SPOILER Rhythm Of The Seasons/rally Discussion

I like the defense, specifically because, if balanced right, it could make up for the -hp.
Of course atm it doesn't do that, but, whatever.

 

I like this item a lot. It is a really good secondary but also usable as a main weapon. It gives warrior some healing abilities which is very good and it is an interesting item. Since the items is lvl 100 the warrior builds below that level wont change and those above lvl 100 are still going to decide on using other items because there are a lot of oter playstyles. Spell-Warrior is kinda bad atm and this item makes it a lot more interesting. All other warrior builds are untouched by a spell warrior item like this one

 

the problem is, other warrior builds AREN'T untouched. they got a massive indirect nerf. why would you use, say, no-int spell warrior when it now locks you out of this? int warrior is now free of building sustain, but is extreme tierstack? nope. my problem with this weapon is that it's entire existence gives like. more-than-valid reasons to never use any other playstyle.

 

Fyi these leggings also have rally

 

ok nice it isn't int-restricted. but that water damage penalty still really hurts (assuming you don't build this twf or some similar quad)

 

To be fair I play 0-int spell warrior (fast hybrid? more like slayer slap) because its fun, int warrior won't let you tank AND be fast AND drop 22k first hit uppercuts
but the only reason its viable (for me) is the existence of old keeper's ring

agree that the major id seems real powerful for a side wep

though it will probably be weaker than koh significantly because the heal isn't instant (I think someone said it only heals when you land?) so you can't just switch off and r-r-r your way to full health

(about those leggings, why is so much of the good (E)TFA stuff in the leggings slot ;-; but nice? [though 10k charge and 1/4 mr is also nice idk])

 

you can look straight down when you charge and land after ~.75-1 second iirc.

again, the weapon heals far more than the leggings, as it has + water damage and more health than the leggings, while the leggings have -water damage.


and personally, i'm not a fan of the argument "hmmm yes okr is broken and needs to be nerfed, but instead of nerfing that we will just add something else to do the same thing"

power creep.

 

one second is very slow when you consider koh can heal you for 20-30k hp in about the same time if you click fast; 10% in 1 second is quite... meh actually

if you're reasonably tanky and don't take much more than 1k per burst from the boss, sure it'll work as a very strong sidewep to heal away chip damage, but its no koh

but yes I am also not a fan of that okr argument, but I abuse it anyway until its changed

(I guess in mid-level play or if you're just trying to stay alive its insanely OP but when you're trying to optimize dps, every second spent charging and doing less damage is a second where you aren't using whatever primary weapon to do much more damage)
(unless rhythm of the seasons is your primary weapon in which case good for you)

 

optimizing dps is generally frowned upon

the thing about rots vs koh is that koh is unusable as a primary (@Crokee ), but rots is more than good as a primary. also, koh is more fine imo because mage will always have heal. it won't be as much, and it will cost more mana, but at least you have it to use. for rots, if you don't have the major id, you need to build sustain into your build, which costs damage or other utilities.

 

This is what I said on Drusers thread, I'm just going to copy and past it:


"It's Rally, found one in-game.
In fact, I got it as soon as it rolled out almost, should have said sooner.
Want to judge it now that you know? Should I? Idk.

All I can say is this eliminates how meta defining Seasons is, by giving it a friend.
Plus sides of this: Seasons will no longer be slapped on every warrior ever.
Downsides of this: This is starting to feel like a warrior fix.

Selvut said before, on a different thread, that I was misunderstanding the intent of Rally, I realize that. I think the issue now is everyone else will misunderstand Rally as well.
I think warrior will become the one class that doesn't stand on its own two feet, and instead relies on items as a crutch, and I think a lot of people will be fine with this.

Instead of oversweeping changes to a class that needs one, we instead get items that give warrior an op spell that allows us to ignore the rest of its issues. (And yes, it's op. Frankly, almost every instance of a spell or ability healing has been op sense Gavel. Like Greed, Totem, or Heal.) I'm not sure if the team will be ok with this, but I think most casual players will be.

Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion, maybe it's fine.
But if the day ever comes where I look in discord and see someone say "Warrior is fine, because it can us item X Y or Z." and most people agree with him, I will be upset, to at least a slight extent.

-=-=-=-=-=-

All I have to say is Selvut, please don't allow these items to define warrior as a class."

 

I think your take on rally is actually really interesting since while I agree healing is really OP in general, I think warrior having some sort of healing ability actually makes the most sense of all the classes. By giving warrior the ability to heal easily it makes a tank build much more viable. I haven't looked at the SP reqs so I'm not sure if this is possible, but I imagine a build with this as a secondary and Guardian as your main could be really interesting if they introduced some way of redirecting agro.

Of course with that being said, I do agree single items are not going to fix the actual issues warrior has since a single fun build won't make warrior a more fun class and I can totally see people defending warrior as being good because some of the new support items.

 

strobelight redirects aggro, or maybe it was built into war scream already, not sure which.


but still, no matter how thematically appropriate a healing spell is on warrior, or even how well it balances it, restricting it to items is NOT the play.

 

I never thought I’d see the day people speculated that warrior would be saved by its item pool. Of course, that is what’s happening, but the thing is, it’s just that the (non-mythic) warrior item pool is just as trash as it’s toolkit, so any competent option completely outshines everything else.

If ROTS had come with a warrior spear overhaul, this discussion might be a different story (granted a spear overhaul would still be a “fix” to the toolkit), but as is ROTS outshines every other spear. (Also, if ROTS keeps fabled baseline I’m going to lose faith in humanity)

 

Rots was given a pre-beta nerf that wasn’t pushed when beta was. Bart listed the change somewhere which I can’t find, but it was a base damage nerf.

 

lets be honest, it seems they nerfed everything.
Thats the only thing I really dont like about the update.

 

Yes, but in that nerf (if we’re thinking of the same one), ROTS still hits as hard as infused hive. It still has a fabled baseline.

 

i think a lot of nerfs were pretty justified, it's just dhy neck that happens to be a yikes change
but the meta is still going to creep upwards bc of new op stuff like rots and corkian amplifier
you can pm me if you want to talk about this, i think dicussing other changes is hijacking

 

So, after further discussion, a much larger nerf has been decided on for Rhythm of the Seasons. We'll be pushing this to the next beta update most likely, but we're going to put it here for people to deliberate on.

Changes:

Rhythm of the Seasons (Fabled Spear, Unidentified)

slots: 3 -> 2
damage: 45-60 -> 60-70
earthDamage: 150-170 -> 120-150
attackSpeed: VERY_FAST

level: 100
strength: 0 -> 75
intelligence: 70 -> 25
defense: 0 -> 25

defensePoints: 25 -> 12
manaRegen: 3
speed: 19 -> 0
healthRegenRaw: -300 -> -435
healthBonus: 2500 -> 1800
spellCost3Raw: 1
bonusWaterDamage: 25


Final stats:

Rhythm of the Seasons (Fabled Spear, Unidentified)

slots: 2

damage: 60-70
earthDamage: 120-150
attackSpeed: VERY_FAST

level: 100
strength: 75
intelligence: 25
defense: 25

defensePoints: 12
manaRegen: 3
healthRegenRaw: -435
healthBonus: 1800
spellCost3Raw: 1
bonusWaterDamage: 25

 

not sure how i feel about it being locked to a tri (ewf or ewf-based quads), but i do like the rest of the nerfs.

 

I kinda get what it's going for now, it's a more paladin kinda thing. (Like the world of warcraft paladin.)
So just throwing this in the air, we could get people to rely more on the beef of their build by making charges more sparse but powerful.
(This way it's an attitude more to semi tank paladin builds, as ewf is a fairly beefy combo.)
We can do this by giving it some more water damage, but also giving it + charge cost.

Keep in mind, I'm guessing on the point of the spear,
If I'm wrong, tell me, but either way, if I'm right, that's my suggestion.

________________________________

Also I like it.
My biggest issue was how generally the spear, *Cough* and now pants *Cough* could be applied to builds.
Locking this behind a certain element trio is kinda what it needed. It's no longer a slap item for whatever water build you want, as much as it's a direct improvement to ewf warrior builds.