Info The Elemental Revamp: Part 1 - Endgame Overhaul - Updated Changelog Beta 1.1.1

Pretty much this:

Also, the carpal tunnel thing is not really relevant to the power of something. But I see the concern and I think that people should practice making sure that they are not overstraining themselves and educate themselves on things that decrease the risk. As someone that is in computer science, I especially try to hold my mouse and type in manners that do not strain any parts of my arms.

 

Yeah I really don't agree with nerfing mana regen and steal across the board.

 

I run an inferno build with around 5-6 ms myself for wars, and lemme tell you, it barely procs. Against filler you can't hit them enough to proc ls/ms and against minibosses you have to wail on them for an absurd amount of time. And mind you, I'm only at fast attack speed and I'm having these issues, I cannot imagine how much trouble it would be to proc super fast/very fast in wars.

 

although this doesn't really apply to mages with their 10-block piercing attacks and also slow meteor fall time
I used brainwash tesla + very fast fatal and ms is proc-ing fine for me in wars

 

Filler mobs are easy enough to get rid of in min time anyway with just melee so that is not important. 22k wars are where the build really shines the defense lets you survive in just a pile of like 20+ mobs and just have full mana the whole time just because the sheer number of mobs you are hitting. My current build is this and I always finish wars in min time (even 22ks). https://wynndata.tk/s/OnWGav
You would think I never have mana but when it is in a 22k defense it is full bar the whole time even with a mere 2/4s mana steal.

 

Hehehe... hehehehehehehehehehe...
We've finally done it. We've reached the breaking point. The point of every single item revamp forums thread where someone from IM accuses us of wanting to be unkillable monsters. Gods, some would say. With this very notion, I know this update is over. As long as this stigma exists, no community input will matter one bit. However, I will still narcissistically drone on about how I feel regarding the current changelog.
Did you think tier-stacked fire melee was actually so overpowered in this sense? Because looking at the numbers on WynnData is just not enough when it comes to, well, any kind of melee. No matter how many tiers you stack, no matter how fast your weapon becomes, melee is incredibly slow in practice.
I can't solo 22k-emerald war defenses with my Flameshot Hilt. It would take more than the twenty minutes of time I am allowed to finish. It even takes me ten minutes to solo a 1520-emerald defense, which means one thousand of the cheapest, lowest level defenses you can buy. If you pair me up with a person who is not using a melee build, best case scenario is that I kill 300 people and the other guy kills the other 700. And regarding my boss fight experience, I still drink defense and agility potions when I have to fight the Orange Cybel in Legendary Island.
But you ignored these facts because you have only observed the numbers, hmm? And as a result, you have not only destroyed the very concept of tier-stacked fire melee, but you felt the need to reduce Flameshot Hilt's base damage by 100 points just to be safe. To make sure it is useless. I have asked several of your conscripted buildmakers to make something good with Flameshot Hilt, and none of them can beat slow attack speed with a dps number that is not even five digits. My current build, with normal attack speed and 10.5k dps, which I have already claimed to be very slow in practice, is better than what your best minds can conceive under these new changes.
So now, the new tier-stacked melee belongs to glass cannons? Alkatraz will continue to reign supreme over all, and anyone who isn't a warrior or knight will have to abandon the concept completely. Because they chose survivability. The defensive downside of any melee build is that you have to get very close to the enemy to do good damage, which greatly increases your risk of taking damage. People accounting for that defensive weakness is why you do not see many melee builds outside of Alkatraz, Flameshot Hilt, and Braker. And trust me, nobody is going to go for 5000 health with a Salticidae, or -300 health regeneration with a Limbo, regardless of how much damage they may do.
I did not pick Flameshot Hilt to be an unkillable monster, I picked it because it is the ultimate middle ground. Something slow and steady, with no gambles, no extremes. And as I have made very clear, it is not without its limitations. Perhaps on Saturday, I will restate this series of arguments when my voice is scheduled to be heard. But while I wait, perhaps one or more of you all can explain why my long and personal experience with tier-stacked melee builds of several kinds is objectively wrong?

 

To everyone in page 32-34

According to our testing and feedbacks, vampiric currently have the below problems

1. Life Steal potency
As the vampiric archetype, life steal items are not significant or potent enough in the archetype. This is mainly due to fluffing of IDs causing some archetypes to suffer from lower trait representation (aka less trait IDs are represented due to too many IDs).

2. No Intel spell reliance
Due to the archetype not supporting intelligence for spellcasting, while the mana and spell damage can be high (and in fact, we overcompensated for it), the spell potency is lacking behind some of the other combos like Paladin and Anima. The melee damage is also not a particular focus of vampiric so it is sort of in the weird middle ground right now.

As to the mana steal attack speed thing, the IM team do not support a particular attack speed being strong or weaker in mana steal. In general, we believe it is more a perspective thing and if there is a difference in actual statistics it is not significant to cause a major imbalance. While we also have our own set of internal statistics, we think community have their own ways and solutions and we do not support or deny any of those research, but we do encourage investigating to these mechanics, it is fun in its own way.

As to builds in wars, I have to agree that the item balance caters more to boss fights and mob fights more than wars. There is probably a difference between warring and normal build usage and we would love to reach out to the warring community to see how we can factor those more in the future.

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I think everyone, including me, would try their best to become unkillable monsters in an MMORPG. That is the point of being powerful with build making and the essence of an MMORPG, to become powerful. However, there has to be rules and balance to it. Everyone should have equal rights to become unkillable monsters in their own way, and not just conform to rainbow slap spell spam, and that is the reason of this update.

If you are looking for a Flameshot build, I believe some of the builders can help you. Tier stacking fire is still possible if you go off-meta and be careful enough, but I believe something else might suit Flameshot better. And hey, maybe other items suit your ultimate middle ground idea as well instead of a build that offers you big defense and tier stacking 6 tiers like previously, thats more like an ultimate high ground.

 

You oughta start rethinking that then lol, everyone supports the idea that ls/ms are much stronger at slower attack speeds. Maybe if ls/ms actually were only 4 second intervals and not chances to proc it would be different. Slower speeds allow you to be a lot more agile, you can go in for a quick hit with super slow and proc ms/ls or you can wail for a while and get it with faster speeds. You're able to apply your melee dps is a significantly more convenient way at slower speeds. I and lot of people have brought up how that atlas change killed divzer, basically impossible to activate steals with it now unless you risk your life wailing on one mob for a while, even then that is inefficient compared to slower speeds from my experience. You wouldn't know though because you haven't played in a while.

 

hey psst

I think we've already had two people saying higher attack speeds are as good or even better for wars, and I can definitely see that.

While we're at a point like this, i think it'd be a good idea to remind everyone of this sentence from the changelog post:

do actually nominate people who have some experience with class builds, not just people who agree with your viewpoints.

 

Whoa whoa whoa. I stated that my Flameshot Hilt build has normal attack speed. That's +3 tiers. I wouldn't be complaining so much about this nerf if a fucking +6 tier attack speed Flameshot Hilt build existed without the aid of crafted items.

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And thank you for the build, this has given me a very good idea of my options.

 

Dang I used to say the same thing to Selvut 2 years ago before I got scouted into the IM team, I guess karma has finally come back to bite me at the back.

Ye using crafted items to break away from archetypes is also something we want to incentivise experience builders to do, I've seen some amazing things made from the builders and pretty sure only more will come from the community.

 

So from what I can gather, the point of the update was to remove the "meta". A) You can't remove the concept of a meta completely, since people will always go for the most efficient of builds, and thus, always keeping a "meta" in check


Also the reason for removing the meta was to provide player freedom from what I can gather.(Please correct me if I'm wrong on this one.)

So what was the point of buffing/nerfing certain items to make them fit a certain playstyle, and make people use them in a certain manner, thus decreasing player freedom?

 

Since I seem to be ignored, I will ask again:
Will the item revamp force us to reroll all our stuff? Or will the updates automatically occur once the revamp arrives?

 

I think it will happen automatically. If you had to reroll it, whats the point, people would just not reroll and keep the same items.

 

Yeah no, item updates dont work like that.

Back when gavel came out and I believe some updates further in, when items got changed, the ones already ingame were sometimes reset to unidentified and you had to Re-ID them.

 

this has already been fixed
all new stats added to an item will be rolled automatically and keeping the other stats the same (or else there would have been things like superfast lunar spine)

 

You will not need to roll/reroll all your items like Gavel. We are also looking into ideas to mechanics to make the implementation of this major update much smoother and have less impact on players. However, as mechanic changes are not IM's jurisdiction, here's to hoping the higher up comes up with something cool so everyone can have a better time. We of the IM Team of course will be the first to announce this to everyone if there are any changes to mechanics regarding these issues.

 

The goal of this update is not to remove a meta. That's straight up impossible and we're aware of that. People will always opt for the most optimized way of playing the game, but this update aims to bring multiple playstyles that isn't just spellspam, tier melee or hybrid to have some breathing room. It allows other build types to be successful while maintaining previously preferred styles. Dissolving the concept of a meta in a game like this is impossible but we can aim to diversify it and allow other builds some room to shine.

Again, not removing the meta. That's a silly idea and one that can't reasonably be carried out. It's allowing more things to creep into viability that isn't just 3 (already limited) build types, but rather 10+ of them.

As has been mentioned by Silver, player freedom or creativity (for those looking to optimize) does not come from a lack of restrictions. At any point where there are no restrictions on what can be used together in what manner, only the most optimal or strongest items will be used. The years leading to now prove that. There'd no reason to use a raw melee build if tier melee directly outshone it. No one would use ultra glass builds because ultra glass never accomplished something that sustainable spell spam could not. There are a good few examples but just take a look throughout the builds posted. A significant amount, if not the majority, of them or their playstyles would have previously just never worked due to lack of support and lack of restrictions.

 

hey divzer you can still build mr

quite easily in fact

https://wynndata.tk/s/745fia

 

Missing all the lifesteal.