SPOILER Tomes - More Powerful Than You Think (discussion)

haha let's force players to do even more profs since the main reward of raids is now ingredients

I say just make tomes additive.

 

I wonder if it would be possible to change the damage to ONLY affect mobs and not the Bosses (like the eye etc)

 

I mean if you literally bring some other players along with you everything in Wynn is laughably easy, it's just that not everyone wants the game to be easy
I feel like Tomes should either give small buffs as a sort of bonus kinda like accessories, be laughably powerful for a short amount of time, or have powerful effects that also have large drawbacks to make unique playstyles

 

Not remotely what I said, I suggested that it would be cool if it was added, not used to replace what's there already. Raids desperately need more rewards, and ingredients for crafting could be one thing along with many others which can make raids more rewarding. The idea that there should only be one reward is so stupid for so many reasons.

 

ah, mb, i didn't read that closely enough. Sure, if they were just one of the many rewards, that would be good.

 

Well from what I saw from people opening reward chests you can find materials in the reward chest.

 

I know you can from Grootslang, but I don't think they were raid specific drops, correct me if I'm wrong on that though.

 

You can get level 40 t3 materials from grootslang and level 100 t3 materials from colossus

 

Holy shit
EDIT: nvm i read this as "40 t3 materials"

 

assuming a 1.6x boost from tomes heavy melee assassin can one shot every boss/boss phase in the game with a single quake except some of the gold bosses in current unbuffed li (first phase bob, last phase cybel, dr legendary possibly, idk if the hp changed with the update)

so with 2 max rolled tomes you could easily one shot literally anything




amazing

 

Max boost is 1.78x with two max mythic weapon mastery tomes.

 

This is literally not what he said.
Like, at all, whatsoever. He said it was a new form of vertical progression. Literally. Nothing about optional didn't say anything about potions, not even close to what you said.

He's attempting to add a new form of vertical progression, kind of like leveling, into the game, that doesn't fuck up current builds. I.e. his kind of raising the level cap without literally raising the level cap.
I have no idea where you got literally anything you just said.

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Sorry by the way, didn't want this to come off as mean forsay.
I just have no idea where you got what you said.

 

Actually, yeah, that was totally my bad, I deleted the offending part from the original post. I apologize for misrepresenting his statement on that, it was not my intention.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to be rude, but thank you.

 

Nah, no worries, that was just me being stupid, lol

 

Also, can I get a "depends on how its handled option"
As of right now, yes they are overpowered, considering the hardest content we have is the raids of which you get them from.
But, if they make tomes literally an alternate leveling system then maybe? Depends on how that's handled.

I think the issue with that idea is it becomes hard to twek loot or xp.
A level 100 mob will still give you full xp, even though a level 100 mob balanced around full tomes would give you the same.
Idk, it's an odd concept, but I understand what he's going for. It's kind of like the endgame of some games, where there is a progression beyond the max level.

 

Tomes are now the new skill pots. Can't wait to see (NoTome) plastered on speedruns now.

 

I'd like to note, since it hasn't been mentioned before, that tomes don't have reqs because they're meant to be vertical progression (per Salted's statement). You're not meant to compare - you're meant to take the strongest tomes over the weaker ones. In my opinion, this is how it should be - it certainly matches the intended design.

All that said, tomes are definitely too powerful. They'll just end up driving a huge divide in balancing, because you will end up with a large chunk of players not really having tomes, and if game content is balanced around players being assumed to have tomes, it'll become incredibly difficult for those without (likely a lot of people, considering beating a raid is not straightforward, and you basically have to beat raids near the min level because of the level caps).

My suggestions:

• Tone down values. The strongest (mythic TCC) weapon tomes could be base 10 or so, and the strongest armor tomes could be base 6 or so. This still gives quite a lot of vertical progression, but prevents this massive gap from being created.
• Remove level caps from raids. This will allow players who can't beat raids at-level to come back at endgame and progress upward again.

As for xp and loot tomes, those probably also should be looked at, but since we don't know how they work it's harder to say anything specific.

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This would unfortunately cause a ton of problems with the damage system, making tomes skew really weirdly between classes and builds (how would the armor tomes work, for example?).

 

Agree with the armor tomes... flat multiplicative is more ok though? I think, but scale the values down.

OR: Fixed small elemental defense? idk this favors defense tanks though.
Maybe some fixed +%elemental defense for scaling.

Raw tomes would screw with the damage system but %spell should*** work ok?

 

I think part of the problem is that Salted is trying to add vertical progression into the game, but isn’t really adding a reason to progress. There’s not really any content harder than raids to begin with, so once you’re able to do the raids there’s not much reason to progress other than to be able to do the raids slightly faster. Because there’s not really any content that’s made with tomes in mind, the power boost only serves to make content easier, not to give people access to new activities. It’s basically adding a pseudo level 120ish cap, but leaving all of the content at level 100. I feel like the best way to solve this would be to add prestige versions of every activity that are much harder but give more rewards.
Alternatively, tomes could be used as a way to lower the power gap between mythic, legendary, rare, and unique weapons, with tomes of a certain rarity only being usable with weapons of the same rarity, and tomes for more common rarities giving stronger boosts. That way, new content could be designed for mythic levels of strength while not alienating people who can’t afford them by giving them a gameplay path to that level of strength. That system has its own problems and would probably need to work by increasing a weapon’s base damage, though, rather than simply as a straight damage boost for a full build. Hell, they could even be weapon specific and give unique bonuses to match what the weapon is trying to accomplish, like giving Praesidium the guardian ID or something.