I get it, wynncraft does not have a place for players who suck at the game.

chiming in a bit late, but i don't quite understand why this is a controversial topic-

simply put, i don't think the one actual reward for going through the extreme grind that is (gathering) professions should be easily or even at all available elsewhere, especially not in a place where's it's more of a bonus side reward than anything. sure, professions are really not very fun for most people and they don't require any particular skill, but i think it's quite rude and dismissive to just brand it as therefore being not 'worthy' of actually having some rewards for going the long, long mile of leveling your professions.

of course that's not saying that acquiring certain things shouldn't become easier over time, especially not if the argument is about "people used to suffer so in the future people should always continue suffering", but i don't think it's fair to just give proffers the middle finger and tell them it's their fault they spent time doing profs to lose any form of actual separate reward (currently in the form of it being required to obtain mats for making the best crafted gear)

tl;dr if you just straight up think non-combat gameplay should never be worth doing just say so bruh

 

Those CT members should be fired or at least barred from designing rewards. The whole mentality of nerfing moneymaking avenues and nerfing of specific pieces of endgame content within the CT needs to be discarded immediately. When I came back in mid 2019 to find out that quest rewards and item buyering was nerfed to the ground to boost shitty minecraft runescape, I was absolutely livid and probably wouldn't have stayed after reaching level cap like so many other players have. It really is heartbreaking to see some CT members wanting to nerf a fun, difficult, and replayable piece of content to the ground. It is even more concerning since the wealth gap between average endgame players and the mythic market moguls is still astonishing. Even though this will likely fall on deaf ears I hope that segment of the CT and devs recognize that they finally got some of the MMO endgame loop right and that they don't destroy its rewards like they have in the past with other activities.

 

actually why don't we have dislikes

 

I will dislike whichever suggestion asks to implement dislikes.

 

The main issue is the time required to gear up and go do a few rounds of TNA takes WAY less than gathering a few materials? Not to mention that players can directly ignore the time required to level up their gathering to acquire these materials.

Additionally, the reward is quite good already with unique items and emerald blocks, each raid don't even take that long to complete, and it only gets shorter and easier after HP complaints

(Well in all honesty though, would be nice if more gimmicky items from raid can be dropped,,,)

 

you arent really getting my point

lets completely ignore "this money making method is boring or not" for this

with a proper team(people with guards, divzers, etc - aka the rich people), you can clear tna easily in 7mins or less

with a random or the average tna team on pfinder, you are very much likely to just fail the raid, but if you're lucky and do beat it anyways, tna will be cleared in around 20mins or higher, people with no mythics or experience will be forced to do this if they want to try out tna
-you will only make a tiny bit of money or no money at all. You'll be forced to hope that you queue with a guard or quetz solo or something

my point is: the people with prebuilt teams who are already rich will make a hella lot of money from tna, whilst you can nowhere make the same amount of money as them with a random team on pfinder. aka its only a viable money making method for a select few, whilst destroying another one in the process

I do believe that t3 dernic mats should be removed from the loot pool, but nerfing the loot pool overall shouldnt. I believe it should still be a good money making method as its a good piece of endgame content that involves combat

also if youre proffing or lring just watch a documentary or something on the side, i have no idea how you'd stay sane

edit: nvm you can't get t3 oil meat or grains from tna (oil is the most commonly gathered and sold dernic mat so proffers wont be screwed, tna runners can still make an extra buck from selling other t3 mats so its a win-win situation if they dont nerf the overall loot pool), ignore me saying t3 dernic mats should be removed from the reward pool

 

HP isn’t the only factor for how hard a boss is, and Greg’s HP was buffed after it got nerfed to 16 million on top of additional buffs. I really don’t get why you’re so dismissive of the raid difficulty wise. Most players have been consistently saying it’s the hardest raid yet; even if it’s easy for you doesn’t mean it’s easy for everyone else. You can’t just say something is easy bc it only takes 20 to 30 minutes.

If you really want materials gone from the pool then it is what it is, but don’t further nerf the raid rewards overall. One of the biggest flaws with raids when they were introduced in 1.20 was their lackluster rewards, and now that we have a raid with better rewards it’s frustrating to hear people say to just nerf the rewards overall.

 

how difficult the greg is, is heavily dependant on the people you queue with

if youre with people who zoom around the arena and summon too much greater ones by falling into void holes - its pretty darn hard

but if youre with a guard who genuinely makes greg stand still in a corner, the boss becomes ridiculously easy

this applies to any raid imo

 

(can vouch for stay sane part, people I know that prof a ton watch anime and movies on the side)

 

I get what you mean however doesn’t that apply to lootrunning, ing grinding and mythic grinding?

For lootrunning you’re bound to get faster times if you use optimizers like wynntils and have gear like warp moontower or resu idol. Additionally you’ll average more mythics with better lq gear and a disco

Item grinding methods same thing, you have a huge advantage with lb+lq, efficient weapon like toxo and also mob totems + loot bombs.

Sure, random party queue probably isn’t gonna land you optimal times but if you assemble a team of friends who are coordinated and experienced with good non-mythic builds you’re going to be almost as efficient as with mythics (the dps difference isn’t that big)

So i’d argue relatively speaking mythic vs non mythic tna is a lot more equal than for example mythic vs non mythic lootrunning, just to name an example.

 

what I think makes it different is that you need a team of people to do tna

unlike item grinding and lootrunning, it isn't really something you can wake up and do instantly.
Theres a lot of things that could prevent you from assembling a good team you can do tna with- whether or not you have friends, whether or not you're in a guild, your timezone, etc.
you don't really need to worry about these things when you're lootrunning or something since you are doing it alone, you can do it whenever you want
I do agree that mythic vs non-mythic tna is much more equal than the rest, I just thought of guard as a major advantage since its the only thing that can make greg stand still and barely cast any spells without much effort (except when it goes into watched), but other than that you'll need more skill to do it non-mythic

 

try telling one member of the lootrunner discord that you can lootrun by yourself i give you five seconds before they tell you how many of their runs get sniped

 

I meant that they can do a lootrun by themselves without the need or assistance of anyone else
someone sniping a lootrun that they are doing is completely different

 

Yes lootrunning is a group activity :)

 

The thing is I spent many hours of my life grinding up to be able to get those mats and sell them with the express knowledge that I would be able to sell them and make money, so having them become easily obtainable not only negates all the hours I spent grinding my profs up, but it also completely neuters my only way to make money, not every likes lootrunning. Imagine if this shit happened to something like the LI medallion or something like that, some people spent hours grinding for it and then: BOOM, little johnny who got carried through LI with Morph got the Medallion because RNG, thats how it is for us proffers.

 

as someone who has an li medallion i would not care very much if this happened, i didnt get it so i could get mad about other people not "deserving" it as much as me

but more relevantly i feel like you can apply this argument to people who want better tna rewards just as well, a lot of people have spent countless hours trying to get better at building and at combat and there still hasnt really been a good in-game reward for that the way there is for people who spent countless hours lootrunning or proffing instead
especially if what someone said about dernic oil above is true and proffers still get the most valuable material to themselves i dont really see the problem with giving this reward to people who want to invest their time into combat

 

Please someone explain this "yada yada we need materials among TNA rewards because those players beat one of the hardest challenges in the game yada yada" mentality.

It's almost as if there was nothing else to reward those players with. Emeralds? More runes? More powders? Things almost everyone use; actually relevant to raids? As if! Why not give them the highest possible rewards for leveling up gathering professions as a little side bonus, that're redundant to the majority of raiders, and at most would be sold for a few emerald blocks only?

SURE, people who beat TNA invested time too into achieving that. Yet for the "SAME" time invested, gatherers only get more or less the same ammount of the T3 materials that raiders do, but none of the other rewards such as the emeralds, runes, tomes or powders. In fact, they get even less emeralds now. Because the prices of the only items they could legit profit off have dropped.

 

An incredible clusterfuck! Presented by Knee-Jerk Incorporated!

Anyway, although I have not done the raid and I don't know the rewards, I feel I can safely say with all of the shit I have seen on this thread that nerfing the reward pool overall is a dumb fucking idea. Pre-2.0 moneymaking is a shitshow. Either you endlessly grind profs or click chests into oblivion, maybe there is a brave soul or 2 out there that runs forgery, so adding ways to make large amounts of money that isn't ridiculously grindy/tedious/gatekept by motherfucking discord is a really good thing and it would be absolutely foolish to nerf it.

As an aside I feel like the economy as a whole is overrated and shouldn't be as big of a focus in the game as it is so I guess we're all just clowns?

 

Agree with all this and I also want to point out; people are complaining about how the TNA le rewards are going to inflate the economy or something as if we haven’t been in constant deflation for the past 2 years because wynn has so many money sinks implemented

 

I don’t really have an opinion on this since I don’t do crafting, but I find it pretty funny that the answer to feedback that professions are boring seems to be making them unnecessary rather than making them less boring. I get why that is - redesigning an entire system is a lot harder than just adding alternative pathways and a lot of dev time was taken by 2.0 - but it’s still funny.