Atlas Inc Reacts To: Warrior!

Okie dokie everyone, today we’re here with TheFineB- I mean- Atlas Inc to do some low-effort conte- reactions!

I was pretty happy with the previous “Atlas Inc overreacts to the patch notes” so here’s something along a similar vein but with Warrior!

I got a bunch of people either in Atlas Inc or people who interact often in the discord to write their thoughts. This is like, a massive list with a bunch of different people all with varying amounts of playtime with Warrior (Anywhere from Warrior Mains or extremely experienced players like Druser and Epicness to me and Yraw who have like level 50 warriors max) so hopefully it’s a good focus group to do a study on. Of course, due to everyone having tons of different opinions it’s going to have a lot of contradictions, which is good. Anyways, taking some feedback on the previous thread, I’ve added some spoilers to make content easier to see. I suggest checking out everyone’s opinions, since there’s a lot of neat ideas being floated around here.


Section 1: Problems with Warrior

Spoiler: ”Kio”

Kio: Aight here’s my thoughts on why warrior is solidly the 5th best class in the game.


The main issue I’ve found with warrior is the lack of viable CC (Crowd Control). All classes possess a good way of being able to deal damage to enemies while keeping enemies unable to deal damage to them: Whether this is accomplished through CC, like Mage’s Ice Snake, through distancing, like Archer’s Shield and general kit, through effective invincibility, like Assassin’s Vanish, or through super powerful CC like Shaman’s Aura Trap and Totem, all classes can effectively pull off their own thing without being in harm’s way most of the time as long as they’re played correctly, that is, besides Warrior.


Warrior does have CC Spells, that’s true, Bash does give a slow, and the knockback caused by the spells technically counts as CC, but the issue with Knockback and Slows is that Knockback is effectively a CC for both you and the mob- it can’t deal damage to you, but in turn, since warrior is a close-ranged class, you can’t deal damage to it. This is partly why warrior’s damage is so low, since you’re constantly playing catchup with the mob you’re trying to kill.

Spoiler: ”Selector”

Selector: Like many MMOs, Warrior was designed to be a tank class. Unlike many MMOs, Wynncraft’s current content has no room for a tank. The only boss in the game similar enough to a raid boss, is The Eye at the end of Eldritch Outlook. The boss itself has only AoE attacks which can hit anyone, and although Warrior has taunt on only specific items, you can’t use strategies such as “turning the boss around so it’s AoE is aimed away from the party/raid” since The Eye only faces the same direction at all times. In addition, the class itself does not have a built-in taunt, making it very difficult to take aggro of anything since aggro is based on whoever has dealt the most damage. Uppercut causing a ridiculous amount of knockup is a DPS loss. While there is a strategy to counter this (upper-canceling), that strategy requires you to not lag, which as we know, Wynn does quite a lot for little to no reason. Warscream feels like a joke. For more details, check out my comments in section 2 and 3.

Spoiler: ”Euouae”

Euouae: warrior falls behind in performance when met with ranged enemies. This is shown with archer having range, shaman also having some sort of range, assassin (haven’t played yet oh no) appears to have spin attack to stun, and mage (also haven’t played yet poopy poopy) has meteor. Warrior, however, doesn’t really have anything, other than charging forward and trying to deal damage.

I'd also agree that trying to combo spells is a pain. Like other people are saying, the knockback from Bash and the annoying "turn your mob into a rocket" gimmick in uppercut makes it really hard to link the spells together in a smooth way. As of right now, the only decent spell strategy for warriors is uppercancelling.

Spoiler: ”Druser”

Druser: I think Kiocifer has it right on. Warrior has two major problems. Firstly, it’s the only class without any ranged attack mitigation. Archer has long range and speed, Assassin has Spin blindness and Vanish, Mage has range and Heal, Shaman has Aura Trap and Totem healing. Warrior has… basically nothing. A mediocre movement spell and minimal utility effects on its spells, with no such ranged attack mitigation. The second big problem is that Warrior can’t follow up on attacks that well. Although Warrior’s spells appear to have delay, in practice uppercancelling means that it actually has a solid combo in place. Unfortunately, Bash pushes mobs away from the player, making it incredibly difficult to follow up. All of this leads to a rather difficult to play spell class with pretty low dps.

Spoiler: ”Yraw”

Yraw: At low level it seems like warrior is a mostly average class. Warrior at endgame is flawed because the meta as of now is more on the glass side, this is because a lot of bosses in wynncraft have a heal or health regen. Dr. Legendary for example would be a great boss for tanking, but since the dr has heal, any attempts to fight the boss without cheesing it is futile. Other bossfights such as EO, the problem is that EO has wretches. If you don’t manage to kill the wretches you lose 90% true hp, on classes like tank mage this is not a problem, you can simply heal back to full. On warrior it has no way to sustain itself other than the small buff from warscream. Because the wretches do true damage, everyone loses 90% HP equally, this is equal, but not very fair to tanky playstyles. There are many types of tank playstyles you can choose, the first main group is being able to not take damage in the first place, this is what warrior was meant to be. The second group is being able to recover from damage, this is where we see tank mage and shaman. Warrior has to make sure not to take damage because it has no form of sustain, it’s obviously a support class that kites mobs to it so the other players can deal damage, but the main endgame boss (Which is supposed to be a raid boss) does not move at all. This makes it impossible for warrior to really help in EO. Add the fact that group play in wynn is very rare, and warrior just seems like it was made for a meta that simply does not exist anymore.

Spoiler: ”Epicness937”

Epicness937: Warrior is a really weird class that unfortunately is screwed over by wynn mechanics and poor design. Compared to every other class warrior has the most weaknesses exploitable by mobs and players in pvp and pve. It has no range, it has no healing, it fails at crowd control, it tanks worse than mage, it struggles with dealing consistent damage, ect.
To start with: Bash. Bash does way too much knockback to really be consistent for damage but also doesn’t do enough knockback or damage to really be a crowd control spell. Plus the 50% damage boost after the 2nd hit is bugged making that aspect useless as well.
Charge is mostly fine as-is in my opinion in functionality.
Uppercut is a weird spell. I really think it should cost eight mana instead of ten though. The spell does a good job at dealing damage as it should when used optimally (more on that later) and upper canceling is a nice feature to keep the class almost viable.

War scream is a nice spell and with the recently added aoe change is a lot more useful offensively. However against bosses with knockback resistance it's utterly useless.
When building melee warrior you struggle to get close to mobs/bosses for long enough amounts of time to survive. Low agility eta warrior is barely viable due to this, and tier stacking warrior without a ton of lifesteal really is just bad. Thankfully at least warrior has five very powerful melee options with a lot of lifesteal.

Spell warrior also has a ton of problems. Very few spell weapons are actually good for some reason. Mythics outside of apoc are all at least good (collapse is still kinda eh) at spell but beyond that there are very limited options. The weapons that I would say are the strongest are more mana steal focused which becomes difficult because warrior has a very difficult time approaching due to all the knockback and lack of melee range. Then most of the mana regen options have such low damage that there just is very little point to bother with spell warrior.

Then there is just the flat out lack of an ability to tank. The hpr buffs I hope will help a bit for warrior but really unless you are using guardian and/or boreal or an insanely high lifesteal tier stack build you really cannot tank effectively and you’re better off using a warrior in a party to deal damage and a high hp mage to tank instead. Sure warrior can take more hits than mage at once but mage can heal and because of this just flat out out-tanks warrior in nearly every way outside of not being oneshot. Right now given that outside of the eye we really don’t have raid style bosses a tank isn’t that important in a party so I suppose that might be a reason this is overlooked.
Okay time to write about each specific archetype on warrior :)
ETW warrior is really odd. Oddly being super glassy works well on the tank class. This is because of the high base defense and war scream. Weapons like quinque, infidel, and thrunda really shine in ETW builds when using mixed mana setups. Pure mana steal warrior on the other hand is very lackluster and not really a good choice simply because warrior has a very hard time getting really close up against mobs and bosses without taking a lot of hits. Meaning mana steal warrior tends to need a lot of life steal sustain for it to work well.

ETF heavy melee is just like any other heavy melee and heavy hybrid class. Strong and tanky with enough sustainability to solo most boss fights in the game. Like any other class this archetype doesn’t really have any serious problems.

ETA tier stacking on warrior doesn’t work particularly well for two reasons. Firstly Rikter and Harwrol are not particularly amazing when it comes to dps potential, and secondly the archetype is inherently glassy and on warrior glass and melee mix very poorly… Alkatraz being a mythic doesn’t really count but it only works in this build type because the dps it can output is among the highest in the game.

EWF warrior I have not tried in game since the hpr buffs. Pre hpr buffs it was an alright tank option but generally outclassed by other spell builds. The newly buffed ignition is likely very strong in these kinds of builds due to its high damage and the archetype’s ability to use hpr effectively. Tidebinder is also quite good in this setup due to how massively it amplifies water and fire defenses. Outside of this there are not many great options for this playstyle Bedruthan is generally stronger on EWA and Idol on TWA and WFA. I do plan on further testing to see how good exactly this hpr oriented spell tank is.
EWA warrior relies on Harwrol, Zephra and Bedruthan for EWA spell (don’t try idol or tide…) and overall this playstyle “works” I guess but it's nothing really great. The low amounts of life steal and mana steal to accompany mana regen are nice however the weapons available are just meh. (Harwrol is alright I guess, Zephra punishes the playstyle, and Bedruthan’s damage is meh). Bouncy hero EWA tho…that’s where it's at

EFA warrior is the stronger option of the tierstacking meta. Diminar and Apoc are often built this way as this archetype provides more overall sustainability than ETA which is something warrior really needs to not die when abusing melee. I also expect that undying will make its way to this list of EFA tierstack weapons.

TWF warrior is a powerful spell option but outside of mythics (I haven’t tested the new ignition here so maybe it works) this playstyle isn’t particularly great for warrior. EWF warrior can provide similar damage but also generally as much or more mana sustain as well as hp regen. I’ve tested tidebinder, quinque, (old) ignition, thrunda, and idol on this playstyle and really found that only the mythics worked well. And let's not talk about Harbinger of fate...

TWA is the peak of generic spell damage builds. But it works on warrior so whatever. Quinque, Tidebinder, Infidel, Zephra, Idol, Hero, and Thrunda all work very well with this archetype due to it’s high damage nature and agility being so good right now.

TFA from what I am seeing, and tested in wynndata, is actually not bad on warrior but also not amazing. This play style seems to take advantage of warrior’s biggest strengths while also exploiting warrior’s biggest weakness. Tanky skill points and high lifesteal are huge on this class and provide insane sustainability allowing for a lot of survivability. However a reliance on mana steal with warrior generally is very inconsistent and can often result in death due to warrior’s struggles to get in close against bosses. I have yet to test this ingame however I expect it to be an average or maybe above average archetype for warrior.

WFA is in my opinion the strongest type of warrior at its fullest power. The defenses it can obtain and the spell sustain is insane. Nearly any fire, air, or water weapon works well with this archetype. The only struggle is fighting bosses with heal walls….you cannot win. I have had times when using WFA tidebinder that I couldn’t win the fights against bosses simply because they healed faster than I could deal damage. I could spam “Boreal Idol” and tell you to join my cult but really outside of hpr abuse with mythics this archetype is meh.

Rainbow warrior just exists lol. Supernova is just a random spell spear that can just deal enough damage to be usable. Proxima is a nice melee option but outclassed by other options (and post chestplate of ineptitude nerf is not that great…) and collapse is a pathetic excuse of a mythic that just exists in the abyssal hellhole of the unsellable on trademarket realm.

Spoiler: ”Selvut”

Selvut: Yeah, nah. I disagree with a lot of the points made. The knock-up on uppercut is more a problem because it ignores mobs’ ingrained knockback stats, which Multihits does as well, because the flinging of mobs barely even lasts a second- it resolves faster than Multihits does, so it’s not really a DPS loss unless you’re getting into supermeta, which 99% of players aren’t. And even then, there’s uppercancelling if you really can’t stand it. That ain’t the problem. The knockback on skills is more valuable than it seems, and isn’t strictly a bad thing, unlike how y’all seem to say. It can be mildly inconvenient if you have a ranged mob sitting there, but most cases where this would be relevant (i.e. boss battles) have mobs with less knockback sustain, so you’re not going to be knocking them away any faster than you could possibly advance on them. Everything I mentioned up above isn’t an issue more than just getting used to it. The issue is the tertiary aspects on the spells are just...contradictory. If those got fixed up, Warrior could be so much more of a team player.

Spoiler: ”Hot Sauce”

Hot Sauce: Warrior is the worst class for dealing with ranged enemies, as none of its spells (haha warrior spell) can really do well against ranged enemies, and charge is… a weak mobility spell. Also, warrior spells just… suck. Like, a lot. Since so many of warrior’s spells knock the enemy to who knows where, or literally 15 blocks into the air, it’s a massive pain to get any sort of consistent DPS using spells. Uppercut will pretty much give the enemy a few seconds of immunity, unless you uppercancel, unlike multihit, which can still allow damage in air. Oh yeah, the buff cancelling buffs on warrior spells is also a nightmare. Oh, I’ll say this like everyone else has: we stan 8 mana uppercut.

Spoiler: ”By2011”

By2011: (Wars) Without high walk speed, it’s hard to deal with the high knockback. This is relevant not only in terms of you have to catch up to the mob you just hit, but more troublesomely (in my opinion), in an actually difficult war, it’s rather easy to lose track of which mob you just hit. If you can’t find what mob you just hit, they get the opportunity to get healed, which kills warrior’s DPS. Assassin, Archer, Mage, and Shaman’s AoE and lack of stupid high knockback make this problem much less prevalent in their classes. Warrior’s DPS against regular bosses (i.e., ones that take KB from uppercut) is basically completely carried by uppercut-cancelling (or something akin to minimizing the effect of uppercut’s… length). Without intense concentration and/or high ping, this is incredibly inconvenient. At least sustain on warrior works now with HPR :ok_hand: :wynnic_e: :like:

Spoiler: ”Highbread”

Highbread: To summarize my experience with warrior--everything is fine until you run into strong ranged enemies, strong ranged bosses, or janky spell combos.

Spoiler: ”Bart”

Bart: Warrior is actually not that bad of a class, it’s just severely outmatched when compared to the other classes. It’s made to be a tank class in a game that heavily prioritizes damage output, for one (even if that is getting better), and none of the tools it has are unique or desired. Within solo tanking, mage outperforms with heal + ice snake spellspam, assassin outperforms due to vanish and general “get off me” spells, archer outperforms due to inherent speed and arrow shield being a super safe option, even shaman gets its own death circle plus totem shield in which it can tank pretty effectively. When you look at warriors spells, none of them actually have any defensive utility aside from getting mobs away from you- bash pushes mobs away, charge can push mobs away, uppercut pushes mobs up and away, and war scream also pushes mobs away. While technically all defensive, they lack any control over the mob’s position, don’t do a thing against ranged mobs and stop you from continuously damaging, all of which are important parts of tanking that warrior completely fails to deliver on. Offense-wise, warrior is just underwhelming- archer has the funny dps spells, assassin has the funny extradimensional god-channeling damage boost spell (and super nice combos and crowd control, I guess), shaman has the funny trap and mage has the funny air rock- and warrior has the funny glitch needed to even keep up with other classes damage. Yes, uppercancelling exists and gets warrior dps to a relatively good amount, but if you have bad ping, bad fps or bad skill you’re not going to be able to keep that up consistently. And if you’re not using the pretty hard trick to get average damage, you’ll be waiting for mobs to fall down back on your head from an uppercut to bash them a few times, and waiting for them to get back in range if you accidentally bash them too far away. And after all of that, warrior is missing some major things other classes do get: no freeze (a short slow from bash only), a heal (doesn’t need one but it sure makes mage a more effective tank class), a counter to ranged mobs (warscream is very low power and pushes the ranged mob forever out of your reach), a debuff cleanse (any spell of warrior’s except uppercut could actually get one, and it still wouldn’t even bring warrior up to assassin level), extra movement (no speed buff, but more importantly a very lackluster movement spell that doesn’t help you escape anything very well), a way to ignore damage (FUCKING VANISH (and also totem with small projectiles haha)), a way to pull mobs closer to you (can be seen as a counter to ranged mobs but is also a helpful comboing tool), an actual defensive spell (aura and arrow shield are actually so good for defense, you can just cast ‘em and let them do their thing without needing to actively not die) and did I mention quick, fast and strong spells (bash does not count, sorry)? Warrior does have a few unique abilities, sure, but most of them are also done well or better by other classes: Taunt is stuck on a random necklace while it should really be a shift secondary spell option like uppercut has, and is done fairly well by assassin’s spin attack anyway. Warscream has the best longer boosts in the game- but that’s nothing compared to the added utility of totem and vanish, while using warscream is actually penalizing you for using it most of the time. It has very nice “get off me” spells, but between multihit, arrow shield, ice snake, aura and not to mention all the better movement spells, that argument doesn’t really go up, even when all your spells do that. Especially when all your spells do that.

Bash: Quite a nice spell, but it has a bigger push than uppercut can reach with the second bash- and the damage just isn’t that great, with spin attack and arrow storm doing the same thing but much more effectively and still having more damage bash just becomes a somewhat boring spell that, despite being easy to spam and keeps you decently protected, isn’t ideal and should probably get some more damage or something interesting happening with the second bash that isn’t a dysfunctional damage buff you’ll never get.

Charge: Where in my opinion the long-awaited warrior debuff cleanse should be. Charge is a pretty bad way of getting away from mobs, having a small height boost being followed by an immediate spike to the ground, resulting in 10 blocks being traveled at best, all the while being vulnerable from any ranged attacks or mobs that the strange inconsistent hitbox doesn’t quite reach, and immediately halting if you get hit. Compared to the 20 free blocks plus blind from teleport, the possibly even more blocks from escape along with a free stun and an incredibly useful speed buff, and even haul can make a world of difference in escaping high over a mob and being on the other side of the already aura-ing totem. Vanish is vanish.

Uppercut: Is actually a pretty solid spell. The upwards knockback actually stops you from getting hit pretty well, and isn’t that long anymore, while still doing some hefty damage. I think its range should be a bit longer so it can reach past bash-spammed mobs a bit easier, but otherwise uppercut is actually quite nice. Is what I would say, if this wasn’t one of two most expensive spells, the other effectively having three uses. Why doesn’t uppercut just cost 8 mana, like, I don’t know, every other 3rd spell?

Warscream: Damage and defense buff is nice. The entire existence of war scream otherwise is fundamentally flawed and it’s also pretty bad in dealing damage and doing anything useful. It has range to be useful against ranged enemies, but pushes them away so you won’t be able to ever deal with them. There isn’t any deep analysis here, just a general disappointment with a spell I use for its intended purpose multiple times less than even uproot. Rework really appreciated.

For warriors melee and general weapons, there is quite some left desired: second lowest base damage, to begin with, which already gives it a disadvantage in melee builds (while warrior is supposed to be quite good at playing melee, I feel like- even when ignoring the whole “warrior spell sucks use melee” the community keeps repeating), and not many spears actually end up being useful for giving damage in a build. Melee warrior tends to just use the fire life steal/health regen options like Apocalypse, Diaminar, Ignition, Undying and Proxima, or a few occasional high(er) damage options like Quinque, Harwrol, Braker and Zephra Shredder. These tend to be fine, but also struggle when facing bosses with a lot of range and damage, as most of these builds can and will get spammed to death at a distance by bosses like Mummyboard, Death Metal and Dr. Legendary. Spell warriors tend to have an easier time with that as charge is much more effective when being spammed (as in, you can keep building height and actually use the soaring part of the spell). Spell builds are pretty limited with only the mythic spears (which I otherwise kept out of the discussion on purpose (even if the big gap between mythics and legendaries is a problem on warrior)), The Forsaken and Hive Infused Spear being considered good, with a few like Tidebinder, Harwrol and Braker being pretty decent as well, and a few others are quite good too but only with the forbidden arts of hybrid warrior- probably the hardest class to use hybrid with. Spell warrior is actually by far not as bad as people are making it out to be, but the generally low damage output (uppercancelling being an exception) can be frustrating, and occasionally makes beating bosses with high health regen or who are increasingly spawning other mobs very difficult. It’s safe to say that warriors melee options are nice but are quite limited and I would like to see a bit more variation (air tierstack spear, actual heavy melee spear, fast non-air spears etc.) and spell spears should definitely be looked at, when melee spears tend to perform best for some elements.


Overall, warrior: not bad, not great, but extremely outclassed.

Spoiler: ”btdmaster”

Btd: Aight so: My general opinion is just that warrior is basically outclassed at everything it does. Assassin for the most part is just plain better as a melee class, which is really not that great. The exact same range, better damage, better spell combos, easier ranged mob killing, it just all adds up for assassin>warrior. It seems the only way to make spell warrior viable and competitive with other spell builds from other classes is uppercancelling, which is reliant on ping and somewhat tough timings (depending on how much you lag and how often). It also lacks a way to get to ranged enemies quickly, as generally people don’t build for warscream spam as their main way of damage, and so is at a disadvantage to rangers and can get melted in the process of getting to such mobs.

________________________________

Section 2: Suggestions on how to improve the current warrior (Less extreme suggestions)

Spoiler: ”Selector”

Selector: Remove the gigantic knockup on Uppercut; it’s completely unnecessary and lowers DPS. Increase damage boost and damage resistance on Warscream. Make elemental defenses matter.

Spoiler: ”Treebeard”

Treebeard (In a discord message):My really only feedback on Warrior is: Make Bash have more range, do knockback diagonally downwards, reduce knockback, possibly make it stun, reduce the knockback of uppercut by a little, give charge more velocity and please fix its vertical movement, make war scream give vanilla-like regen, make it deal less knockback but make it like uproot/aura so it isn't affected by knockback resistance, possibly remove attack boost, but Druser has a good point when it comes to annoying short duration strength boosts with melee, so keeping it might be best idea

That's basically my feedback on it

Also item feedback on warrior

MAKE WARRIOR ITEMS NOT SUCK

(Maybe increase the baseline for warrior slightly?)

Spoiler: ”Hot Sauce”

Hot Sauce: Uhhh you know it’d be nice if spells didn’t cancel out buffs from other spells, yep.

Spoiler: ”Epicness937”

Epicness937: Bash’s damage boost needs to be fixed and the knockback either needs to be increased for crowd control to work or (ideally) decreased to make it a reliable damage option. Charge should cost three mana at zero intel, not four. Uppercut being eight mana would make sense to me also however due to the power of upper canceling leaving it at ten is understandable. Most importantly war scream should give some form of health regeneration at level III. I also wouldn’t complain if war scream got a bit more damage for offensive usage.

Spoiler: ”Druser”

Druser: Remove Bash’s knockback effect entirely. Instead, push the Slowness up to Slowness 4 or 5. This would let Bash be a nice damage spell that near-freezes the opponent in place, allowing for good follow-up. While this means Bash loses the knockback utility, Warrior already has much better knockback utility from Warscream’s initial hit anyway - Bash’s knockback is a major downside. This lets Warrior follow up on attacks properly, and also provides it a nice extra tool against melee mobs.


I also think Charge could really use some added mobility. Being able to angle it, similar to how Vanish currently works, would give Warrior the ability to actually dodge effectively, and pull it out of being the singular class that has little to no vertical ascension ability.


I don’t think Bash should give a damage boost. All it does is make melee heavily reliant on spells, tilting the class’ melee options toward heavy melee. Bash is already a main spell that isn’t going to be not seeing use otherwise. If Warrior’s dps is lacking even after these changes, modifications to spell multipliers can do this more cleanly.


Regarding Warscream and taunt, I personally favor that one suggestion on the forums that has various types of attacks give taunt counters to mobs.


Regarding ranged attack mitigation, I’ll go into more detail in Section 3.

Spoiler: ”Yraw”

Yraw: I think warscream could get a buff, and maybe make warrior take less kb and more immunity frames.

Spoiler: ”By2011”

By2011: Please something besides /class to get rid of slow/weakness.

Spoiler: ”Selvut”

Selvut: Bash slows mildly and if you hit enough mobs with it, gives you a strength boost. This isn’t fine, because it’s giving a lot of utility to one spell where it could be spread around better, and the strength boost is ignored if you have War Scream’s strength active along with only lasting a couple of seconds. It’d be infinitely better if Bash reduced enemy defenses, but I feel like things should get split up instead- focus Bash into slowing. Make it inflict a more noticeable slowness effect instead of having the strength boost effect that only works for you. Let that be the class’s big CC thing- good knockback with the double hit for keeping enemies at bay and slowing them down for you and your party.


Charge is a great movement spell, dealing 150% damage(!) and, especially with Aerodynamics, is probably the most controllable one out of all the classes. You can go basically exactly where you want to go. The problem comes with the new “Inspire” effect, which gives you a very high level of damage resistance for like...two seconds, if you hit enough mobs with Charge. This concept later was added to Bash with the strength boost, only this one DOESN’T ignore War Scream’s resistance- it OVERWRITES it. This effect was intended to encourage Warriors to pitch themselves into groups of mobs and also have a way to get out- they can just tank the damage with the extreme damage resistance...except if you’re using Charge correctly you’d never land in the middle of the mobs anyways, it lasts for such a short amount of time that it’s useless anyways, and the fact that it removes your primary Resistance effect from War Scream makes it an active detriment to use. It NEEDS to go. If you want Charge to work for pitching yourself into a group and everything, let’s take some inspiration from mobs here: Have an explosion at the end which deals some knockback and an extra hit in an AOE. Like, 75% damage or so would probably be alright- it’d give Warrior the strongest-damaging movement spell in the game at a potential 225% if done like this, and with Aerodynamics (or just charging while looking down) this can be a cheap and effective way to deal damage up close. If we really wanted to make it valuable, the explosion AOE at the end could do something like adding a Weakness effect for a short time, or if we really wanted to get spicy, a blind (but I personally think a blind would be a horrible idea).


Uppercut is alright, the damage buffs given to it (going from 200/100/50 damage to 300/50/50) were good, and the length of its knock being reduced to less than Multihits’ is great and all, but it’s basically just damage and nothing else. Now, Mage’s and Assassin’s are also like that, but Mage’s hits a wide area and Assassin’s let you have more control over where the enemy goes when you unlock Force. Warrior’s...lets you jump with the mob if you hold Shift? It’s a cool thing that can be occasionally used to dodge some spells or do some fancy mobility tricks, but ultimately it does nothing particularly useful. My suggestion is to give it the first upgrade of Bash’s inspire-like effect, and make it actually give mobs a damage vulnerability instead of giving the player Strength. This gives it more use in the early game and lets the last hit act as a double-sided buff. Enemies knock down quicker with the last hit, which also means you get a longer usable duration on the damage vulnerability. Even something like 25% vulnerability would be massive for group play and really give Uppercut a better justification than “Warrior got 2 square of 5 in spell so warrior spell should bad” for having a 10 mana cost.


War Scream...honestly War Scream is fine as it is, I’d say. I don’t really feel like it needs anything else to be useful. I know a lot of people beg for a regen or heal effect, but I don’t feel like that’s at all necessary. The knockback is good, Air Shout is amazing, and the only flaws it has right now regarding the effects it gives are due to other spells interfering with it. MAYBE give it a cleansing effect, MAYBE, or subsume the Taunt effect into it immediately...but adding a proper aggro system would also fix that, and that’s a whole other can of worms.

Spoiler: Highmore

Highmore: Longer melee range for warrior as it would be thematically fitting and cool. Daggers and spears having the same melee range is e.

Spoiler: ”btdmaster”

Btd: I think that if all the bugs relating to warrior’s various damage buffs and damage resistance were fixed, warrior would be a lot better (and particularly warscream), especially if they were to stack too. I’m kind of torn over bash less kb, though. Anyway, more melee range is both thematic AND a nice buff, as for some reason a knife has the same range as a spear???

Spoiler: ”Bart”

Bart: Not much to say here that I haven’t already put in the first section, but
- Bash either needs to be the only spell that pushes mobs, or lose the push and instead slow heavily.

- Charge is just generally pretty damn bad if you can’t spam it, and I think this is where a debuff cleanse makes much more sense than the weird damage boost it currently has.

- Uppercut is mostly fine, but could use some more range on it’s initial hit, and definitely needs to be lowered to 8 mana cost.

- War Scream I have seen many very interesting ideas on, but all I can say is: keep the buffs, keep the range, otherwise rework it completely. Or at least give it the Taunt effect when shifted.


Also I fully support the melee hit becoming a longer range. Why else would I tape this blade on a stick when I get the same reach as a blade without a stick or tape.

Section 3: Ideas from out of left-field (Spell reworks, class changes, all that jazz all goes here, this is for the more extreme changes)

Spoiler: ”Chry”

Chry: Give warrior vanish.

Spoiler: ”Kurre”

Kurre: give vanisher war

Spoiler: ”Bart”

Bart: delete vanish to make warrior still not used but save the world, probably

Spoiler: ”Selector”

Selector: I think the most important thing for Warrior is to retain its intended identity; a tank. Right now, pretty much any class can be a tank, and a big issue with that is the fact that armor and defensive stats are determined not by what class you play, but by which items you equip. In general, each class brings to the table something it’s intended to do. Archer brings fast high damage at long range. Assassin brings high damage at close range. Mage brings slow big hitting damage at long range, with a side of also being able to be a support class with decent healing and the slow from Ice Snake. Shaman brings a unique playstyle centered around a summonable object (the totem). What does Warrior bring? Not tankiness, that’s for sure. That said, there are a few ways Warrior can be more tanky. First off, Warrior can have a higher defensive multiplier than other classes by a ridiculous margin (higher than current by at least 2x). Secondly, Warrior-specific weapons can be made more defensive (more hp, hpr, hpr%, elemental defenses, the defense stat, the agility stat, and more). Thirdly would be a change to armor items to be Warrior-only equippable (which we all know can’t happen right now because that system is bugged for some reason). Fourth would be to change Warrior’s skills for more defensive options such as a bigger damage resist buff on Warscream or even a built-in heal for each enemy hit. In addition, you could make Warrior more buff-focused and give enemies hit by Uppercut reduced armor for a few seconds, or stun enemies with the first hit of bash for 1 second. Then again, maybe I’m wrong about Warrior being a tank class and it’s actually meant to be a heavy-damage berserker type class that rushes in without a care for its own health. Something similar could be done by making Charge have a longer range, or straight up reworking one of the spells to make you “slash wildly in the direction you’re facing for a short time” (similar to arrow storm (without Hawkeye effect), but instead of arrows, it would be blades slashing). In general, I think it would be much easier to rework the class from the ground up, but tweak the baselines on weapons a little to make up for the lack of damage on sub-mythic tier weapons. Maybe the base stats are fine too, but a straight up rework definitely wouldn’t hurt.

Spoiler: ”Kio”

Kio: I personally have the opposite of Selector’s Opinion, where instead of Warrior being buffed to become a support/tank class, I think it should get buffs similar to how Mage’s been buffed to make it a better solo class. Adding more difficult endgame content that makes warrior a good choice for group play is so much easier said than done - you can’t just flip the “Add endgame content” lever and then bim bam Warrior is useful. The issues with warrior are more fundamental to the class than to the content, since all other classes perform well at all content, making content that warrior is good and useful for is kind of avoiding the problem and just creates other problems.


That being said, how does one improve Warrior as a class? Let’s begin with the spells, which are kind of the main difference between classes, maybe the only meaningful one. Now, if all these changes were added I’d argue warrior might be a tad overpowered, so here’s just a few ideas I had to buff warrior’s current spells:


Bash: Bash is a pretty neato spell, and to buff it I think it’d be best to look at a very similar spell, spin. Comparing the two, there’s some notable differences; while both are semi-short-ranged simple damage spells, Bash has a few upsides and significantly more downsides than spin does:

Bash takes a second or so to deal its full damage. It’s not too much, but compared to the instant *fwoom* mob dies of spin, the divided damage on bash is a detriment to using it in rapid succession to deal damage. Additionally, comparing the CC given by both spells, Spin’s blind is leagues ahead of Bash’s mediocre, barely noticeable slow. My suggestion would be to either give Bash a meaningful form of CC, in my opinion, a blind (I mean, seriously, the thing sends up dirt everywhere, even the player gets blinded by that spell), or to condense the damage into a single burst. Maybe both. That being said, it’s not a terrible spell, it just needs some more synergy with the rest of warrior’s kit (something that really seems to be a theme with warrior’s design, a horrible lack of synergy).

Charge: I like charge, I really do. It’s a seriously basic, but super fun movement spell. But I really don’t like its anti-synergy with the rest of Warrior’s kit. I get that there’s some gripes against Shaman’s forced synergy but at least in the case of shaman using all the spells doesn’t screw you out of the effects of some of the spells. In my opinion, charge should be an ideal gap closer, and to improve charge, we should look at another amazing spell, Assassin’s vanish (Honestly the meme that warrior is offbrand assassin isn’t too inaccurate). Assassin’s vanish is just… an amazing spell. Probably the best spell in wynncraft. When leaping 13 blocks and making you practically invulnerable for 5 seconds are just some of your lesser effects, you know that you’re a busted spell. Long story short, I think there’s something to be said about giving warrior’s charge at least some of the things that make vanish so good. Primarily, this practical invulnerability. I think charge should get a massive damage reduction or even full-on I-Frames for a very very short period during the charge (like, 1 second starting the moment it’s cast). This would allow charge to be a very effective gap closer and giving further synergy for warrior’s short-range damage kit.

Uppercut: I’ve honestly not played warrior enough to really see the weaknesses of uppercut besides the insane mana cost so… maybe fix that and besides that it’s fine I suppose or listen to someone else who’s actually played a significant amount of warrior.

Warscream: Buff powers are cool. A theme I'm noticing is that in a vacuum, all of warrior’s spells are actually pretty neato. But uh, what’s the point of a knockback buff spell to buff your defense and damage slightly when you have no built in sustain to make use of the extra defense too well, have little in terms of damage abilities that work together well, and have a short range kit that actively suffers from enemies being knocked away?

I personally feel that warscream has the potential to be the perfect counter to warrior’s glaring weakness- enemies being far away that can hit warrior while warrior can’t hit them back. As such, I propose a somewhat strange change. Give Warscream an “Air Shield”.



I was going to make a diagram for this, but it appears Druser made one for me anyways, so I can put even less effort into making this response. Anyways, I suggest that warrior’s warscream either creates a stationary shield in front of the player, or, the version that druser liked, a cone that will destroy projectiles within a cone in front of the player. There’s upsides and downsides to both versions, and both would solve the problem of needing to deal with pesky projectile spam. First, the shield; when warscream is cast, it creates a shield that moves according to your view for a few seconds, kind of like a more snappy multihit mob movement, but for a personal projectile-destroying shield. This option has the upside of being more of a temporary pre-buff, similar to arrow shield, which allows you to enter a known area of spam. The other option is Druser’s Angry Cone of Projectile Destruction (Sounds like a D&D spell to me). This is a more skill-based option, and would require quick reactions to delete projectiles from the air. Personally I feel this cone of delete should last for a second or so, so it can fully stop a flurry of projectiles like an arrow storm. The final option would be to just change the projectile launched as a part of the second upgrade to delete projectiles.


By2011: Damb ever just scream so hard you destroy projectiles

Spoiler: ”Druser”

Druser: Ranged attack mitigation is the only thing I have left to cover in this section, since I’ve talked about everything else I wanted to say in Section 2. Personally I favor the idea that Kiocifer came up with and that I mocked up a diagram for - that Warscream would block projectiles when cast. The extent of the range depends on how strong or weak it turns out to be - I think anywhere from a 90-degree cone to dropping all projectiles in a spherical range around the player would work. This covers up Spell Warrior’s biggest shortcoming compared to other classes, and probably the main reason why people call Spell Warrior bad, the inability to deal with ranged attacks whatsoever.

Spoiler: ”Euouae”

Euouae: Give war scream taunt from the get go. I find it a little dumb that the tankiest class needs a major ID in order to be a true tank in a group. Also tone down the knockback on Bash and… to be honest, I’m not completely sure what to do about uppercut.


Oh yeah also funny funny, I want to watch as a horde of retaliating gazers attempt to kill me as they are disintegrated by my fellow TFA shaman.

Spoiler: ”Hot Sauce”

Hot Sauce: Adding taunt as a shift toggle on war scream would be nice imo, because not all warrior build is tank (see etw warrior). Increasing weapon base damage would also be nice, because as of now, you have to sacrifice a lot more than other classes to get decent damage. I’m not sure if this would be reasonable, but personally, I would like Bash to be condensed into one hit, instead of a “first explosion” and “second explosion.” This would allow warrior to get higher spell DPS without losing out on almost half of Bash’s damage by spamming it.

Spoiler: ”Epicness937”

Epicness937: I’d like to see a rework to bash, I honestly don’t know how but I’d just like to see it remade to a more useful state. The biggest change I would like to see to warrior is just a flat out item rebalance to baselines for this class specifically. I get that baselines have a lot of problems already but I think warrior weapons shouldn’t have damage reductions due to being tanky. Weapons like Tidebinder and Harwrol in my opinion should be dealing a lot more damage than they currently do but have lower amounts of damages due to having ids like hp, defenses, and stuff which i really think shouldn’t happen on warrior. I also think more weapons should be designed to give defensive skillpoint utility and elemental defenses as well as hp. Of weapon reworks I made in my spare time I added damage to a lot of legendaries that just suck right now. And did things like give % defenses to Harwrol, more sustainability to Bedruthan, and making Zephra not shoot you in the foot for using it. This leads into my next point in which it feels very much like the difference between legendaries and mythics on warrior is FAR larger than it should be and more than other classes. For example on assassin most legendaries hit spins of like 6.5-8k and mythics hit like 7.5k-9k (and then Cata but we can ignore that). For archer Legendaries hit generally 9-12k bombs (Orange Lily, Gales and Torrential i’ve seen go even further) and mythics then hit like 13k-20k which is a bigger difference than assassin but still not absolutely insane. Then there is warrior….we have mythics that hit 16k to well over 20k uppers and then a tank mythic that hits 14k. Then with legendaries we got Wick, The Forsaken, and Quinque which can reach mythic level damage (ive pushed the latter two past 18k and Wick just over 17k) however this is only in mana steal builds on a class that has a really difficult time approaching. Legendaries such as Harwrol, Bedruthan, Tidebinder, and Zephra don’t really do enough damage to really be worth using. I mean they hit like 5k shy of their mythic counterparts in uppercuts if not even less (note most of these tend to top out around 13k which is about 3k shy of the lower limit for a good hero setup). This difference really causes a huge problem for the class’s non mythic viability. And Don’t even get me started on the rares. Assassin and archer both have a bunch of good and fun rares. Warrior has...uhhhh Black Amaranth and Undying as well as Diminar (the latter two are very strong melee weapons with lots of life steal which is one of the few places warrior actually can build well) basically every other rare is just utterly useless (despite my love for charging flame and supernova I cannot deny that they suck.) Lastly there is crafteds, the crafted damage baseline for warrior weapons feels strangely low compared to most other weapons. After further investigation it actually might be more that warrior crafteds are the only ones not busted…

Spoiler: ”Yraw”

Yraw: Warriors main issue is that it was made for a meta that doesn't exist in Wynn anymore. We’ve seen time and time again that group play isn’t done much at all. One way to make warrior fit the meta is to make warrior more viable in solo combat. This would mean warrior would need some form of built-in sustain, because while tanks may not be able to deal a lot of damage, the point of a tank is to win at the end no matter what. One way to do this is to give warscream a small regeneration buff, or put frames of resistance to all damage. Bash should change into a spell that pushes opponents away from the area, this would be very useful in EO, where gazers can swarm you and kill you. Maybe even give warrior an ability to become more resistant when you’re at full health, if warrior is built to not take damage from the get go, make it so it won’t take a first hit. Warrior also needs a simple damage buff to its spells, this would make it more flexible for warrior to fit into the meta.

Spoiler: ”btdmaster”

Btd: I personally have not played much in the way of warrior, however, it seems to really suck at its main purpose, which is tanking. I would definitely agree with giving it taunt by default, or at least as a spell upgrade, and also some way to deal with ranged units better (my friend is a warrior main and used to complain all the time about this when he played a lot). Charge could maybe see a change to benefit warrior vs ranged mobs, such as much less kb and a very high damage resistance during the actual travel. Having more vertical range would be an interesting idea, as well as projectile shattering from warscream or just a warscream rework in general like what has been mentioned above by Selector or Kio. Something needs to be done, at any rate, or warrior will stay unpopular and niche for the most part.

 

I love sleeping instead of participating in intelligent discussion!

sad

read the thread though it's full of smart people saying smart things

 

I really need to get discord

 

9/10 atlas inc members recommend this toothpaste war scream getting taunt by default

hey edit: wtfrick why did kiocifer subsume by2011's valued opinion in section 3 into a different spoiler

 

as a long time warrior main Thank You For This Post

my thoughts:

• 100% agree on warrior needing a built in taunt. i personally am of the "shift on war scream" camp but i'll take anything at this point if it's supposed to be a tank it needs a taunt
• warrior needs a higher base damage for sure, especially if a proper aggro system ever gets implemented
• imo uppercancelling really shouldn't be factored in to discussion? it's a glitch and as someone who missed a lot of meta in the time between like 2017 and now i'm gonna be real i only found out about it through this thread basically casual players won't use it
• longer attack range. please. i honestly thought it was built in already when i first started playing wynncraft and was disappointed when that wasn't the case. actually maybe a bit of an effect like mage's wand where it goes through multiple enemies might be cool and differ it from assassin + help with crowd control
• the slow effect from bash is barely noticeable as is, very much agree with making it a stun
• charge's inspire effect is.... basically useless. iframes while charging would probably work

okay looking at this list this really is mostly just reiterating the parts of the thread i liked the most but here is my thoughts. i still stand by warrior not being the meme class lots of people make it out to be but it does need some rework in order to make it played as often as the rest of the classes are

 

p sure uppercancelling, while not necessarily a planned mechanic, isn't a glitch. since bash's knockback overrides vertical knockback, it makes sense that it functions like this. players just recently started learning that you could do that

 

ok the problem is that it really is once you start comparing it to everything else

 

yeah ok

 

I just live those atlas posts

________________________________

And ofc I did, try it!

 

As a Warrior main, this thread makes me really happy. I've always noticed Warrior is generally weaker than the other classes, but my brain isn't big enough to understand how exactly, much less put it into words and come up with solutions to it. I hope in the next update the devs redo Warrior, and if they listen to this feedback, I think they'll absolutely do it right.

 

If war scream does get a shift to taunt thing, can we make it so it “burns” enemies (IE it adds a constant light damage tick to hit enemies that constantly reapplies the taunt)? Because right now the taunt on the Major ID feels kind of inconsistent, and you kind of need to spam it in groups

 

is the point of the DoT here to reapply taunt or for damage? i could see it if it is to constantly reapply taunt
never used strobelight so idk how taunt works e

 

To reapply taunt

 

Give war scream absorption that gives like 40% of your hp for 3 minutes, as well as the other buffs that it gives now. I think that would immediately solve the tanking problem.

 

Maybe you could make an in depth thread on Endgame in Wynn? Like what to do and stuff.

 

I certainly agree with a lot of what people are saying here. Warrior + ranged mobs = dead warrior. The crowd control spells are mediocre, and either don't allow you to do damage or don't allow enemies to do damage, unlike all the other classes which allow both. Spell combos or chains are also pretty awful, since everything has knockback. Also, the damage is much lower than other classes. Melee is a better story, but gets dull and ranged mobs are still scarier than an army of Cybels. I had significantly more trouble beating bosses with ranged attacks as warrior, as the best I could do was often halve the distance between us and then get pushed back. Highly mobile mobs are the same, as if you have low walkspeed and mana regen, you generally can't catch them and your spells will usually miss.

 

can't make a guide on something that doesn't exist

 

Bumping + An announcement for the next one; I think this'll be weekly, so starting from now, every monday should have one of these drop. Given the results of the poll, Pvp will be the next topic, and I'll add nicktree's suggestion to talk about endgame content to that post's poll so we can figure out what the next topic is to talk about. Of course, more suggestions for things to cover will still always be accepted, so go ahead and tell us why we should cover the current state of slabspam in Cinfras or something.

 

rising property prices in gelibord due to an increase in lootrunners in the area
terrible wealth distribution in the city of almuj