Item Team Poll - Uppercut Debate

Vanish providing damage boost at all is honestly a bad mechanic imo.

 

Yeah it would still be one of the best spells without the damage boost in my opinion.

 

Really? I think its great.
It becomes the combo peace of the class,
Why do you think its bad? I want some sort of explaintion honestly.

 

I disagree. Vanish would be absolutely useless if it did not provide a good damage boost. The damage boost also greatly benefits the class in utility, sheer DPS, and fun. Vanish is the cornerstone of Assassin's combos which relies on precise spell timing and placement to fully utilize. It's also fun developing different combos using the damage boost from Vanish correctly. How is it a bad mechanic when that change alone propelled the class from being sub-optimal and boring into a class that is incredibly fun to play?

 

Warrior is supposed to be crowd control innit? Give me a third option. Keep the mana but increase the range. Maybe make the mobs not be able to cast spells some time, or attack slower/weaker. Curse-like effect seems more like an Assassin's domain.

 

I think it actively unbalances the class wrt build styles. A spell being a major offensive benefit to melee practically killed off tierstack. Not to mention the hit to mana regen playstyles. I don't think short-duration damage boosts from spells are a good idea. I think Vanish was better when it was a defensive utility spell.

 

I just want to build mana regen assassin but vanish crushes my hopes and dreams every time :(

 

Horrible idea. Lmao 2 mana just for some extra range? The CC uppercut produces is counter-intuitive due to the fact that it makes the mob extremely hard to target while it is in the air, making you and your teammates effectively lose DPS. Warrior as a class currently has no meaningful form of CC. Also giving mobs some form of weaken effect doesn't help warrior since what he's lacking most is damage output.

 

I would argue that warrior actually isn't that lacking in dps aside from Uppercut's high mana cost (run the calcs yourself and you'll see, it's roughly comparable in dps to Shaman). I think what Warrior lacks the most is a way to deal with ranged mobs. As-is, casting spells doesn't really give Warrior any advantage against ranged mobs, something that every other class gets (all in very different ways).

 

I disagree. Using vanish as part of the core combat loop for assassin makes it a lot more fun to play, IMO. The short-duration boost gives it an identity separate from the other classes and managing vanish’s damage boost feels a lot more enjoyable to me than just having a set-and-forget spell like war scream, which is basically used once every two minutes and then barely touched except maybe to deal with a sniper just out of uppercut range. I like actually having to use every spell for maximum damage in combat that’d otherwise be pretty mindless. There are problems, sure, but I’d rather see them worked on than see vanish reverted entirely.

As for how vanish affects melee, I feel like the bigger issue here is that melee combat in general just isn’t nearly as well designed as spell combat and is in desperate need of an overhaul. It’s not dynamic in the slightest and it’s really homogeneous between classes (except archer, but that’s widely considered the weakest melee) even if every class technically has a ‘unique’ melee. The rest of assassin was and is balanced around Vanish's 80% boost, but because melee is so homogenized, it becomes impossible to balance with vanish. Like, just look at how the % melee and raw melee damage IDs are handled; % melee boosts are practically useless without being in almost the hundred percent range, and raw melee is pretty much all anyone ever looks at in a melee build as well as providing the exact same damage boosts between classes. Melee builds are pigeonholed largely into building for raw melee and speed tiers, while spell builds can successfully build around elemental damage, spell costs, intelligence, mana regen, mana steal, raw spell damage, and % spell damage. There’s also only two major IDs right now that effect melee, sorcery and explosive impact. And neither of those are actually melee-centric; right now there are no melee-specific IDs at all. There’s also no reason to use any attack speed besides super slow or super fast. A lack of passives or combos make moment to moment melee gameplay incredibly bland, and the only thing that breaks up melee combat, powder specials, are still shared among every class and are only available every 5-10 seconds. It feels like an afterthought that was added in so people could still do something after running out of mana, rather than a system people are actually supposed to build around.

 

Uppercut's high mana cost is exactly what limiting warrior's dps :/ Shaman's dps isn't fair because as far as single target goes, he's actually not the highest but what makes him op is his ridiculous AOE and how many enemies he can apply that constant stream of damage to. Warrior has a few fixes to deal with ranged mobs, the first is to give Warscream some kind of projectile erasing property on the forward facing projectile and second is to give Charge hyper-armour (isn't interrupted by damage).

 

Look on the bright side warrior mains!

 

@Emogla3
Honestly this just makes me wonder about the viability of adding a couple CCI mobs into hordes to make fighting them more engaging. Like a bunch of normal mobs with a few CCI majors thrown into the pile

 

Could you explain what CCI means?

 

Yeah, Warrior prolly outdamages shaman and mage (especially since warrior spell speeds are effectively unlimited, even more so with CCI)

It just doesn't compete with assassin or archer, and doesn't have the sustain of mage or shaman. So it ends up lagging behind in every aspect.

 

Crowd Control Immunity; basically knockback effects, as well as slows, freezes and blindness can't affect mobs that have CCI.

 

shaman is the worst class. this is truly a complete victory.

it also looks like melee shaman is even more gamer now due to not relying on aura prison

 

Yet this same thing would apply to Warrior, so they'd both be almost equally bad, difference being Warrior would die not as fast since it has natural defense.

 

I'd say CCI mobs are better for warrior cus now u don't have to hit uppercancels at all, just spam uppercut twice and bash to reset for even more damage.

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Oh god i just realized, finally, FINALLY!!! LI BOSSES WON'T GLITCH INTO THE ARENA ANYMORE, HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!

 

Well your aim was to nerf shaman not to make it completely unviable.