression that ranked players would be able to freely teleport to world events without time (still unclear) or region restrictions. You wouldn't get triple loot, you would just get to be in time for more world events, which is a strict advantage, like it or not.

 

It's not radius based, it's region based. If you're in the region the world event is tied to, then you're able to teleport

 

quality of life is not pay to win buckaroo. cope that you are satly that you wont be able to do it and other people will. if you want it? buy a rank.

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Thats a super fair quality of life feature that is needed. Its a pain to go to world events unless very near them.

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if we really look at who likes and doesn't like the update, its mostly clear that its champion vs everyone else, and a few anomalies.

 

tbh I was mostly just upset about the player slots thing, the rest, while it is by definition p2w(gives an advantage to those who have a rank), it isn't a big enough difference to be super upset about imo. Not a fan of the ability point thing but stuff like teleporting to a world event is qol. Of course there is the argument about where that line between qol and cheating falls(for more information see terraria qol mods), but I don't think we're at that point.

I play wynncraft to have fun. I don't care if someone else is getting somewhere faster than me or making more money per hour because quite frankly I don't care about just the rewards. There's this MMO mindset that rushing the endgame is the best thing you can do, that its all about how much money you can get, and I've seen it creeping into wynn more and more over the years. I think there's plenty of enjoyment to be had in doing the activity itself! This seems to be a motivation difference between "doing things for the enjoyment of doing them" and "doing things because I want to get something", and I may be in the minority with caring more about the former, which these changes don't really apply to.

...Maybe I also just played this game more when there were less rewards in place and am used to that. That could also be part of it.

 

Just heard that the teleport is a 20 min cooldown, not crazy: just something nice to have when a world event you wants pop up. Qol mods, especially in hpsp is just what they're called so Discord doesn't take down their servers. The last paragraph you said is peak. Wynn is one of those games where there isnt jack shit to do besides play it, theres no benefit to a trillion LE, unlike hpsb where theres exotics, skins, random shit you dont need thats super expensive, etc etc. Wynn shouldn't be played for the LE, if you do, play hpsb... thats a game where your coins matter a LOT more than LE does in Wynn. The reason Wynn fails is because it's ALL gambling, theres no perfect mythics: meaning collecting things is difficult, an absurd am mount of money doesnt become needed. I can breakdown Wynn's endgame fully and show it's flaws and shit yada yada but honestly you play it because you enjoy the content. Fruma could have a use for LE (it will), but it's not like SB where its a rare item (worth a few bil) or a rare item AND an ID. It's super complicated but in all honesty Wynn is built so greatly where you DONT need a trillion LE to have the best shit. You dont need 50k hours for FULL endgame, you need like 5 if you speedlevel. It's build so well its amazing how the devs pulled it off. It's a perfect mix of content and replay ability. They just need to create a reason to replay it (Fruma will give this probably).

Wow. That's a rant.

 

"It's not pay to win, it's just something that gives you an advantage that you can only do if you pay. All the people who already paid have no problem with that, it's just all the people who are automatically disadvantaged unless they shell out north of 150 bucks that don't like that."