Champion Is Pretty Fair And Should Be In The Game - Change My Mind

In addition to the highly heated thread that's already been posted here, there have been lots of opinions thrown around on why Champion rank is a bad idea. However, I think it's completely fair and should be in the game, and if you think otherwise feel free to change my mind. Keep it civil.

I realize that most (? not sure, I haven't asked everyone on this) people feel this way already, but I just wanna make sure that we're all on the same page.

I will not be talking about the whole "Champions sliding into normal slots" thing, as that's more of a bug than an intended game mechanic, and will probably be fixed in the next hotfix.

Champion should stay because it provides the CT with money to upgrade servers and make necessary purchases (maybe we'll get wybel plushie one day). No matter how much money is actually being made off of it, as long as it doesn't have a huge negative impact on gameplay it should stay.

 

Oh boy this'll be interesting.

 

obviously champion should stay in the game, tons of people have already bought it. the only problem with champion that makes it noticeably unfair is the bomb bell, which should definitely get changed/removed. the other things about champion are just QOL/cosmetic changes and advantages that dont affect any other player.

 

Is there a reason the bomb bell is unfair? I think it's pretty fair.

 

its not exactly the most gamebreaking mechanic, however it can provide an advantage to a champion rank. before champion, people would all have an equal shot through the bomb tracker discord of making it into a world with prof bombs/d bombs/ combat xp bombs. now champions will fill up a world with a bomb in it they want, which, depending on how quickly they receive the notification, may prevent others from joining that world.

 

I’ll just preface this by saying that this kind of thread (the “change my mind” kind) is inherently a terrible way if discussion since it’s incredibly hard to change someone’s mind when they haven’t backed up their own views in any meaningful way. If you wanted a productive thread, then you should have articulated your views on Champion instead of saying “no you prove it”. The case against Champion has already been made abundantly clear, so the burden of proof really is on you, considering it’s your thread.

Having said that, it’s quite easy to show that Champion isn’t completely fair. Keep in mind, if there is any small thing about Champion that is even a little bit fair, then Champion cannot be considered “completely fair”, or even fair at all. Therefore I need only point to one small thing to prove that Champion is not completely fair. Pet tasks allow a Champion player to deposit items without visiting their bank. This saves them the time it takes to visit a bank. This time can be used to make progress and thus a Champion player can make a larger amount of progress in the same amount of time. Champion having a quantifiable advantage over non-Champion constitutes as unfair. It is objectively pay-to-win. Whether you think the advantage is significant enough to warrant change, as I do, is irrelevant. You can’t have your cake and eat it. It is not completely fair.

 

What makes you think it is a bug? Since it's the most hated thing about champion, not talking about it here seems a bit weird.

 

Most dedicated bomb parties ping players within a few seconds of bombs dropping, and if a champion genuinely wants to be in such a party they can give themselves the role on discords. However, private parties still exist, but these only have around 20 or so people in them, usually not enough to fill a server.

100% true statement in your first paragraph, so I've given a few of my points. The reason I made this thread is so I can see why people think champion is unfair, as I don't.
Onto your other points, your second paragraph only states that Champion ranks can accomplish things faster. This is not inherently pay to win, as unranked people can accomplish the same thing as they can, only slower. Besides, the benefit is arguable, and it's not even "p2w". The word gets thrown around way too much, pay to win means you must pay in order to win, which is 100% untrue in wynn since you can progress through the game perfectly fine without a rank.

This was not a listed benefit for champion but it's also quite a significant benefit, which makes me think that if they had planned for it to be a benefit they would've advertised it to attract more buyers

 

Remember, that’s not the argument. First of all, you’re mistaken about my use of the term pay-to-win. It is not a question whether you must pay to win, but rather whether you can pay to win. The latter is true in this case. Champion players being able to do things faster is exactly my point. How does doing things faster not constitute as an advantage? And how does Champion players having an advantage in turn not count as unfair? Your thesis isn’t: “Champion players cannot achieve anything that non-Champion player cannot achieve either”, it’s: “Champion is completely fair”. Any advantage obtained through a paywall is not completely fair.

 

Does it state somewhere that an advantage obtained through a paywall is not completely fair? You paid for it so you should get something for your money, and in turn you support the devs.

 

Okay so you’re pro pay-to-win. You should’ve just said that from the beginning. I’m not going to argue with hou whether paying money to rig the rules of a game in your favour is fair or not, because if you can’t see that, then you’re not worth talking to.

 

No iT iSn'T yOu P2w sUpPorTer!!!!!!!11!1!1!

Actually though, I don't think you can even remove the rank at all because doing so would scam a lot of players

 

You're using lots of language to make it sound very bad. Basically the only two points that have been brought up are the bomb bell which I've proven isn't a huge advantage, and the pet thing which just allows you to deposit items. You cannot call it "rigging the game" with benefits like this.

 

Once again, one need not take into consideration the size of any advantage to disprove your thesis. Even 0.000000000001% unfair is not completely fair. “Not a huge advantage” is not relevant, because the argument is not the size of the advantage, but its existence. You have set up your thread in such a way that Champion being anything less than perfect disproves your thesis. Either change your view accordingly or concede that your thesis is untrue. If there is “not that much filth” in my room, then my room is not completely clean. As for your accusation of blowing things out of proportion with language, my whole point is that proportion is not relevant. I would also like to point out the hypocrisy of that statement. Premises like “the server needs to make money to survive” are extremely misleading, because they assume that there is no possible way for the server to make money through fairer, more legitimate ways.

 

If players didn't feel the need to hold profession parties every hour then this wouldn't be a problem

 

I personally don’t have a problem with any of the champion features except for champion slots and how it prevents non-champion players from getting into world with bombs (but you said that this thread wasn’t to talk about that, so I guess I agree with you?).

 

Yeah it was worded badly, I meant that it's relatively fair as it's impossible for anything to be completely fair

 

Okay but prof parties

 

Pay to win doesn't literally mean you need to buy content in order to win,
it's most specifically it's just a payable in-game advantage, in fact, even Urban Dictionary would describe this as pay to win, and they aren't the best at game design lingo:

Even beyond that, you're just arguing semantics at this point.
Arguing over the definition of pay to win doesn't change the fact that this is bad for other players. (Plus, you're literally incorrect about the definition anyways)

So, something I feel like I need to say, pay to win is usually bad for a game from a design perspective.
You can already kind of see this, with players being unable to make it into servers, or loot chest being taken more often because of pet task, but even beyond that, pay to win tends to incentivize developers to actively make the game worse.

If I was attempting to make the most money for Wynncraft, these are some of the first things I would do in order to incentivize people to buy the rank:
1. Remove blacksmith and item identifiers from around the world, so people are more likely to buy champions for pet tasks.
2. make leveling, and professions even grinder, that way people would be more reliant on bombs, and more likely to buy the champion rank because of that.

I'm not saying anything will do either of those, (I hope) but it is something they could do to make more money.
I hope you realize that all those things make the game actively worse, not even just for non-champs either, the game would suffer in general due to pay to win mechanics.
You could continue to go down the rabbit hole like this, making the game less and less fair so people are more likely to buy the rank, and I hope you can agree that's an issue.
Thats the worst part, this kind of already exist as it is, as I pointed out, this makes the game worse for most other players, with the inability to make it into bomb servers and loot chest being far more easily taken without stopping, but something I think has been pointed out yet is this:

CHAMPION RANKS WILL ALSO SUFFER.

That seems like an odd statement, after all, it seems like you guys are the ones benefitting from all of this, but something you haven't likely considered is this,
As more people buy champion rank, you will have more people to compete with. Worlds will fill up faster with champions as they become more common, meaning you, as a champion will (despite the rank) have a harder time making it into bomb servers as well. As more people start loot running via pet task, worlds will become harder and harder to find that haven't already been looted, even despite you having the same benefits.

It's worth noting that none of these issues would be a massive deal to you, finding slightly less loot than you would, or having a slightly harder time making it into a bomb world simply isn't a massive issue, BUT the issue is still there. The issue is even worse for non-ranks of course, they will suffer a lot more from all of this than someone with the rank will, but it still will be an inconvenience. I think in the end, as more people buy champion, its perks simply become a non-benefit. That's not even taking into account the possibility that Wynncraft does something like I mentioned before, which you may think the Wynncraft team would never do, but they have done it before, specifically when VIPs and VIP+ had double XP. (The game was a lot more grindy back then, the only real way to level up was to buy a rank.)

That's all I really have to say on the matter, but I do hope I helped clearer up why some of the champion perks are issues, and why it matters.

 

maybe just get champion lol?