The Problem With 1.20 Guild Wars

Ok, I want to start this off by saying, for those who disagree with this, please read the whole thread as there are a lot of variables that show why 1.20 guild wars suck. And for those that are in Goose and claiming that the new 1.20 war system is good, I believe you only believe that because you have claims right now. If you didn't have claims, and you struggled to get territories, you would be agreeing with me.

Starting off, Timer:
The time to start a war will vary depending on where on the map your HQ is. For example, in Aequitas, our HQ is stationed somewhere in the Jungle. If we were to try and attack Lava Lake, the timer to start the war would be more than 40 minutes... 40 minutes... How is that okay? These long timers prevent wars from happening all across the map.

Now I know some of you are going to say, "well this is good because then it prevents mega alliances."
This isn't necessarily true. Look at Goose right now. We have the large majority of the map and we're doing alright. Either way, there'll be an alliance that dominates the majority of the map. And with that in mind, I don't think the current war system is good because it prevents players from actively warring due to really long timers. Before 1.20 wars, there were plenty of people who spent hours everyday warring FFA's to get their guild xp. Now with the 1.20 wars, there are no FFA's as terrs no longer give xp (another dumb idea). So basically its at a point now where you aren't warring unless you're being attacked.

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The next thing I want to mention, is Territory XP:
Territories no longer give your guild xp like it used to. In order to get xp, you have to buy a bonus for the territory to then give you xp. The xp ranges from 600-7200 xp per hour. That's a VERY small amount compared to how it used to be. The old system where holding a territory while earn your guild 3x the amount of xp earned in the territory was WAYYY better than this change.

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Another thing I'm going to touch are territory defenses:
Whenever you capture a territory, you can place down defenses on it. Rather you choose to upgrade the attack, damage, health or defense of the tower, your guild forfeits resources in order to pay for the defenses. Now those defenses, they can be somewhat easy to defeat or they can be nearly impossible to defeat. Most guilds will need multiple people warring with proficient war builds in order to take a territory. And everyone in wars, will need to be level 100 in order to have a complete war build otherwise they'll die very quickly. Also, Mage is now the new meta in 1.20 wars. I think it's kind of stupid that you have to be a certain class in order to survive wars. But the fact is, it's true. All other classes have it hard because they can't heal themselves quick enough to continue doing damage to the tower. In my opinion, warring should be balanced. Where anyone in any class can still complete a war just as easy as another class.

I think the territory defenses through resources doesn't work as well as the devs might've thought it would've. Once you upgrade the defenses to a high enough level, it becomes OP and nearly impossible to beat. I see a lot of people constantly dying in wars, unable to capture the territory. Honestly, I like the old warring system a lot better.

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In my opinion, the old warring system was better because the wars were a lot more manageable and players of all levels could participate in warring. Not to mention, the old warring system required active warring which is something a large majority of people, such as myself, enjoy. With the new warring system, I rarely war because I would have to wait 50 minutes to take one territory for my ally. I think the devs could've simply just buffed all the mobs and made them harder and the warring community would've been fine with it.

Now I know some of you are going to say that this new warring system is good because its very difficult for mega alliances to dominate the map now. While that may be true, mega alliances are what made warring in Wynn fun and exciting in the first place. Now that it's gone, a lot of the action and excitement is gone. Many players will soon feel bored and begin not logging on anymore. Heck, I'm starting to be the same way now.

I know the devs put a lot of work into the new warring system, but it wasn't thought out well and changes need to be made. Warring proves no gain for guilds other than holding claims on the map. Changes need to be made soon. Otherwise, a large portion of the warring community will die off and no longer play Wynn.

I'm adding this part in late, but the biggest part of the old warring system, was how everything worked nicely together. Subs were awesome and very useful for guilds. They could turn the tide of the battle and some subs even became their own guild, thus diversifying the warring community by bringing new guilds to the table. Overall, the old warring system was WAY better than this new one and I can't stress that enough. The devs seriously should've just reworked the mobs that were used to defend in the old system and things would've been wayyy better than how much of a mess it is now

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/790141717251751976/802400633898270750/f.PNG
^^ bruh



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So far, this is the feedback I've been seeing regarding 1.20 wars.

- XP gains needs to be changed. Most people support reverting back to the old system where holding a territory gives you XP from any mobs killed in it.

- Towers need to be reworked as some can be too OP and extremely hard to defeat.

- Guild slots need to be increased or reverted back to the old system since a lot of guilds are WAY past their member slots.

- Some more bugs need to be fixed. (Closing territories doesn't work, sometimes people don't get loaded into guild wars, some towers still retain their bonuses and defenses even when they don't have the resources to sustain them, resources in guild bank sometimes fluctuating around where they say you're using more than what you're producing but then it returns back to normal).

- It's almost impossible to war when you're below lvl 100. You basically need a lvl 100 class and this is disappointing to some players who liked warring in 1.19 but now can't.

- Timers NEED TO BE REDUCED. THEY ARE INSANELY LONG.

- Would be awesome if more guild activities were included.

 

I still dont understand how a territory with only crops and collect no tax can use 4800 fish upgrades and wood upgrades

 

Low level warring guy here

I used to war on low level a bunch (level 70-80), cause people used a lot of fodders.
Wad fun, allowed me to vibe with my 1 player guild.
Now, I simply cannot do anything guild related because the tower one shot me

 

So I've done a lot of warring during the new update, and you can argue that I'm biased since my guild (Eden) has done very well, however I think I am reasonably unbiased because of that.

I wanna start by saying 1.20 wars are way more fun. They actually take skill, and I find it cool how you can solo the easy terrs but then you have to get a group together for the harder terrs. Yes, everyone needs to be level 100 to do them, but guilds are really endgame content anyways and making wars easier for low lvl players means that high level players will be able to stomp them without thinking.

I also love how the new system means attacking has strategy. (for example, there are some terrs that are too hard to take, so you have to make a circle around them with your terrs then starve it out of resources before you can take it). Another great thing about the new system is that you can give territories to allies for free, meaning one of the most controversial and toxic parts of wars (sniping) is non-existent.

I've also found the difficulty levels quite refreshing. Some territories feel like a real struggle, some I can solo in 20 seconds, and some are impossible (but by using strategy you can eventually take them) I disagree that terrs are either too easy or too hard, I have had some nice middleground. By the way, I only play warrior, and I have been able to solo medium defences (10k dmg atck, 1 mil hp), so mage is obviously not the only class that is usable in wars.

Now to address the one thing I don't like: Timers. When we were fighting in a small ish area (llevigar/olux), they were great, because it added strategy to starting wars (syncing the timers, splitting your team for easy terrs and then grouping back up to fight the harder ones, trying to maximize time between wars). However, as soon as we wanted to help another guild in wynn (we are based in olux), we had 50 minute timers and it cost 200k+ emeralds per attack. Today, helping to reclaim in wynn, I spent 10 LE starting wars (and I only paid for 5). I think that this is pretty ridiculous, because I think its fun to help out allies (and I know the goal was to remove mega alliances but honestly I would rather mega alliances and cross map warring than the current timer system.

I do think the timer system is a cool idea though (although currently poorly setup), and resources travelling is great. Therefore I propose this idea: You can set up some sort of "mini hq" (called an "command post" or something) anywhere on the map. When you make it, you set how many emeralds you want to send to it, and then also set an hourly shipment from your hq. The timer will still run, so it will take 50 minutes or whatever for the first to arrive. Once they are there, however, you can attack from your command post instead of your HQ, so it doesn't take a super long time. This would still make alliances hard, because if someone gets attacked you have to wait 50 minutes for help to come, but it also allows you to help your allies in drawn out combat. 1 thing I haven't addressed is needing to own the territory. I have not quite figured out how that would work, since you won't have materials to defend it (you will be giving away territories your allies take) I am open to suggestions on this.

I hope this helped show why I like the new system (and even if my solution idea is bad, I hope the rest of it was useful)

- ItzTigerTime ;)

 

I definitely agree with Tiger, here are just some points I want to add:

Yes, the timers are too long for distant territories, still they are a good addition and help to keep the map balanced. A guild is limited to one spot and can only expand slowly, making resource management more realistic. Just think of a guild who needs a lot of fish and simply takes every single lake territory on the map to fix their problem - does that feel more balanced to you? Also, many big guilds have at least one sub-guild with no HQ set, so they'll be able to help allies through that one.

Yes. The only effective way to get guild xp is through grinding levels manually, which reduces the community aspect of guilds and just doesn't seem fitting. Imo every territory should give at least some xp, wether by the old system or by the new bonuses doesn't really matter.
Still, this has nothing to do with wars themselves.

That depends on the territory. If you start raiding a big guild by taking out low defence territories, you will eventually drain out the harder ones by cutting of resources and therefore be able to do that with only a few people.
Our guild has been able to attack and hold 57 territories in the last days with 80% of the warrers using morph set, there is not really a demand for high-end war builds, although of course they are more important than before - which is good in my opinion.

The new system requires a combination of classes to be successful in wars. Mages on their own are not optimal, since the lack of damage and tankiness are a problem on new wars. Instead, warring with a warrior, a shaman and a mage together for example is really efficient: The warrior does a lot of damage and doesn't die quickly, the shaman will take care of the "minions" that spawn around the tower and also deal pretty high damage and the mage is there to heal. With that, the unique class abilities get used a lot more, while the old wars were just stupid left clicking on every class. Now you have to think about the groups you split your war team in, classes to use and territories to attack in a specific order to succeed.

I don't really understand that point. Of course you sometimes have to wait for timers to tun down, but with the new resource management and defence systems wars are a lot more stressful than they were. In the last days, we always had to have 3+ warrers on at any point to secure our claims. Before 1.20, territories were just static and the territories of Artemis guilds barely changed, because the biggest guilds could immediately help each other and basically keep every small guild off the non-ffas.

As just mentioned, territories did barely change their owner. Guilds in Artemis could easily secure their claims with the help of allys, and only in the last weeks of pre-1.20, with the rise of Goose, other guilds could start to participate in global war events. Now, small guilds can claim territories wherever they want, and because of timers, it is actually easier for them to attack a guild's territories than it is for allys helping the guild that's being attacked.

Subs have a different role now, but are still important. If you feel bored because every territory you own is secured well, just go to a sub and war in another place, help an ally or just annoy your enemies. Of course it isn't needed for splitting up anymore, but attacking elsewhere gets very easy with subs.


For low level players, it is just best to level up to level 100. It doesn't take too long, and simply by quests and discoveries you can get to around level 95 without lots of grinding, and even after thst it's the amount of level grinding is managable. In our guild there was one guy today who leveled up from from 102 - 106 within only a few hours, don't tell me it's too much work to get to level 100 from 80 or so.

Overall, don't forget that guilds are a way to bring the community together. It was a nice feature to be able to solo wars, but that's just not the purpose of guilds. Now you have to get more active, form warring groups within your guild and joining other players. Surely the new system has many flaws and bugs right now, especially the xp situation should be better. Despite that, from my experience wars are more demanding now, requiring strength and intelligence at the same time, whereas you couldn't really find any strategies in old wars.
I understand that every player feels different about game features, these are only my thoughts.

 

Just to make people remember, because high-level players really seem to forget this, many players even in the guilds play wynncraft casually and want a longer and balanced experience. Levelling up is a lot of work if you aren't grinding for it, trying to find secret discoveries and do the quests appropriate to your level while experiencing the story and the great builds that make up Wynncraft. (which can take up to 1 hour a level)

Edit: forgot to say, these players also want to experience guild activities(which generally only consists of warring inside wynncraft)

 

Warring in 1.20 comes down to "How long can I go before I inevitably die?"

There is no way to control the damage you take. Tower meteors will fuck you up no matter what you do.

There is a difference between something being hard and something being total bullshit. I think 1.20 warring is the latter. If mobs were able to two-shot you, and they are all melee, you can control that because you can kill them and avoid taking damage. There is no way to avoid damage in 1.20 wars and it requires a tank mage for pretty much every scenario because of it. It's stupid, not fun, and needs to be modified.

 

Bump10char

 

A quick replay to those 2 messages:

Wars while technically more skillful its still more of what build your using regardless of your actual skill in Wynncraft. And wars themselves are still as mindless, this update hasn't been successful at doing the 2 majors things it was meant to help with (I'll explain this later on). While mage/shaman are not the only class its possible to war on, warring on anything else besides those 2 can be more hurtful than fun. Because of how timers and resource traveling works it means helping your allies depending on your location is near impossible which guess what, makes the skill ceiling for strategy during a battle so much lower its not really funny. I still think the skill ceiling for wars is too low but that would most likely hurt smaller guilds in the end. This just means overall you either dump a huge amount of raw into helping your allies or don't help them at all. And most of the time you won't need to completely drain an HQ before attacking, depending on the HQ you can probably only take 1/3 of the enemy territories then attack the HQ, and now they are bared from attacking unless they want to again dump a huge amount of raw into reclaiming. Mage is viable (and likely the only class) to solo wars period. If you don't use mage when soloing a territory you're gonna spend more raw buying stat pots to actually survive in said war. The 2 main reason for smaller guilds not able to beat Atremis are mostly: lack of strategy and lack of people who actually want to war. The first raid the alliance now called goose did on fox failed mainly because of their strategy and that was apparent if you were helping defend Fox that day. The second raid did wipe fox (which most likely was its goal) however didn't actually impact fox at all because everyone left once they wiped fox. Fox being fox just reclaimed and went about their day. Warring as a whole does not help guild communites unless their community is actively based around warring. If this update was to help the communities in guilds it would've been better to add more community features than revamping wars.

Some footnotes:

The major reason Eden & Goose as a whole are doing well, is because of the lack of action from Atremis. Around 3 days ago when this comment was written 8 people starting a joke attack on Goose and was actually gaining territories. I feel like its apparent that if Atremis put 100% of its effort in to warring it could easily claim and Goose likely wouldn't stand a chance.

Making builds takes skill in itself, but if your going to claim that actually warring when you have a war build takes skill, It would be better for them not have the towers do TRUE damage but do a couple of things:
1. Make the attacks possible to dodge by the players not having to roll a die on whether or not agility procs
2. Add more varied attacks and give some sort of sign on whether or not the tower is starting to cast an attack
These to changes would easily increase the skill cap more than what it was for warring.

There will always be a mega alliance on the map just by the nature of how wars are fought. No one alliance or guild for that matter has enough time and dedication to grind out an active battle for more than 1-2 months. And smaller guilds were punished even more heavily. Because a territories defenses do more damage and also have more health it just means a larger guild (If needed) can fund better builds which can war more effectively compared to smaller guilds. Larger guilds will also likely have more skills strategists to help coordinate wars in general. Smaller guilds are usually smaller not because the system is against them but because they can't use the systems they have effectively, big guilds can. This will also be the case and trying to change that won't achieve anything. If anything this update just did the opposite of what it wanted to do, the larger guilds can grow larger and the smaller guilds will be left where they are or will end up in a worse position.

 

Bump10char

 

time to become a lone wolf again