Weekly Community Discussion (24/01/2020) - Ingredient Discussion

I mentioned this before with builds and also to major at one point if I recall and I can kind of agree. We all have this dangerous mindset that we can't share anything really good because of a fear it will get nerfed...I for one have two builds I'm unwilling to share for that reason. With crafteds it's very similar, the high attack tier tailoring recipes and the high Mana armor recipes are generally things you have to make for yourself because no one will tell you as they are to scared for it to get nerfed.

As for dura I also agree because unless you have really high dura and your item is godly it tends to not be worth it. I currently use two crafteds across all 8 ofmy builds and one is a weapon. This is mainly because the amount of scrap to repair to me is to much to deal with compared to the amount of time it lasts. Especially given that for some stupid bs reason durability seems to cause lowered effectiveness at a % value of max and not a fixed value which I really think is stupid. I will however add that the recent buffs to durability base values are really nice however there are still alot of problems that need to be addressed with the system as a whole.

 

The following list features ingredients which happen to be either weaker than average or just super super original or just a bit too op.

Contorted Stone: one of the less useful ingredients, despite being 3 stars. The damage boost it provides via str is somewhat negligible and it hurts durability too much.

Glowbulb Seeds: +35 def and -160 dura for this? For this?

Optic Lens vs. Optic Fiber: the same fucking ingredients except one has more -dura than the other. Why.

Foul Fairy Dust: I don't really get the point of this as neither it's fields of use.

Condensed Darkness: nerf this.

Lost Spirit: -1 charges on this is as stupid as building agility on Divzer.

Leopard Blood: nerf.

 

Fairy needs higher spell % because honestly the -mr for spell is a really neat concept but it's just not a good enough trade off currently....also plasteel stacking for a 1 dura instant mana sidearm is nice lol

Condensed darkness tho? must be missing something ig

I second everyone of these tho :>

A few others i'd like to add personally are

Borange fluff after a year just doesn't feel that good to use in builds because the buffs it gives are low enough that generally i'll opt for a dura booster instead.

Ocea steel in my opinion isn't rewarding enough to use over non crafted rainbow armors. However I can understand this one isn't easy to balance with rainbow being so weird right now.

________________________________

On a double post something else I'd like to add to this discussion is that alot of ingredients feel like they have to wide rolls when you consider that crafteds cannot be re rolled and are insanely expensive. Personally I think some sort of reroll system should be put in place however if that is not ever going to happen then I would personally suggest that some ingredients be given smaller id ranges.

 

yea it fills your pouch up with separate ingredients, not ingredients in bulk which is what ppl are looking for to lvl up

 

Concur on smaller ranges for ingredients, that would be very nice. Especially since there are several with giant ranges.

 

So basically limit ranges? cause right now ingredients are literally whatever the creator felt like+a bit of balancing it seems

 

Also for certain ingredients, the damage boost : skill point ratio seem relatively low. (ex. Deep Ice Core)

 

Is this supposed to be possible? https://www.wynndata.tk/cr/306637244
im not even sure if that counts as powerful or not.
nerf/buff cataratite. Add some positive stat to it so that flipping it isn't as easy because of the positive durability.

 

It’s not even good.. 130 dura with t3 material AND only 40 ish hpr%

 

I mean... there are no other accessories that reach that amount of hpr%... according to wynndata highest hpr% on necklace is 26, highest on bracelet and ring is 20%, and this is all using maxed rolls.

 

Can we give Foul Fairy Dust more negative mana regen and more spell dmg for lunar spine crafteds?


;);));););););)

 

4 major's badge lol

 

Well it's cheaper than most ingredient boosters

 

Bump + can i propose a lunar charm buff to +34% effectiveness? with the rounding down it has decreased lunar charm's uses

 

I want to review some of the effect boosting Ingredients, to see if and when they are worth using.
Here is a graph of how I calculated this: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/djed08bofp
-I only wrote down the best configurations of the bootsters.

Spoiler: Template Description

(x,y) - amount of boosters added,slots unused
Slots Affected - The amount of slots that have been used
Average Slot Bonus - The average bonus for each affected slot
Effect Impact - The total of all the remaining slots and modifiers, then subtracting 6
Min Effective Durability - The minimum durability required to be cost effective

Spoiler: Pride of the Heights

(1,0)
Slots Affected: 1 | Average Slot Bonus: 130% | Effect Impact: +30% | Min Effective Durability: 121+
(2,0)
Slots Affected: 2 | Average Slot Bonus: 130% | Effect Impact: +60% | Min Effective Durability: 121+
(3,0)
Slots Affected: 3 | Average Slot Bonus: 130% | Effect Impact: +90% | Min Effective Durability: 121+

A fair and respectable increase in power, best used with the a highest durability cost ingredients. It should be fine.

Spoiler: Unicorn Horn

(1,0)
Slots Affected: 5 | Average Slot Bonus: 64% | Effect Impact: +220% | Min Effective Durability: 60+
(2,0)
Slots Affected: 4 | Average Slot Bonus: 140% | Effect Impact: +360% | Min Effective Durability: 69+

I have to say Unicorn Horn is kind of OP compared to other options.
I would rather it have a lesser durability cost and reduce the effectiveness to (60%, 20%) or cut in half.

Spoiler: Doom Stone

(1,1)
Slots Affected: 2 | Average Slot Bonus: +75% | Effect Impact: -50% | Min Effective Durability: 107+
(2,0)
Slots Affected: 4 | Average Slot Bonus: +75% | Effect Impact: +100% | Min Effective Durability: 107+

Best used in pairs and it should be a pretty easy to use to get a good power increase. Probably good as is

Spoiler: Decaying Heart

(1,2)
Slots Affected: 3 | Average Slot Bonus: +75% | Effect Impact: -75% | Min Effective Durability: 78+
(2,0)
Slots Affected: 4 | Average Slot Bonus: +62.5% | Effect Impact: +50% | Min Effective Durability: 140+
(2,2)
Slots Affected: 2 | Average Slot Bonus: +75% | Effect Impact: -100% | Min Effective Durability: 117+

it is a bit tricky to use, but it is pretty good as way to substitute high cost ingredients, and you can combo with Elephelk Trunk to just get the durability. Maybe no change is needed.

Spoiler: Bobs Tear

(1,0)
Slots Affected: 2 | Average Slot Bonus: 25% | Effect Impact: -50% | Min Effective Durability: 140+
(2,0)
Slots Affected: 4 | Average Slot Bonus: 25% | Effect Impact: -100% | Min Effective Durability: 140+

I pretty sure that Bobs Tear is mostly useless in any situation, it really only is a hindrance to use unless adding an ingredient that is too expensive to use otherwise. I would say it's buffs should be raised to at max 50%, where it would act as a low cost substitute for the 2 items below it.

Spoiler: Major's Badge

(1,0)UR
Slots Affected: 5 | Average Slot Bonus: -35% | Effect Impact: -175% | Min Effective Durability: 233+
(1,0)LL
Slots Affected: 5 | Average Slot Bonus: -50% | Effect Impact: -250% | Min Effective Durability: inf+(it broke my formula)
(2,1)LL
Slots Affected: 3 | Average Slot Bonus: -83% | Effect Impact: -265% | Min Effective Durability: -1000+(it broke my formula)

UR:

Spoiler: Oh God Here It Comes

what even is this... how does this make sense....
even Bob's Tear, an item I said was mostly useless is better then this...
It is bad... it is just so bad... never use this in the upper right slot....
I know we did not have much clue what was balanced or not at the time,
but this is like pre-major ID Pandemonium...

LL:
Despite my formula breaking I do see some potential as a negative bonus. Basically if you use it on it's own it will have a weird use for having some variety of positive and negative ingredients. However, it can stack well with itself and other negative bonus' for some interesting combos.
All:
As a whole I think the "Under" and "To the Left of" should be changed to have positive numbers and maybe a bit stronger negatives on "Above" and "To the Right of".

Spoiler: Lunar Charm

(1,0)
Slots Affected: 5 | Average Slot Bonus: 33% | Effect Impact: +61% | Min Effective Durability: 53+
(2,0)
Slots Affected: 4 | Average Slot Bonus: 66% | Effect Impact: +64% | Min Effective Durability: 66+

It is kind of a bit too useful with that durability cost, but the power is fine.

Spoiler: Borange Fluff

(1,0)
Slots Affected: 5 | Average Slot Bonus: 12% | Effect Impact: -40% | Min Effective Durability: 0+
(2,0)
Slots Affected: 4 | Average Slot Bonus: 24% | Effect Impact: -104% | Min Effective Durability: 0+

It is a nice little buff that fills in as about half of a slot with no durability cost I can see it being useful when used with high cost ingredients.

Spoiler: Plasteel Plate

(1,0)
Slots Affected: 2 | Average Slot Bonus: -180% | Effect Impact: -140% | Min Effective Durability: -385+(it broke my formula)
(2,0)
Slots Affected: 4 | Average Slot Bonus: -180% | Effect Impact: -280% | Min Effective Durability: -385+(it broke my formula)

I want to say it seems a bit worse then it is, but I think it is still not good enough...
maybe buff it around -230% or something? I am not really sure about inverting ingredients

Spoiler: Obelisk Core

(1,0)
Slots Affected: 1 | Average Slot Bonus: -200% | Effect Impact: -100% | Min Effective Durability: inf+(it broke my formula)
(2,0)
Slots Affected: 2 | Average Slot Bonus: -200% | Effect Impact: -200% | Min Effective Durability: inf+(it broke my formula)
(3,0)
Slots Affected: 3 | Average Slot Bonus: -200% | Effect Impact: -300% | Min Effective Durability: inf+(you broke my formula)

For what it does and what it enables it is pretty good, but it still seems to be lacking potency. Maybe have it be -250% or so, so it improves what it is inverting?

 

where the mana regen stuff for jeweling at- flipping void samples can get u 3/4ms at basically no drawback(up to -130ls lmao), and what does mr get? an ingredient that you can only use 2 of at max pretty much(which is extremely hard to pull off) AND has -sd%, and lots of it.
also idk if it's been mentioned, but condensed darkness needs a nerf asap. 1.3k health, 272sd raw acessories for a mere cost of -4ms is waay too op for spell builds- also @Epicness937 see https://wynndata.tk/cr/779275728
Also, I personally think sp reqs are too high on most ingredients, as crafted sp doesn't count towards armor/weapon reqs. Please add more items with negative reqs, there isn't really very many at all.

 

Please, dear Item Team give us a -1 (or -2...) second spell cost ingredient for woodworking
~thx
Have a nice week :P
~ZockerCam

 

To quote selvut from another thread:

________________________________

Also, may I mention this: where are Sprint, sprint Regen, knockback, gathering speed, and gathering xp ingreds(/items depending on what they're intended to be on)? I thought these were going to be released with 1.19
Also, jump height is only on reliks, with one exception that is a literal exception item (mirrors edge)

 

If I remember correctly, Salticidae (rare dagger) has +3 jump height.

 

Ingredients should also be a reward from dungeons. Buying them with fragments for example