Item Team Poll - Uppercut Debate

I click manually. And even 12mr isn’t enough for sustained 4 mana uppercancels for me, of course I usually just use builds with 9mr (or 7-9mr with mixed mana) cuz building for enough mr for sustained uppercanceling is honestly tiresome (of course I might just have high cps, in which case, my opinion is not as relevant)

(wynntils stuff was far too slow for me)

 

I completely agree that giving bash a better form of CC (Blackhole effect or root) is more important than uppercut buffs, but it's a step in the right direction. I'm glad the wynn balance team is finally getting started on a Warrior buff.

 

epic‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌

 

Ice Bear thinks the curse effect should go on ice snake as a buff to mage as it makes a lot more sense themeatically.

 

Depends on how you look at it, sure it fits mage more thematically if you look at it as a curse effect, but it definitely fits warrior more if you phrase it as 'applying vulnerable'.

 

You still don't have the IM tag btw

 

The issue with warrior isn't really uppercut to me (though it is still quite bad).The problem is that bash doesn't actually slow down enemies and the spells doesn't really synergize to one another.

10 mana uppercut was fine for me, but maybe not after the sp nerfs.
Uppercut is eh because you send enemies up but you can't really combo with it - Bash can't deal with uppercut-ed enemies and war scream does little to no damage. I know that you guys changed it once so I can do uppercut + bash combo, but it doesn't seem so good either.

I propose that:
1. Make bash slows down enemies
2. Make uppercut 8 mana AND more bash damage to airborned/uppercut-ed enemies (maybe 20% more idk)
3. (Not important here but) Allow vertical charging for 3-4 blocks (at least)

Anyway I am happy that the Item Team started working on warrior buff, but to be honest uppercut is a not-so-good spell (at least for spell combos) if you guys don't rework it ;-;
And bash is the main issue lol

EDIT: Actual spell combos in other classes:
Shaman - Totem (buffs damage) + aura (trap people in a circle) + uproot (push people away/pull people near you so you melee it) (it is quite op though)
Archer - Bomb (actually slows people) + arrow storm (large amount of damage in a slowed enemy) + Arrow shield (I feel that it blocks projectiles, tell me if it doesn't)
Mage - Ice snake (slows people) + Meteor (Needs time to spawn so Ice snake perfectly helps) (Not to mention that mage sustainability is so high)
Assassin - Smoke bomb (Damage over time + blind + slow) + Spin attack (One of the most spammable spell in game) + Vanish (buffs damage)

Warrior is quite niche - Uppercut just sends enemies to the sky, but they could still throw projectiles at you if they see you (died at least 3 times in LI because of this ;-;)
And from what I see, people tend not to jump up with enemies with uppercut for idk reasons.

 

Honestly I think that the curse effect would be better applied to assassin, assuming that vanish gets nerfed in tandem, or mage. Warrior already has a team-focused spell and waaaay too many additional effects on its spells, to the point where they actually begin to conflict with each other. It’s just adding on more stuff to an already overstuffed kit. Assassin, meanwhile, has no team focused utility in its kit, and the curse effect would be pretty thematically appropriate (like marking a target to assassinate them). And Mage has the opposite issue to warrior; its spells are extremely simple, which means each spell has exactly one use. Teleport is pretty much the only exception as is doubles as mobility and as a trash-ad clearer, but the rest are pretty much static. Heal heals, ice snake sets up meteor, meteor kills stuff. Adding the curse effect to teleport or ice snake would open up some new combos; ice snake would finally have a use as more than just pure crowd control, and would be actually useful against already stationary targets, while teleport could be integrated into mage’s main combo for a much more dynamic playstyle.

That said, I’d honestly be in favor of just straight up adding both options to warrior in exchange for reverting some of the fluff effects it has. I don’t think many people actually seriously use Bash’s damage buff, for example, and managing war scream, charge’s and bash’s effects overriding each other is often more of a hassle than its worth.
Either way, though Warrior’s issues already extend far beyond uppercut, and while both effects might be a decent band-aid it’s kit as a whole needs to be looked at.

 

i agree, warrior spells tend to push people away, but to be honest if you are to fight a crowd, you need to gather enemies instead of pushing them away

 

Curse-like effect :D

 

If this is done the same way cursed is, then this is basically nothing, since it adds 15-25% spell/melee damage modifier. So if e.g. a build already has 100% spell damage, this increase would only be 7.5-12.5%, if a build already has 200% spell damage, this increase would only be 5-8.3%. Taking the actual cursed special into account, combined with a high spell damage% build, 500% increased spell damage (210% from cursed) is easily achievable and in this case the warrior buff would amount to 2.5-4.2% damage increase.

This is also why you normally want to have really good base damage on a weapon and can e.g. even use things like braker as a spell spear.

On a side note, this is also why high dex/str SP are actually really bad in two ways (the other one being the diminishing returns ofc), at least compared to int/agi/def that have neither of those problems (if you ever wanna make ETW good, instead of further overtuning those items and nerfing tanky ones into the ground - rip cancer - actually adress the problem and buff str/dex).

 

I vote curse, I like the idea of heavy spell. Uppercut spamming is difficult to do as is, curse would help new players who don't know how to uppercut cancel.

 

The problem is not the damage or the cost of the spell, its the spell itself.

The spell design is bad - those small buffs wont change that at all. I personally prefer the curse option but honestly it doesnt fix the bad spell design at all

 

holy shit . IM is buffing warrior .

 

While it's been a while since I have last played, I mained warrior and uppercut just felt very detached from whatever the purpose of the class is.
Look at archer for example: It is a class that primarily would want to keep its enemies at bay, and the spells mainly reflect that idea. Warrior is a class that by the base defense rating and general itemization wants to get things up close and personal. War Scream and Uppercut are primarily odd-balls in this idea, and especially for Uppercut just feel really clunky to put all-together.

I think it would be better for the design of the class if instead of the second and third part of Uppercut knocking the target upwards, it instead drew the enemy a bit closer as the second part merged with the third one. Uppercut could have its 3rd part upgrade changed to instead put a debuff on the enemy's damage dealt that does not stack and mainly requires maintenance.

Uppercut, in general, is just a really clunky spell to use in groups, and there could probably be points to be made about its inconveniences in solo play.

 

chill dude, the mods aren't stupid they know that this is just a small problem. The whole point of this thread is that they're making a start to a bigger change in the long run.

 

M O D S ?

 

I'd honestly probably go with both or make one of them pretty extreme; the curse effect would be nice, but it would need to give a pretty big debuff to make it really on par with spells like meteor or arrow bomb, and even more so if it stays at 10 mana.

The mana cost reduction I think needs to happen one way or another; having the class with what are probably the worst spells in the game have the highest mana costs seems silly. If it stays at 10 mana, I feel like you should get 10 mana worth of damage/utility out of it, but that would be a pretty extreme buff.

 

IM team = CT. Not mods. Mods don't make stuff or break stuff. That's up to the CT. Leave Mods out of this. We get blames for enough stuff, already.

 

I think replacing the strength from warscream and making it absorption or health boost would be better. I mean a 10% damage boost sounds good in theory but is miniscule in effect in practice.