Guide Mythic Stat Order Guide

buuuuuuuuuuuuuump

 

after 20 days of mastering the art of procrastination, I have reworked Dagger weightings.

 

bumpity bump, looking into changing the weights of spell costs due to the change in how they're rolled.

 

Rebalanced the weightings of every Mythics that contain a Spell cost ID, and also added some walk speed weighting on Fatal.

 

Bumpity bump

 

bump again

 

Some of the stats are wrong, for example sunstar has main attack damage RAW but it is listed here as %

 

Woops should be fixed now

 

I personally feel there is a level of inconsistency here that should be addressed. Discoverer is an item that nobody cares about the xp bonus at all as it's only used for loot bonus. Naturally because of this loot bonus is by far the most important stat and the weight here reflects that with the loot bonus being 99% and the xp bonus being 1%. When you look at another mythic like Cataclysm on the other hand you have the thorns and stealing both being the stats people don't care about, but unlike with Discoverer instead of being weighted 1% each they are 0%. Sure neither of those stats matter, but a Cata with more thorns than another one with otherwise identical stats shouldn't be considered the same, when they aren't. I haven't taken the time to check every single mythic so I don't know what other items are inconsistent here, but I feel even "worthless" stats for the item in question need to consistently carry some weight, even if it is so little that it is basically negligible(just like you did with Disco having 1% weight on the xp bonus).

 

Hey! Discoverer is an item with only 2 identifications, unlike cataclysm. We needed a way to weigh discoverer that didn't only rely on loot bonus, to avoid all 200LB discoverers being equally weighed, thus making them all #1. Basically, yes, loot bonus is the only desirable stat, but xp bonus holds a miniscule weight which effectively means that discoverers with equal loot bonus have different weight values, depending on the overall Wynntils percentage. We could have phrased it as (99% loot bonus, 1% overall percentage) but having xp bonus hold the 1% weight achieves the same without needing to bring values that are not IDs into play.

 

Your argument as for why you have it that way on Discoverer is exactly why I'm saying it should also be applied to items like Cataclysm(and many more), but you're only applying it to Discoverer because of an arbitrary reason(that being the total number of identifications the item has). You didn't want all Discoverers that had the max of the only stat you would realistically care about(loot bonus) being equally weighed, which is fair, but every Cataclysm with the same thunder damage and health will be equally weighed even though they have different thorns and stealing values. I'm saying this is a flaw with the current system, and should be corrected in a way that is consistent with all items. The system needs to be consistent, or it's inherently flawed. Additionally if an item can have a perfect score, but there is potentially a better version out there then it doesn't deserve that perfect score.

Lets create a hypothetical Mythic item for a moment. Lets say tomorrow they added a mythic helmet with 40-65% loot bonus, 15-35% soul point regen, 1-5% thorns, and 1-5% reflection. Here's an item with 4 identifications(unlike Discoverer) but 1 of them is literally worthless, and 2 of them are stats you have ignored entirely for the ID weights on some items but not on others(Grimtrap can have up to 91% thorns and it literally doesn't factor into your system, but Sunstar's up to 39% thorns and Idol's up to 39% reflection do). If you were to ignore all these "worthless" stats it creates the same issue you brought up with Discoverer where all max roll loot bonus items will be weighed equally no matter what the other stats are. If the soul point regen, thorns, and reflection were each given a miniscule weight(and this system were to be applied to ALL items) it would not realistically affect what items are truly better than each other from appearing to be so, but it would make it to where everything was more consistent and the only way to have a mythic with a value of 100 was if it had a literal perfect roll.

Your explanation of why you all applied that 1% value to the xp bonus on Discoverer instead of having it be the overall percentage makes sense, but it needs to be something you do for EVERY item, and not just this one.

In the thread compiling all the #1 mythics, there are 5 items(technically 4 as there is a 100 score Az for water and a separate 100 score Az for fire) that have been credited with a score of 100, despite them not actually being the best possible, and it makes no sense for them to be considered "perfect" when they COULD be better. For example the Water Az would be more powerful if it ALSO had a max roll on fire damage(yes I know that Az with water powders has no fire damage, but arrow storm does fire damage, and depending on how you spec the ability tree you might have a small amount of fire damage applied to basic attacks all the time anyway).

I present you a simple solution, that mirrors what you did for Discoverer and would apply a level of consistency that doesn't create false perfect scores like your current system. Take every stat you currently don't apply any weight to, and split a 1% value up between them. This would apply the 1% "overall percentage" weight to every item in a manner that doesn't require you to use a non-ID value. As an example: for Cataclysm you could have it be Health (80%) > Thunder Damage (19%) > Thorns (0.8%) > Stealing (0.2%). This would turn the current #1 Cataclysm that has a score of 100 into a 99.192, and would open the floor for other people with a max roll on health and thunder damage, but a higher thorns and/or stealing to claim the #1 Cataclysm spot.

 

Discoverer's xp bonus weight, and spring's thunder weight is a running joke in the TM community for quite a long time now. While it is not necessary for us to put them onto the list due to the way we calculate #1s (Weights > overall > rr), there's no harm in doing so.

Comparing grimtrap's thorn to idol's thorn and sunstar's reflection is like comparing apples to oranges, due to their respective class's ability to convert those stats to mana in the ability tree.

Lastly, I'd also like you to consider the ease of calculating weightings, and to not make it too hard for me to have to maintain this thread.
This is the reason why I'm against adding stats that hold a weighting of less than 1%, or having stats with a weird decimal which would make it hard to calculate, which would lead to (more mistakes than there already are in this thread), and lead to slip ups while calculating the weightings as well.

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PS: I do agree with this though, and I'll add it in asap

 

The reason is not arbitrary, we only really applied that logic to discoverer as we already know there are more than a few max lb discoverers. Double max cataclysm is significantly harder to roll than a max lb disco, and to my knowledge there is only one (public one at least) currently.

We would use the same logic of having loot bonus hold a high weight, followed by overall, giving each identification weight would only complicate things. This ONLY works with disco which has only one "flavour stat" alongside its loot bonus main stat.

Fair point, we did do that for spring's thunder damage which has a very minimal effect on combat (which was also helpful serving as a tiebreaker since there are more than one effectively perfect springs).

I'd argue an even simpler solution would be to just delete that altogether. Everyone is aware that effectively perfect mythics are further ranked by their overall wynntils percentage, so the xp bonus weight is unnecessary. That said, its a harmless funny addition that achieves exactly what it was supposed to, so there's not really a reason to change anything.

 

Shouldn't mana steal almost not matter in full-spell weapons with the 2.0 update? Mana steal doesn't get triggered anymore with spells. For example with collapse or nirvana?

 

if you left click you get mana even if you do 2 damage (right click for archer)

 

I don't think mana steal ever procced from spells, but in most spells rotations, you sneak in some melees in order to keep a sustainable mana consumption, or in order to build up mana steal/powder

 

I heard it procced on spells pre gavel, so things like multi hit would be busted with mana steal.

 

Oh yeah that did happen, but it hasn't recently though

 

whats with the walls of text lmao

ranking mythics:
primary stats -> secondary stats ->overall -> weak stats
cata example
health > thunder damage > overall > thorns and stealing

no need to hyper fixate on literal 1% weighted stats when they are effectively only used in tiebreakers to compare identical mythics, as seldom as they are

 

Who put 40% life steal on Div :skull: