Guide Pvp Damage Calculation

This thread by @Crokee has been sitting for quite some time, so let's fix this.

For those of you who didn't know, defence in PvP seems like it behaves differently than defence in PvE.
Defence in PvE was changed from being additive to being multiplicative.
(How defence works in PvE as of writing this thread)

Now, Defence in PvP essentially works the same. It's multiplicative. All defences affect each other. BUT, and that's an important but, unlike mobs players also have ID damage bonuses (Spell damage % and raw, Elemental damage etc.). Defences only affect the Base Damage, Therefore even though they are multiplicative in relation to one another, together they function as an additive damage reduction, hence their effect is much smaller in comparison to PvE.

Now for the Juice! here are the full formulas (Warning - Ugly math ahead):

Spoiler: Melee

These are the formulas for Melee Damage. To calculate the damage range, you will need to apply the formulas to the minimum and maximum of each of the damages on your weapon. Damage always rounds down at the END of the formula.

Neutral Damage
{ (Base damage) x [ (ID Boost) + (Defence Factor %) ] + (Main attack neutral) } x (1 + Ability Damage %)

Elemental Damage
(Base damage) x { (ID Boost) + (Defence Factor %) } x (1 + Ability Damage %) - (Elemental Defence)

Spoiler: What each part means

• ID boost - All your damage boosting IDs which have anything to do with melee, refer to motoki's damage thread.

• Defence Factor % - the multiplier that scales the damage based on the different defences. The formula:
  (1 - Defence %) x (2 - Class defence %) x (1 - Ability Defence %)

• Defence % - The % amount of damage reduction from assigned Defence Skill Points. can be viewed through the compass in-game, or through Here.

• Class defence % - The innate defence that every class has.
  • Warrior: 120%
  • Assassin: 100%
  • Mage: 80%
  • Archer: 60%
  • Shaman: 50%

• Ability Defence % - Special defences, show up as a resistance potion effect. You can only have one ability defence boost active at a time:
  • War scream - 10%, 15% or 20% at levels 1, 2 and 3 respectively
  • Saviour's Sacrifice - 50% while under 30% HP
  • Vanish - 15% while vanished

• Elemental Defence - The overall elemental Defence. The formula:
  (Raw Elemental Defence) + |Raw Elemental Defence| x (% Elemental Defence)

• Raw Elemental Defence - The amount of raw elemental defence for a specific element on your armour and accessories. Can be found in the player menu (compass).

• % Elemental Defence - The Identification "-25% Thunder defence" for example. Can be found on weapons, armours and accessories for each of the 5 elements.

• Main attack neutral - The identification "Main attack neutral damage". It's important to differentiate this from neutral weapon damage.

• Ability Damage % - Special damage boosters, show up as a strength potion effect. You can only have one ability damage boost active at a time:
  • War scream - 10%
  • Saviour's Sacrifice - 50% while under 30% HP.
  • Vanish - 80% While vanished, continues for two seconds after exiting vanish.
  • Totem - 35% from yours, 15% from an ally's totem.

To calculate melee dps, multiply the values you get by the attack speed multiplier (Refer to "Spell", "What each part means").

Spoiler: Spell

These are the formulas for Spell Damage. To calculate the damage range, you will need to apply the formula to the minimum and maximum of the neutral, elemental and spell conversion values. Damage always rounds down at the END of the formula.

Neutral Damage
(Base damage) x [ (ID Boost) + (Defence Factor %) ] x (Attack speed multiplier) x (Spell Multiplier) x (1 + Ability Damage)

Elemental Damage
{ (Base damage) x [ (ID Boost) + (Defence Factor %) ] x (1 + Ability Damage) - (Elemental Defence) } x (Attack speed multiplier) x (Spell Multiplier)

Raw Damage
(Raw Spell Damage) x (Spell Multiplier)

Spoiler: What each part means

• ID boost - All your damage boosting IDs which have anything to do with spell, refer to motoki's damage thread.

• Defence Factor % - the multiplier that scales the damage based on the different defences. The formula:
  (1 - Defence %) x (2 - Class defence %) x (1 - Ability Defence %)

• Defence % - The % amount of damage reduction from assigned Defence Skill Points. can be viewed through the compass in-game, or through Here.

• Class defence % - The innate defence that every class has.
  • Warrior: 120%
  • Assassin: 100%
  • Mage: 80%
  • Archer: 60%
  • Shaman: 50%

• Ability Defence % - Special defences, show up as a resistance potion effect. You can only have one ability defence boost active at a time:
  • War scream - 10%, 15% or 20% at levels 1, 2 and 3 respectively
  • Saviour's Sacrifice - 50% while under 30% HP
  • Vanish - 15% while vanished

• Elemental Defence - The overall elemental Defence. The formula:
  (Raw Elemental Defence) + |Raw Elemental Defence| x (% Elemental Defence)

• Raw Elemental Defence - The amount of raw elemental defence for a specific element on your armour and accessories. Can be found in the player menu (compass).

• % Elemental Defence - The Identification "-25% Thunder defence" for example. Can be found on weapons, armours and accessories for each of the 5 elements.

• Raw Spell Damage - The identification "Neutral Spell Damage". It's important to differentiate this from neutral weapon damage.

• Attack Speed Multiplier - A multiplier decided by the attack speed of your weapon. the values are:
  • Super fast - 4.3
  • Very fast - 3.1
  • Fast - 2.5
  • Normal - 2.05
  • Slow - 1.5
  • Very slow - 0.83
  • Super slow - 0.51

• Spell Multiplier - the amount of damage a spell does. for example, bomb arrow does 250% damage, so it's multiplier will be 2.5. Arrow storm does 10% for 60 arrows, so it's multiplier will be 0.1 x 60 = 6.
  The Values for spell damages can be found in the wiki.

• Ability Damage % - Special damage boosters, show up as a strength potion effect. You can only have one ability damage boost active at a time:
  
  • War scream - 10%
  • Saviour's Sacrifice - 50% while under 30% HP.
  • Vanish - 80% While vanished, continues for two seconds after exiting vanish.
  • Totem - 35% from yours, 15% from an ally's totem.

Spoiler: Thorns / Reflection

Thorns and reflection are very simple - they just reflect back half of the damage dealt to you (including all damage boosts, defences and elemental defences). If you were dealt 100 damage, reflection and thorns will reflect back 50 damage to your opponent. It still rounds down, so 133 damage dealt will reflect 66 damage.
(133 / 2 = 66.5 ==> round down = 66)

Thorns and reflection damage doesn't activate thorns and reflection.

Spoiler: Poison

Poison is unaffected by class damage boosts, ability damage boosts and all defence types. It is however affected by Strength, Courage and Curse.
In order to calculate how much poison damage you will do just insert the values into the formula:
Poison x (1 + Strength %) x (1 + Courage %) x (1 + Curse %)

• Strength % is the percentage of the damage boost from assigned strength skillpoints
• Courage % is the percentage of the damage boost from the fire powder special.
• Curse % is the percentage of the damage boost from the water powder special.

That's the damage dealt in a span of 3 seconds (3 ticks of poison). To figure out how much damage you inflict per poison tick, simply divide that value by 3.

Important game mechanics that are involved in calculations:

• If after inserting all the values into the formulas you get negative Neutral or Elemental damage it won't decrease the final amount of damage, thus when calculating the final damage treat said negative damages as equal to 0.
• If after inserting all the values into the formulas you get negative Raw Spell damage that value will decrease the final amount of damage, thus when calculating the final damage add it as it is.
• When considering elemental defences, negative raw elemental defences will not flip when adding more than 100% elemental defence, while positive will.
  
  Spoiler: Flip

  Flip means change from positive to negative and vice versa. we will take the formula for elemental defence:
  (Raw elemental) + { |Raw elemental| x (Elemental %) }
  
  Positive to negative does flip
  100 Raw Elemental , (-125%)
  (100) + { |100| x (-1.25) } = (-25)
  
  Negative to positive doesn't flip
  (-100) Raw Elemental, 125%
  (-100) + { |-100| x (1.25) } = 25 ==> 0

An example of damage

Coming soon! I promise.

There can be several insights about defence effectiveness in PvP, with the biggest one being that it's quite useless. Elemental defences (and weaknesses for that matter) do have a much larger effect.
Ideally I would make an automatic way to calculate all of that since doing that manually is a pain, but not at the moment. Maybe in the future.

BIG THANKS TO @Wxhlf, @Ingo, @HyperPotato31 AND @RenZenthio for helping me test this shit

Spoiler: Edit log

9.10.2020 - Added War scream and Saviour's Sacrifice mechanics, renamed thread to "PvP Damage Calculation" and did a complete revision

12.10.2020 - Added special damage and defence multipliers, thorns, reflection, poison and pretty much finished the thread!

28.10.2020 - Added clarifications on a few topics, plus courage and curse effects on poison.

 

so in theory if i had a 150 def assassin, how much would it block? can’t read sry

edit: found formulas nvm

 

Incase you didn't read, this is only partial and does not account for spell damage (where there's lots of shit involnved) and elemental weaknesses / defences (which just need to be determined weather defence affects or not in pvp)

 

yeah sorry i just wasn’t using my brain :’)
looking forward to more of this being figured out, lmk if you need my characters for testing

 

so class defense and base defense have much less of an effect in pvp. no wonder agi archers are so good in pvp (poison aside).

devs pls fix so defense and class defense work in pvp.

i'm interested in how this turns out with ele defenses and spells

 

Very interesting... Thanks for partially solving this.


One thing I would like to add is that elemental defenses are probably additive in the same way as pve. It’s only anecdotal evidence but my hunted WFA build is nearly unkillable if the attacker uses a regular Weathered build due to extremely high air defense.

 

I can almost guarantee elemental defense does get accounted for pvp, in my hunted build i have ~3.8k air defense, where as normal people with ~1k air defense get 1 or 2 hit by vanished multihit. I've had hunters with weathered comes up to me and deal ~2-3k damage tops with a vanish multihit.

 

So this means that def is very effective on shaman and archer, and agi is better for warrior?

 

Nope, it's still highly ineffective in pvp for any class.

________________________________

Updated the thread with the full damage formulas including elemental damage and spells! Examples will be ready later.

 

Changed title, and Thread updated with War scream and Saviour's Sacrifice behaviours, plus some rewording here and there.

EDIT: Realized I was an idiot and completely revised the thread

 

Alright, Added special damage boosters behaviours into the formulas, all that's left is to test thorns / reflection,,,,,,.,......,.,.,,.,,.,.,,.,.

 

Alr added thorns, reflection and poison and pretty much finished the thread, I'll add a damage example but won't announce it, if anyone reads it and finds an error / something missing please tell me either in here or in discord (iTechnically#4671). You're welcomed to ask anything and I promise you'll get a response!

 

I didn’t know you were actually making a thread, really poggers !! (now, I can do wynn dmg calculations in peace. Many thanks for this thread really cool)

 

tmw you run agi archer and still lose most pvp duels

 

bumpychars