Ability Points feel too restrictive

Okay, so maybe I'm just missing the point. But 45 APs does not feel like enough points for this ability tree to work. It feels way too restrictive because you're forced to be extremely conservative with how you spend your APs and which path you take. You can barely branch off a little. 65 APs feels more natural to me. Would be enough to keep you in line while giving the player some freedom.
Can someone please explain to me why I am wrong?

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By the way, I am not saying the system is terrible! I love the new update. All I'm doing is giving my opinion and asking for clarifications.

 

maybe cuz too strong... but future updates that add more levels should give a few

 

I completely understand your frustration - ability points can and do feel like a restriction on the player's builds and something that limits your playstyle options, however granting that many ability points would yield massive damage and ehp to players with the right builds.

 

What about this: they nerfe every ability but give the player more AP

 

You're giving an opinion, so we can't really say you are factually incorrect, but I'll try anyway

I disagree with what the others said about it being broken to get more ability points or nerfing everything but giving more ability points though.

Funnily enough, if everybody had more ability points, there would less of a decision to be made by the players (fewer possible different ability trees assuming you use up all ability points), which in a way would actually reduce player freedom (less impactful choices -> less freedom)

You say "which path you take" but I would like to argue that you do not need to finish a certain path. You can take two or even three paths without finishing one.
However, doing this is made more difficult by two factors:
- certain abilities require some amount of abilities in their archetype
and
- each class has three archetypes, one to the right, one in the middle, and one on the left. It's much more difficult to go between left and right than it is to subclass with the middle archetype.

The first seems like it can easily be solved by either lowering some requirements or making more upgrades contribute to an archetype / some upgrades contribute to several archetypes. Thing is, they have this restriction partially for balancing reasons but I also like that sometimes to get a powerful upgrade you really want you need to take an upgrade you don't care about that much over one you want more.

The second is the bigger issue in my eyes. Not only does it cost alot more ability points to cross-class between the leftmost and the rightmost archetype, the fact that some abilities require some amount of abilities in their archetype (and that you can only upgrade to the side or down, not up from abilities) means that the gap between the leftmost and rightmost archetype can often not be crossed without also getting middle upgrades elsewhere. This is a huge investment cost for wanting just one or a few upgrades from another class. Not to speak of when certain abilities require other abilities like Focus on archer which just shuts down cross-classing between boltslinger and trapper.

This can be solved by making some connections between right and left.

That might give some need for rebalancing (i.e. because in this example both boltslinger and trapper get upgrades to arrow storm so this would make it easier to get the ultimate arrow storm) but this is my proposed solution for feeling too restricted.

It would also really help to have the upgrades that require other upgrades to not be in the way between the left and the right side.

 

me when 2.0 adds 3 unique archetypes to each class with infinitely even more customisation ability but feels too restrictive :exploding_head:

 

Wraparound connections are a really nice idea, you should make a suggestions post about it if you haven't already.

 

The two archetypes on left and right side very intentionally dont connect. You are meant to have to spend more AP if you want to mix the two marginal archetypes

 

That just sounds like making things less interesting with minimal justification. There's no good design reason for them to not connect from what I can see of the archetype designs (although this is clouded by several of the classes just not having good archetype designs, I suppose).

 

i'm not sure if more ability points is the answer, but i'd definitely like to see certain class's trees get tweaked to allow more wiggle room in mixing archetypes. mage's, for example, feels pretty restrictive due to the placements/archetype requirements of really important nodes, but i think warrior's tree is pretty good at this.

there's also the problem that some archetypes just Fucking Suck which doesn't help your options

 

This is what you could do with 65 ap



(For those who dont know the Warrior tree: this gives you:
extra defence under 20% hp, an extra life, knockback immunity, a 5 hit shield, Whirlwind Strike, Corrupted mode, enraged blow, Ragnarokkr (30% damage and 20% def buff) and Intoxicating Blood (heals after you come out of corrupted, depending on how many mobs you kill)
Now you understand why 45 is the max. And before you say "just block some abilities" then you would have excess ap that you could only put into useless abilities or ones you really don't want.

Constraints are good for a game believe it or not. If you're in creative and build with diamond blocks and kill everything with 1 command the game gets boring very, very quickly.

 

I feel like 45 was chosen so that when fruma/dern come out as lvl 105+ areas, the player level cap can go up to 120 or something with 50 AP max. might not happen but wouldn't surprise me at all

 

copied me :sad:

 

Cuz each archetype can make a difference (mainly strong). Imagine some guy running with 2 completed archetypes, doing thousands of damage with no effort

 

Do you mean millions of damage with no effort? Thousand, tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of damage can currently be achieved pretty easily.

 

exactly