Info Item Team Thread - Item/ingredient/major Id Changes, Updates & More (updated 28/03/2020)

It's worth noting that the faster casting is an unintended interaction with Arrow Storm's upgrades; it's meant to shoot them slower. Am I saying Hawkeye's going to be weaker than normal Arrow Storm? Due to its utility absolutely not. What I'm saying is that it'll be more reasonable, less broken overall.

 

Hawkeye with these changes will still be really good however It won't always be optimal which in my opinion makes it fairly balanced.
Also while I was away I was messing around on wynndata alot making some odd builds and I have a few questions about some current items so in a spoiler i'm just gonna put a few items I have messed around with in builds and think need rebalances/reworks. And honestly most of these feel like just leftover items that where not taken into account with the hive armor changes.

Spoiler: Open if you dare

https://wynndata.tk/i/Contrast
Contrast feels just meh, I get its clearly a niche item but honestly with the changes to hive armors that make them basically the strongest and basically essential endgame build core outside of rainbow builds (which use intensity and prowess most of the time...) this item just feels honestly kind of worthless. Have you thought about giving it absurdly high elemental defenses (higher than fusion brace) or just flat out reworking it because honestly I cannot see any good reason to use this item over another hive armor.
To looks specifically at each id and why it just doesn't work we got as follows
HP: 1275 hp is a lot for sure however this alone doesn't really make the item a better choice than other hive accessories and it also doesn't make this item instantly defensive.
Mana regen: 1/4 mana regen with this hp makes this item a better mana item than royal stormy but realistically if i'm making a spell build the chances of me not using a hive armor or another accessory with more benefits instead is almost 0. The mana (should stay at 1 as 2/4 might be just weird and not fix the problem...) is just a bonus for if you use this item for some reason :P
Health regen: Again a bonus id that comes with using the item. However if my build is focused around health regen im going to use Edin blessed guards or maybe Elysium-engraved over contrast.
Life steal: I'll admit this life steal is really nice even though I'd generally use pulsestopper over this but when paired with the 1275hp it makes me think about using it until I realize i'm giving up using another hive item. If im going spell life steal I'll build with life steal around anima for spell reductions, mana and intel. If im going life steal hybrid i'm going to build around heph and therefore give up my hive master slot.
Walkspeed: Just a niche bonus id
Poison: Just a random dps id that while it is very useful (probably the most useful id on this list) with chaos greaves existing U S E T H A T ! !
I get the lore says "variance" however whats the point of having a variance item that is just meh at everything it does?

https://wynndata.tk/i/Azure+Halo
Azure Halo has so much potential to be a really good water/air hpr item as currently making water focused edin builds is kinda a pain in the ass. Maybe giving this item more hp regen (both raw and a new % id) and perhaps a 1/4 mr id could help. In my testing of the item the raw hpr is to low to make much of a difference (esspecially since it has no %hpr) and as a defensive item I really think it should have this. I would personally envision this item as the hp regen equivalent of third eye if that makes any sense. defenses, health regen, maybe 1 mana? and more intel focused.

https://wynndata.tk/i/Philophilia
Why does this item even exist at this point? Philophilia brings basically nothing to the table when it comes to builds. The health regen is meh at max ids but outclassed by ration for non hive items (and ill make not ration doesnt give -spell damage) the item seems like just a random and honestly useless req-less hp sustainability slap.

https://wynndata.tk/i/Paradox
Paradox is...I guess you could say a paradox...ill see myself out now. But honestly this item used to be really good but now doesn't really have much, if any, use. With elemental defenses not being the focus of builds anymore the boots lack much utility and now with the -60 sp on hive master armors are very difficult to use in optimal builds. The only real use for these is rainbow builds but generally in rainbow these are far from the best option. The elemental combo these fit under while really interesting and honestly cool is currently just not really viable with all the current hive armor changes. To me this item feels like it shouldn't have reqs...but I understand if that could be seen as overpowered.

https://wynndata.tk/i/Heroism
Heroism is just a weird item. Honestly the item itself isnt that bad however in any build i've tested with it ive never found a scenario where Phoenix Prince's Crown is not the superior option which makes me question if the design behind this item needs to be looked at.

https://wynndata.tk/sets/Snail
This whole snail set with both individual pieces and as a whole set building around (as well as partial sets) I really only found useful with 3/4+fire sanc and I managed to fit the boots into one decent build. As a set the idea of being ONE WITH THE SNAIL is neat and all but the set just is kind of weird as even though it gives really high hp that can be replicated with a Leo slap if one wanted. Maybe i'm missing the point but given this is a level 97 set this just feels a bit weak to me, even though it is a set tier item.

https://wynndata.tk/i/Efteling
Efteling just feels somewhat weak with the -tier drawback and all that -thunder def. being air/water I would expect it to work well with w/a/t spell or w/a/e hybrid however these leggings are almost never a good option in either case. The spell and elemental damage ids are really low first as well. I understand the life steal and mana steal exist and that the -1 tier can help better utilize that but with how glassy these are and how little damage they offer I would much rather use atlas which gives more ls and the same ms and use my leggings slot for something more useful.

https://wynndata.tk/i/Caesura
Caesura is actually an awesome item design and I love it but I don't personally feel the drawbacks make up for the damages and sp. I'd personally increase the damages on this.

https://wynndata.tk/i/Phoenix+Wing
I will fight for this wand until the bitter end! My one question...why make an hp regen wand for a class that HAS A HEAL SPELL??? the damage on this wand is very mediocre in both spell and melee. the health id is the only good part about it. The air defense is meh, the regen is stupid, while it could and would be absolutely awesome on any other class with mage its just stupid, and the agility while neat doesn't do much. Please help this poor thing #savememewing

https://wynndata.tk/i/Crimson
The last item on my please send help list is Crimson. This relik is in concept really really cool and if it is actually buffed to a reasonable level of damage will probably be my main shaman build. But this weapon's damage is so utterly terrible that I could build it paper nuke and still get out damaged by tank weapons. The defense its are really neat but in my opinion not high enough to really make an outstanding difference given that using this most likely only one of those defenses will actually be high enough for that 46% to be noticeable. If I want a good hybrid lifesteal build I would just use Conference call which gives almost as much lifesteal but also gives 4 more mana steal and E P I C damage. The health regen is a really nice touch to this weapon but cannot be utilized without other hpr item, which are so lacking in damage you wont do any damage in the end. The skill points in intel and defense are nice but are not enough to make up for the trash damage. The powder slots and high neutral damage should allow for tri-elemental builds however outside of thunder...which kind of works I guess? (but conference call is stronger and thunder powders are inherently high damage) just suck. All around this item I want to love but it's just so bad in its current state that it just doesn't even need to be in the game.

That's it thank you for coming to my ted talk

 

Gonna have to partially disagree with you on this one; Contrast really doesn’t need a rework. I think that it honestly just needs a buff; right now it serves as a pretty good slap item, especially for something like a poison ETF build, where it acts like a health patch, or a speed based EWA, which I currently use it for. It’s a good item for anything that has niches not covered by hive armors. It just needs an all around increase to like 2/4 mana regen, 300 health regen, 1000 poison and 300 life steal

 

Those buffs I cannot argue with :)

oh also can you give edin blessed guards 15% ws instead of that soulpoint regen

 

Health regen in the current meta (1.19.4) and what should/needs to be changed in my opinion.

Spoiler: a long drawnout rant/hpr feedback

Currently health regen, when correctly utilized, can be extremely powerful. However it also can be utterly terrible with very little in between. The hpr tank meta is carried by hetusol, edin blessed, and boreal for the most part as the strongest hpr builds utilize all three of these items along with one of three helms; cancer, sanos care, and phoenix prince's crown (max hpr at cost of damage, hpr and mana at cost of hp, hpr and some damage without mana.) these builds in my opinion are perfectly fine in the meta as they are. The amount of damage one has to give up in order to gain such high amounts of hpr is reasonably balanced and while to most not optimal, it’s a different way of playing that overall works very well, especially with warrior. In terms types of hpr builds I find there are three, Earth/Fire/Water being the weakest. This build type feels much more focused on using hpr as a secondary sustainability but has very few weapons and items to really work with it. Pre patch spring with hpr would work well with this….*cough* but currently outside of Prismatic Pendulum and Undying the hpr is really just used to counter high damage glassy earth items with -hpr. This build type just in general needs more support and direction as outside a small handful of items utilizing hpr to any reasonable level is just not useful. The second build type being Earth/Fire/Air I’ve messed with and found that the damage you can get out of it while utilizing hpr is to low to be worth attempting to use in an hpr focused build.

The last type is Fire/Air/Water and this is the route you should go when building hpr tanks. The trouble is there is almost no variety because of a lack of items and also hpr’s tradeoff in actual gameplay feels like a MASSIVE dropoff. If I have 1k hpr I personally barely notice it as I generally take way more damage than I heal to notice a difference. With a high defense warrior or a vanish abusing assassin I find I first notice the effects of hpr around 2.5k to an extent they are actually noticeably helpful. The trouble is that without slapping boreal or resurgence on to my build getting just that bare minimum of hpr gives enough of a damage tradeoff that its generally not worth it. Past this around the 3k to 4k hpr range utilizing 3/4 armor slots with health regen items (hetusol, edin blessed, semph/exhaustion) you tend to reach a very comfortable point of being tanky but without that mythic to really push the hpr over the edge you are not as tanky as you should be with how much damage you have given up. A non-mythic hpr build tops out around 5.5k (no weapon/amulet of rejuvenation) with perfect hpr rolled items, and note the build I have in my head has only 5% fire damage around -25% spell and -1 tier which all around is a harsh tradeoff for this amount of hpr. The thing is godly hpr builds are currently locked behind stacking agility and defense with boreal. Boreal as an item is fine as is so please don’t it as it fits the hpr niche perfectly. Resurgence with it’s insane mana and raw hpr is also very powerful in these builds and gives more a mana/hpr rather than purely hpr focus. Boreal, and resurgence to an extent, both have the ability to allow for high hpr (like 3.5-5k) without giving up tons of damage or can be built to give INSANE hpr to make you nearly unkillable outside of getting one tapped or falling to burst damage (cough archer). But this playstyle is locked behind a mythic wall which to most players is honestly a pain in the ass. I’ve tested my personal build with boreal and semph and the difference between them is like night and day because the former is very powerful and the latter feels generally subpar.

How I personally would fix this is by buffing hpr support. Give more weapons (particularly warrior (extra particularly tidebinder and ignition)) hpr ids to utilize tanky builds. Items like azure halo and semph could really use buffs, and legendary/fabled alternatives to boreal and resurgence really should be added to the game (The latter not just for hpr but for mana in all types of spell builds). Water/Fire hpr/mana sustain could use more support for sure (and maybe some -spell costs also owo) and alot of buffs on non mythic/meta hpr items could surely be nice. In my opinion hpr should be a more diverse tanky playstyle as well as a more viable secondary feature to builds worth investing in. Similarly to how 6 months back y’all did a health curve revamp I tend to think a raw hpr curve revamp could really help the game out. On a final note I know alot of people say to decrease hpr to 5 seconds and half it or even just make it constant or whatever but I personally must strongly disagree with this one. The longer wait allows for you to more strategically play defensively rather than just mindlessly be stupid at low hp making the build’s playstyle more immersive and less mindless. On top of that healing a ton of hp at once rather than all over time is better balanced against burst instead of a constant heal wall...because like it or not I will say this out right I do not care what you have to say about this statement. TRIGGER WARNING. On warrior when used correctly health regen tank builds are very very powerful.

Okay I'm done just wanted to get this off my chest xD
@JaydonTheWarrior If you want to add anything go right ahead :P

 

The only thing I can add to this is that Rainbow builds also take advantage of health regen, with items like Determination, Gravity, Genesis, Morph-Stardust.
It suffers largely the same issues as Earth, Water, Fire, in that being the health regen just doesn't do enough.

 

Where's new changelog? I need list of new ingreds plss

 

Added items/ingredients don't receive their own changelog. We always leave that for the players to discover on their own. Changelogs remain for the purpose of existing things that get changed, not for new ones.

It's always nice to see everyone discover things on their own rather than it being spoiled before it's even live :p

 

aaa I understand but I want to know :(
Guess I might check every thing in market against wynndata now...

 

Usually some folks make threads to find them all, you could do it and ask people to post pictures of any new ones. Those work out pretty well.

 

Will there be a buff to powder to crafted armor conversion? Because currently if you put T6 in the crafting recipe, it gives like almost no elemental defense on your armor which makes it completely not worth it for a slot in crafting.

 

I'm sorry I'm late to this topic, but I just now saw the conversation.
I feel like you guys aren't giving Collapses enough credit actually. (I'm including major.)
See, Collapse has something going for it, exploding. On a normal weapon it wouldn't be a big deal, but on a weapon that relies on rng, its...
Imagine there are 20 mobs in a big group, and I uppercut them with Collapse. A lot of them will take a normal amount of damage, some may take basically none, but if even one of them takes a high roll, and dies, then they all take that same roll. The more mobs you have, the more consistent the weapon becomes.
It's like having a 20 sided dice for every mob you hit, it may not be very likely that you roll a 20, but if you have twenty 20 sided dice... Well...

I don't think is wrong with the power of the mythic itself, however, I do think there are a few issues with the weapon.
I think warrior, in general, has a hard time playing anything offensive, which wouldn't be an issue if rainbow builds, in general, didn't like support.
They kind of compact together, making the issue larger.

I think the best way to go about this, would just be more overall support for rainbow items, and maybe a very slight buff to collapse until warrior is smoothed out.

 

I'm pretty certain exploding was changed to not be the same damage, just to trigger a melee hit (sadly).

 

i just spent 20 minutes testing this bc i was bored
and yeah this statement checks out from what i can see

 

Tf? Collapse sucks tm.
Why????

 

I think is time for a collapse rework along with lament

 

The life of warrior main is waiting for buffs that turn out to be bugged while receiving indirect nerfs from literally everything...

 

Or just buff explosions so they’re actually good on it and other weapons?

________________________________

Or both. I’d be cool with both.

 

How about we just copy the properties of Arrow Bomb and make Exploding do the same damage /s

 

Contrast and Azure work well with my lunar 0.0