If You Could Change One Thing In A Quest...

I would remove the boss fight at the end of memory paranoia and replace it with something more thematically appropriate for the quest.

 

remove unskippable dialogue

OR fix /skiptutorial in king's recruit for people who have classes coming from the update room (you can't use /skiptutorial in the room or when you exit and start on the path; if your class isn't new, it doesn't work at all)

 

Why tf do you want ez xp out

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Or just let players read the goddamn powder chapters

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Excuse me did you just literally roll your eyes over Shattered Minds, Memory Paranoia, One Thousand Meters Under, Flight In Distress, The Bigger Picture, Beyond The Grave, Cowfusion, Enter The Dojo, D&D and Royal Trials and consider HoL as the only one to be kept, tf?

 

Alright, now that I’ve had some time to think this over, a few proper changes:

King’s Recruit. This isn’t the worst quest, but easily the most damaging, if that makes sense. The current version completely throws new people off on what the real Wynn experience is, and they usually don’t know about anything other than professions. Although it’s probably better to redo the quest from scratch, here are some pointers that it definitely needs to include/change:
-The old way of needing to get emeralds from some mobs and buying a helmet was very useful info, and I think it should definitely be included, probably before any profession tutorials. The player would obviously also need to get a starter weapon before as well.
-Fix the part where walking to the broken bridge is necessary to progress the story. Even if I know about it, I still tend to walk to the tree first and chop it- and wait for like a minute until it drops, just to remember about the awkward placing. If you’re keeping this part, just move that trigger forward, please.
-Allow players to start killing (passive) mobs almost from the start, so they know more about combat. Again, this would require the player to start with a weapon, but that’s honestly completely reasonable and I really don’t see why you shouldn’t.
-I’d move the wounded soldier to be one of the first thing the player sees. Spells are probably the most important part to learn from the start, and explaining about spells immediately give the player some time to play around with them, instead of just knowing it exists and the first time being able to use it being on the zombies outside of Ragni.
-Albeit less important, give some explanation about unidentified items. I’ve always seen this as a very good second/third quest option similar to Enzan’s Brother explaining powders, but it couldn’t hurt to also have something in the main tutorial.
So the order would be: Exit cart with a weapon -> help a soldier open the way to Wynn (let’s say there’s a hypothetical boulder in your way so the cart doesn’t even have to crash) with your spell -> walk through the grassy area with some passive mobs to test your spells out on, and maybe gain your first few emeralds -> meet a merchant/soldier who explains shops and emeralds to you, and requires you to buy a helmet or something before continuing -> kill your first few zombies (aggressive mobs) -> get to another soldier or the current weird old man, who warns you the mobs up ahead are very dangerous and you should maybe invest some times into getting skilled at some professions to get better gear than you currently have -> cue professions tutorial (preferably one with skippable dialogue) -> chop down the tree and craft your upgraded weapon -> fight your way through the next cave -> reach Ragni outskirts (the part where you can’t attack the zombies chasing you in the running sequence is very confusing, so maybe also leave that behind) -> enter Wynn -> finish quest.

Cook Assistant. Although the dialogue might be changed since the last time I paid attention to it, it still seems to be an annoying quest for new players, as they simply don’t know where to go for the ingredients. Could maybe use an, uh, “cake route” left by some hungry guy leading you to Katoa Ranch.

Mushroom Man & Potion Making. Although I’m not complaining about the quests themselves, you’re collecting the exact same items for both of these quests, and for an extra gathering miniquest as well. I’d prefer if maybe Potion making had an extra side quest where you’d maybe go explore towards the Lost Sanctuary bridge a bit, since Studying the Corrupt tends to be people’s first and only time seeing it- and the lower area where that one relic shrine quest was once located still feels a bit empty. Not really criticism, but a cool afterthought nonetheless.

A Sandy Scandal. Although the fact that this is required to enter a very useful bank already kind of makes this quest hard to like, it could really use some touching up. Multiple unskippable and slooooooow cutscenes, quest triggers needing you to stay in one spot for longer than you really want to (the weapons vault’s gotten me multiple times), a simply useless section that literally blueballs you- yeah, I think you get the problem. First thing, I’d use that spiffy newer cutscene system you have so you can actually walk around during the cutscenes (and maybe speed 'em up a bit as well), make the guard take a witness report back once you’ve seen it (you’re literally doing this quest to enter a bank so your inventory will be filled 9 out of 10 times), and just remove the section where you enter the bandit’s hideout and need to escape; it adds nothing, and it’s not even clear that you can just jump on the higher platform. It’s probably better to just immediately go to the bank and stop the bandits there.

Ice Nations & Zhight Island & Beneath the Depths & Redbeard’s Booty & temple of the Legends. Listen, I get it, you want people to explore, but at least give us the boat pass to where you need to go from the starting point. Please.

Underice & The Fortuneteller. A bit of a dumb complaint, but- why does the morally wrong option have the better reward? Other quests like An Iron heart, Aldorei’s Secret and Recipe for Disaster have it right, so at least go for consistency.

From the Mountains. Although the quest itself is fine, I’m just really not a fan of needing the breathing helmet for this one. There’s nothing in the title or first portion that clues you in on needing one, and the nearest bank is Llevigar, which is further away than you’d really like. More than half of this quest is going to grab a breathing helmet, which always kind of ruins it for me. I’d just let that deep cave you go in to get that guy’s teeth back end up in the area you need to get to. It works, and although it wouldn’t exactly make this quest more memorable, at least it won’t be remembered for being the most annoying one that side of Gavel.

Temple of the Legends. Yeah, although I myself don’t mind it as much, you really can’t get past this quest in discussions like these. I’d say the current biggest problem it has is needing to go to multiple places around the ocean, so I guess I’d change that to become some kind of rat race through Wynn- Coral of Nelfors/Maro Eye Jewel would become items from areas like the mesa, plains or coast, the wizard could be from Bremminglar, you’d get those cool crystals from somewhere in Nesaak forest, etc. I think ToL could be very cool proper quest to look back at all the things you’ve done around Wynn, unlike it missing multiple locations and instead having some random and very annoying ocean locations. Again, just a thought, not really criticism. Also a very good spot to add Aledar or Tasim in so we can start caring about them.

Haven Antiquity. A place for some fairly boring lore exposition, and even that it doesn’t do too well. Just a generally very boring quest and place, so this is probably the place to put some more Dern lore, or a boss that’s stopping you from going back to the current time. It’s so bland, but I can’t even really come up with any interesting concepts for it. Main reason I’m naming it here is because I hardly ever hear anyone talk (or complain) about this quest.

Reincarnation. Just allow people to enter the tomb freely after completing Bob’s Tomb. I can get behind that needing some other extra players, but by Reincarnation it’s getting kind of annoying and, well, I assume you’re strong enough to break through the wall yourself at this point lore-wise.

Realm of Light. Although we all want to see a cool dungeon at the end of it, the other parts are kinda lacking as well. You basically start off by being stuck in some village and you need to go do a very annoying gathering quest before you’re allowed to progress (I tend to run out of heal pots here and suffer), so either take that part out or make it much more friendly. I think maybe one or two item types from helping some light spirits or whatever they are out, and other items from exploring a bit outside, instead of just needing to kill mobs with semi-rare drops. that way, you could also add some much-needed and appreciated extra deoth to the Light Realm, instead of the empty mess of coloured glass and disappointment it currently is.

Aldorei’s Secret Part 1. Just change the puzzle to being more of a Finding the Light-esque puzzle, instead of a riddle hardly anyone knew without looking it up first. Not exactly sure how it would look, but it could give much better insight into the elves than the odd lore drops we get now, by way of showing how distrustful elves are of outsiders and how they ignore their own problems, without just telling us outright. This would probably go best together with a redone Aldorei, so you should consider redoing this quest whenever that happens.

From the Bottom. You know that merchant selling a few ingredients like Rotten Flesh and Bone Meal? Make it also sell Troll Hair, thanks. That or change it to untradable items and let it always drop from the trolls, having to spend a considerable amount of time on grinding outside of Thanos every time I get there is incredibly annoying.

The Canyon Guides. Yep, officially the worst quest, and if you disagree, you’re wrong. You need to first get to the Bantisu temple, then to the the other side of the canyons, then walk all the way back whilst needing to protect some guy that seems to always move slower than you do, then watch as he gets buried under rockfalls, killed by the mobs you could hit because he would immediately jump into the river because you spinned once, or just randomly get suck somewhere and despawn. Escort missions almost always suck ass, and this is just about the pinnacle of one. My best idea for a fix would have to be a version where the two of you decide that the guy can’t walk past all those mobs outside, and you’d go through the caves in the canyon; with some lock-solving puzzles, timed button puzzles, slow parkour (you need to carry him over, he can’t walk with that broken foot!), a mob room or two.. best way to describe it would be a cave-crawling version of Tunnel Trouble, really. If done well, it could actually be really fun, and if you’re feeling generous maybe even a free shortcut from the cave you first find the guy in (right outside of Thanos) to maybe Bantisu temple or some other area people tend to get lost in in the Canyon of the Lost.

The Olmic Rune. This quest was two mob waves and that’s it. I think there could be some really cool puzzle about infusing rocks with certain magic to open some doors, and having a certain amount of that to juggle between getting through the cave to the Tol altar could be neat. Think of a combination of Lab N and that one door puzzle in Finding the Light. This could also maybe give some more lore about the runes themselves, since I feel like there’s a huge missed oppertunity with the current quest feeling only half finished.

And I guess in general, checking quests for unskippable dialogue and maybe even updating some command blocks scenes with the current system. Putting a Aledar and/or Tasim and/or other characters that seem important in AJB even though we absolutely do not know them in older quests also seems like a pretty obvious detail that could get updated to some quests. Maybe they could be the ones opening Bob’s Tomb for you instead of a kind player with a class inside of it?


(sorry for backseat gm)

 

make TOL infinity more bearable by removing the need for the maro's eye jewel
would save a good 15 minutes

 

I honestly think that none of the flashbacks need people talking in them; the notes themselves, along with the cutscenes, do more than enough to explain the events that happen. Like, there’s a part in the mining store where the note says, “I told them the code, which was 7812”, and then IMMEDIATELY afterwards the guy in the cutscene says “the code is 7812.” Like, why? There’s literally no point to saying it twice beyond extending the cutscene. It makes it drag on for so long

 

Royal trials respawn point

 

Add a cutscene at the end of eldritch outlook dungeon where the eye dies (not 100% quest related)

Would love to see stuff like that in every dungeon. Defeating a dungeon would feel much better.

 

Easy xp with the downsides of a more negative point of view:

1. locked behind grinding, which already has a bad reputation
1.2. it literally can't be considered a 'quest' since it's gathering x amount of something
2. only grants xp for the profession it was based on, which are already easier to level than the professions involved with crafting stuff
3. following 2., you also LOSE the materials you just gathered, which is even worse considering you need to get MORE materials now to level the crafting profs now
4. if you want to 100% a character like a sick human being like me, you have to spent something about 100 hours to achieve that


They are fine. But they are not worthy to be called a 'quest', not even a mini one.
Yes, you could say that about the other combat mini ones as well, but you can't compare actual mob grinding with the literal slowest 'gameplay' aspect of wynn in the game.

 

I agree, it is a dumb complaint.
Seriously though, it does go a way to add a bit of moral ambiguity.
Good acts won't always reward you more, and that's kind of the point.

Either way, it is a bit annoying that you think it's needed to change that.

 

add a bank and a respawn point at qira hive

 

Surprised at this. I've asked before, and most people are generally fine with the structure and just believe some things need some "cleaning up" as it were, like the Tribe Fetish cave, or adding a different kind of challenge to get the Coral. The Maro Peaks climb, which people in this thread seem to dislike, was actually one of the most liked sections when I asked people about it on the discord, with the only nitpicks being "the sniper towers are bad"(they're gone now) and "I don't like the climbing helmet" which is just endemic to the region. People seemed to like exploring Maro and found the enemy challenges interesting. The primary reason the Maro's Eye Jewel is there is to give some love to an area that's not really relevant outside of the quests requiring you to go there.

The biggest thing I've seen people complain about is the general lack of reward from the quest rather than the multiple tasks involved in it, and I can agree on that. I want to clean this up, but I'm not sure if the overall structure will change much.

 

but... but... the way you're "giving it love" making a quest that requires you to go there


also imagine doing ToL lmao

 

Well, I'd be completely fine with making the rewards actually worthwhile, which it really should've been from the start (1.18 making the grind spot suck basically means people are only doing ToL for access to Bob's weapons). And it's not that I really dislike Maro's Peak, but getting the Maro's Eye Jewel is so boring and annoying at the same time; even when using the wiki, I always lose the way and get flung off by whatever mob there has a pull spell.

You already have a big reason to go there once, since you need to get Baab's wool there as well, and you usually just end up getting them right after each other since the location is just very remote and hard to get to. I know there's a Seasailer relatively close by, but navigating the peaks is surprisingly difficult when not playing mage or warrior, and needing a Climbing Helmet is not so much making it harder but I tend to forget it, haha.

My idea wasn't really to shoot the current ToL down, just a suggestion on how I think it could be more fun, rather than tedious, by making people run around in Wynn (and probably have locations lined up a bit better) and seeing old locations or characters in new ways, seeing as I feel like that's kind of the intent of ToL (even if it fails at that a bit right now).

 

Most of my suggestions have already been posted, but I'll say them anyway because I like to hear myself talk it shows that more people care.

1) King's Recruit is really long and dull, and really only touches on crafting and gathering. Nothing about combat besides "hit that", nothing about skill points or building in general, nothing about identifying or finding or buying gear, nothing about the bank, nothing about spells besides "cast your one spell once", nothing about loot chests or elements or powders or grind spots or the trade market. Not all of things need to be mentioned, but all of them seem more important than professions. At least some of them should be addressed. And before someone goes into the whole "they can figure it out by looking around" nonsense, what's the point of a tutorial if you're expected to figure everything out? It's a poor representation of the game, and has put off a few people who I've tried to show the server to entirely.

2) Make the Elemental Exercise quest actually teach about elements, including typical characteristics, strengths and weaknesses, and the advantages and disadvantages of each as a build, so that new players at least have a basic understanding of that when they try to make a build. Obviously it can't get super detailed, but "some things are weak to other things" and "don't walk in fire idiot" are the two messages I got from the quest, and that's kind of a poor introduction to elements.

3) Make Bob's tomb accessible after you've completed Bob's Lost Soul, via a teleportation tunnel or something. I love nothing more than having to organize multiple people if I want to grind in the tomb, or to do so multiple time if I want to do Reicarnation. It doesn't add a multiplayer, cooperative aspect, it just annoys everyone.

4) Make ToL give an actual reward. Bob's weapons are good, but easily outclassed by other weapons their level for most purposes, there are no unique merchants or stations, there's an okay boss alter boss and a bad grind spot. For the absurdly long fetch quest portion, I'd like something worthwhile as a reward. Also, buff CoW; he's a total pushover.

5) Add a bank and respawn location to the Qira Hive.

6) Make it so you don't have to wear quest helmets. Like, I just wanna fight CoW with my endgame build to get revenge for the trouble he gave me at level 68. I shouldn't have to get charged with public indecency because my helmet gave me the skill points to wear my other armor.

7) Please stop with the unskippable dialogue. Please. I already did the quest 4 times. I know what I have to do. Let me go please.

8) The single biggest thing though, besides a King's Recruit rework, would be to rewrite some of the dialogue of D&D. It's very overly dramatic and doesn't really work that well. I love the quests, but the dialogue is just kind of lacking. It always feels very generic and predictable, while not really conveying any sort of emotion or drawing the player in.

 

Make The Eye bigger
It's honestly quite anti climactic. Or at least add some more cutscenes. It is an eldrich being that makes you insane after all.

 

You're thinking of the Scavenger Sentries, and they only have Push, and there should be no possible gaps on the bridges to get shunted through by knockbacking attacks. There was extensive testing done to prevent that exact thing. Where are you getting thrown off?

 

It's been said a lot, but remove professions from king's recruit.
Also nerf avalanche, one of the best quest rewards in the game

 

Why would you nerf one of the only good rewards? Also, I think its fairly balanced considering it gives a relatively small amount of hp.

 

I actually did it with warrior and no charge..