My Thoughts, Complaints, And Suggestions About Wynncraft Volume 2 (working Title) (salted Replied!)

Item System & Rng
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The current random ID RNG is necessary and great, in my opinion. It adds diversity to the economy and diversity to builds: the fact that two builds with the same items have drastic differences is a pro, not a con.

As a 6 year veteran myself, I remember the pre-gavel days to be completely bland. It was possible to get the "best" armor and "best" weapon in the games: each item had a set damage and no ID RNG, and once you got there you were uncontested and perfect.

Needless to say, this world would be a boring one.

Generally, your pros for static IDs are all well-intended, albeit your ideal is a socialist view of the economy. When everyone is happy and can obtain everything they want, no one is happy. The fun of the game is not to have a 100-hour player be able to get the same items as a 1000-hour player; it comes from a joy that the 1000 hours have earned you enough income to purchase the best of each item.

Static IDs benefit people who spend less time in Wynn rather than the people who devote years.

(P.S. : having wide differences in ID rolls make getting items that much more exciting and select items that much more valuable. It's not that items with worse IDs are trash items--they are actually still really good--it's that there are so many of them that their value is greatly lower)

 

Wow a socialist insult was not what I expected to hear when I first opened this thread

 

Um... no? I don't remember that. The meta was stale because of the lack of items for builds and there just so happened to be two 'sets' of armor and a few weapons that were really good.

 

I get trash luck at sizzlings so I don't have hope anymore, I don't have a single one worth keeping from weeks of running SE and I have like 5 spectrums that each have 95% rolls+ in 2 elements

 

IDs definitely had ranges back then, but they also didn't matter much since there was an objective best set of armor and weapons and if you had it you could clear everything in the game no matter how bad your ids were.

 

If I can be That Guy for a second, even pre-Gavel IDs has a 0.7-1.3x roll range, but the only IDs that rolled were XP Bonus, Loot Bonus, and Spell Damage. I very much recall at that point that my Bob's Mythics didn't have the same IDs as each other; for instance my Spear had a 24% Spell Damage while my Wand had 35%.

 

That item isn't identified. Back then unidentified items can be worn without identifying them.

 

Honestly while I disagree with some of the methods to fix some of these problems I agree with every problem here. The only one I really have to nit pick on is the items as personally I thinks static IDs would make the game stale.

 

I'm a bit tired, so forgive me.

Hmm... some thoughts I haven't considered about my 'solution' to this system would be how powerful the items with static IDs would be. Like, would all Toxoplasmosis have 13000/3s Poison or would all Stratiformis have 99 Walk Speed? Would they have a bit less because all items would be better on average? Would they stay the same? I haven't really thought past that like I should have... sorry for that.

Maybe I haven't really discussed the actual issue and how I somehow came to the conclusion? Maybe I've been avoiding the real problem all along...

I'll start from the very beginning for when I first started to loose interest in Wynncraft.

Perhaps the first instance of when I started to have these thoughts was a bit before Legendary Island was first released. I've just grinded to 101 on my Hunter and had a pretty usable but glass build, sadly. I tried taking on the Orange Wybel with primarily a thunder based build... and it didn't go so well. I figured that I wasn't playing the game correctly and I've decided to wait and investigate other builds, which likely would require buying an entire new set of items and changing my playstyle quite a bit. I'm primarily a solo player that's only interested in PvE and/or Player vs Boss builds and not Nether/PVP builds. I recall looking up some builds, but I think the guides I've read at that time were are all over the place. I'm not sure if Double Hive or exchanging Hive Gear for vouchers or something was a thing back then. If It wasn't I would have had to be really careful what I picked, so I didn't pick anything at the time.

Then Legendary Island and Corkus comes around I haven't really changed my build at all. The builds/guides/whatever all involved items from Hive or LI itself, with some items from corrupted dungeons... maybe. Orange Wybel items were probably not too important, but quiet a bit of the common items suggested in those guide were untradable items, so I would have had to find substitutes. Sometimes those substitutes were other untradable items from other places. I think end I managed to finish the quests though, so that's all good. I thought to myself that if I can't even kill the Orange Wybel I have no business attempting LI because I would be too squishy and not strong enough because of my elemental damages and defenses in general. Around the same time as all of this was happening, the Item Team was going crazy nerfing erm 'rebalancing' everything and lots of guides that items with 2/4 Mana Regen and other things became instantly outdated. I think there was also multiple waves of rebalances, so I was completely left in a tight spot. Should I attempt to find a good build and take the risk that I might be upset and feel useless in a few days, a few weeks, or a few months? It simply wasn't fun at all. Especially with (expensive) Mythic builds being all the rage and everything.

So when the 1.18 The Economy Update, I thought that things might have turned around. I was excited for crafting, but it turned out to be a boring grind with little benefit apart from crafting accessories or things like that. Apparently the real benefits show up once the crafting and multiple gathering professions are leveled around 100+ or so? I don't really have the time to spend leveling them all up from level 1 to truly see what the system was capable of. Can powerful items be crafted that can rival Mythics or good Legendaries? Probably. The awesome @YYGAYMER managed to solo LI with HIC Assassin, but Archers and Shaman are certainly not Assassins. I lack experience with things like these.

I also recall ingredients getting nerfed erm rebalanced as well within the first few months. Now we even have https://forums.wynncraft.com/thread...anges-updates-more-updated-07-01-2020.255138/ with seemingly discussions and item changes every month. If I decide to level up my Shaman reskin class to level 100+ and somehow manage to find a build that works, how often would I have to check all these resources so I don't end up wasting my time. And if the build I find somehow manages to survive a few weeks and I gather all of the items, what if at 1 week+1 day the rebalance hits and I have to start looking for new items. It's so frustrating and unfun. Ugh.

I could go on and on, but I'll stop now. I just hope we get some solutions to the problems both mentioned and not mentioned in this thread.

 

Static IDs would be nice. But they're not a good idea for the game at all.

- Hyping up builds will basically determine the price of items
- No reason to buy an item once you have a copy of it (!!!) Lowers trade/market interaction even further

 

Everyone is trying to scam on the market constantly, the only way to resell for a price that's actually good is by becoming a scammer yourself or finding someone so desperate to sell something because no one will buy it then you realize that now you have that same curse of selling something.

 

I would agree things like toxo And stuff could use static IDs or at least better I'd roll ranges. I myself have questioned if maybe the major I'd system could be used to fix this.

As for build changes I think it generally is just something you must painfully accept that builds will change. For me personally I've played since 1.14 came out and I've found that the only times I've really had to adjust my build where when give masters mad nerfed from 33 to 40, when you could only wear one Hive master, and literally now because someone decided to absolutely nuke anima. Item rebalances outside of this generally don't affect my builds all that much as most of the items that are drastically changed are currently lower tier/bad items.
I'm also a bit tired so I hope this is coherent ;)

 

I guess it depends on the builds. I just think it isn't fun spending the emeralds and the time to get all the items for a build that I want for whatever playstyle I come up with at watch them get nerfed. If I want to be 'OP' or whatever the Item Team defines as 'OP', even if it's not very 'OP' in the first place, why can't I? I would still have fun and enjoy myself. Isn't that what's important? I did see https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/weekly-community-discussion-10-01-2020-mythic-boots.261108 that the I.T. created a thread listing upcoming Mythic changes. You even post on that thread.

Personally I would prefer that every item had the best possible ID rolls, but that's likely only a dream. Oh well. I guess I'll take anything that makes items good consistently and disrupts the over 5-10 (maybe 20)+ stacks per Mythic economy. Even if everyone hates me after the fact. I think Wynncraft is pretty much a singleplayer rpg game with not a lot of content that absolutely requires multiple people to complete a quest, dungeon, etc. I rarely ever see other players that aren't in Deltas or something, so it's kinda easy to forget that it's a 'multiplayer' game. If it was designed to be more 'multiplayer' focused, I probably would be just a little bit more understanding than what I'm at now.

 

I think where i disagree with item ids being static is that that would be boring just in the end, however items really could use a multiplier range that isn't stupid (0.3-1.3) but rather somthing like 0.7-1.3 to make items not roll as badly as they currently do.
As for items I agree that in the past the item team is far to quick to nerf builds to make us play "their way" I think thats not as much of a problem now but certainly still an issue (the item team thread and weekly threads help a ton with this)
The multiplayer part I also agree with and I personally don't understand why making larger servers isn't a higher priority as currently as the map get bigger the players per server is getting smaller as the mmo part is not really much of a thing outside main cities (rodoroc, ragni, and detlas) and dungeon/grind parties.

 

I think something important to note is that the game does have some static ID items in the form of dungeon/Hive/LI rewards, which you can always use to make at least a mid-tier build without needing any crazy high rolls.

On a personal note, I rather enjoy upgrading my build little by little by finding slightly better versions of the items I'm wearing. It gives me a feeling of progress that lasts longer than just trying to get whatever the meta "best" items are and then never looking for any items again.

 

Maybe I'm just being too picky and blind to what is actually happening. I don't think it's fun buying a slightly better item and reselling the old item, but that's just my opinion.

 

For me the fun aspect isn't in purchasing/finding an upgrade itself, but rather the feeling of consistent progression that you know you can make.

The endgame already lacks significant replayability and a change like this would practically remove all that it has. A significant portion of the endgame, for a significant number of people, is just optimizing and perfecting multiple different builds. Static Skillpoints were made so that builds are always at minimum usable if they're meant to be.

I tend to see this quite a lot, and my response is fairly consistent. Wynncraft isn't a game that's made to satisfy a power fantasy as say, something like Doom2016/Destiny 2 are meant to. In those you can run through the game and shred everything in your path as you progressively get stronger with satisfying glory kills/finishers to rip things apart. Wynncraft I feel like is made as a more relaxed adventure type game that you can sit through, pursue some quests, choose a playstyle and fight your way to the endgame. It has its power fantasy aspect, but it isn't the point of the game. We (the Item Team) attempt to make changes that will both satisfy the players as well as the progression/difficulty of the game and if something turns out to be too optimized in that it can make other things seem obsolete, then we make our move to change it. If Wynncraft were made to satisfy a players power fantasy to the maximum then each update the player would get stronger, but since it's not we attempt to give players more options in how they want to play the game. Master Hive armours were a step forward in this, laying the groundwork for a few more playstyles with more things to come.

Quoting you directly, but also directed at @Thunder and anyone else who'd like to respond:

Just really quickly, as it seems to be a consistent topic but I don't want to hijack this thread, what are some possible things we can do to alleviate it. I wouldn't say that stopping changes is a viable response, but maybe some more insights on why things are changed?

The thread is enlightening. Good materials, good discussion. I was going to reply a bit earlier when D2 was brought up but much of what I would have said was said, so I opted not to.

 

Also Thunder please let me know if you want me to delete this if it seems im hijacking.

Well note this is just my opinion from my experience as an endgame build *cough* abuser *cough*...maker is that it feels alot of new items are nerfed to hard to quickly before having time to really find their place in the endgame build meta. Alot of items are on release to powerful and in need of a nerf immediately however I personally feel many of these nerfs are way to quick for just how hard they are. The most recent examples are Time rift and Anima (assuming the 4/4 > -1 2nd is still the plan) these items where VERY powerful and needed a nerf however time rift getting nerfed after about a week and anima after 2 and a half (I think) as hard as they do makes the nerfs feel more impulsive than long term balancing. Time rift currently is now a niche item if you will to most and anima post nerf is to most people ive talked to an inferior spell sustain chestplate option outside the occasional low intel fire/thunder build. As a community the majority of us prefer smaller more gradual nerfs to new items to allow us to test out how well they work post nerf.
Insights on why things are changed as you suggested I think would probably be the second best option after slow nerfs (and probably both could go well together) because sometimes we are confused on why "x" received "y" nerf and whatnot.
However I will say I'm very grateful that since the revamp you guys have been much more open about upcoming changes.